Death penalty for Apostasy?

[BeyondQabil]

so you claim to know Islam and interpret qur'an better than Mua'dh ibn Jabal (ra) and Imam Ali (ra)? what arrogance

La ikra fi deen is for non muslims born outside Islam not murtadeen, stop misinterpreting qur;'an

One day you'll be a Christian

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

Isis terrorist,
Are u saying Hadith is holier than Quran? Are you saying Hadith is protected from falsehood???

[Leftist]

We done had this discussion before; on at least two different threads, and I done dropped serious knowledge on both threads, but these motherfaaraxs ain't about the learning, they about the dogma, the blinder the better.

Yes, the punishment for apostasy is death in Islam.

No, it is not and never has been. Let me repeat that: Apostasy was NEVER punishable by death. People came into Islam and left Islam right in Madeenah, during the Prophet's era as well as that of Abu Bakar. Not once was apostasy punished with death.

What, unfortunately, is unable to penetrate your stubborn literalists skulls is that the GRAND TREASON is what's punishable by death. That is what the various ahaadith are referring to. When someone who was a Muslim, spies on behalf of a foreign power, or fights against the Muslim state, that and only that is what's punishable by death, because it is a criminal act of treason.

There is no intrinsic need for a logical explanation for each law, since the wisdom we see behind a law is not the reason why the law was given to us nor the reason why we should accept it and obey it

Yes, there is am absolute need for a logical explanation for any and all aspects of Islam, including the hudood laws. In the Quraan, we're constantly exhorted to think RATIONALLY and LOGICALLY and to QUESTION and to CHALLENGE. Out of the all the major faith-traditions in the world, Islam is almost uniquely cerebral, a deen of the Caql. Yet literalists want us to blindly accept religious dogma(stone lovers!; chop-chop thieves!) without exercising our God-given Caql. Why? "bikows there is no intrinsic need for it yacni". Akhi Please. You don't know what you're talking about. I don't need a hadith or an ayah to tell me that slavery is an immoral abomination that must be eradicated root & stem. My Ebbe-given FITRA automatically tells me that. And so when I see a "fadeelatu shaykh" on some bullshit tip like "slavery is xalaal, innit"....I can tell him he's full of shit and back it up with daleel, weliba.

If there is "no intrinsic need for a logical explanation", then we would be like Suufis who "take things on faith" and frown on "logical reasoning"; or the Shiica who believe in the various khuraafaat they believe in because "my ayatollah told me so" <---- Fuck that. And "my ayatollah told me so" is no different than "my shaykh told me so"

However, this is not the duty of any/every Muslim to kill anyone they find becoming an apostate, rather the Islamic caliphate should do that.

Lol. What Caliphate, fam? Whatchu tam'bout, Willis?

No such thing as a Islamic Caliphate after the Khulafaa Rashiduun.

Ummayads/Abbasids = Ay-Rab dictatorships.
Ottomans= Tuur-kick dictatorships

And so on and so forth. So where exactly in history is this Islamic Caliphate that applies hudood laws judiciously and equally? What, you expect me to allow a murderer and a theif like Mucaawiya Ina Sufyaan to apply hudood laws?

This renders your point null and void. But how about this....how about NOBODY kills NOBODY and we follow the quranic ayah: There is no compulsion in religion......Can we do that? Or is that too much to ask?

Moreover, it is not that the person is killed right away, rather He/she is given 3 days to clear any Misconceptions developed about Islam. There's something called a process not running around chopping heads off.

lol@process. double-lol@3 days. Why not make it 5 days, broski? Or how about a week. Let'

Process, you say? A process developed by who? carried out by who? The same niggaz who spent a coupla centuries massacring each other based on sectarian(ethnic and religious) beefs?

Thanks, but no thanks. My eyes knows chaotic bullshit when it sees it, and the only business I'll have with that "process" is to eradicate it, root & stem. You wanna kill someone because they used their Ebbe-given Caqli and their Ebbe-given Free Will to arrive to a voluntary decision to leave Islam? Sorry, bro, I'mma have to eradicate that "process" right quick, yacni.

So, basically, anyone who apostates can lie outright and say they've returned to the faith. Get out of jail free card.

Encouraging fraud and lying now, are we? Islam is a deen of truth and forthrightness, and here you are exploiting a perceived loophole. Like "heeeey, it's not really death-the-apostate, it's more like a flimsy law that anybody can circumvent". So much for your "textual interpretation"

Tell me: Fa'man shaa'a fal yu'min wa'man shaa'a fal yakfur <---------- aayadaas intee ka galee?, wamaa yataratabu calayhaa(and what derives from it), or do you need to call a Shaykh with PHd in "textual interpretation"?

[FAH1223]

Leftist, its true though.

That's how people get out of the apostate punishment. They lie and remain hidden while amongst the Muslims. They are literally munafiqeen.

Its funny, some under cover atheist kid went to Mecca during Hajj and put up a pic praising atheism at the Kaaba. I bet he won't ever show his face though

You can reject the hadith if you want buts its pretty clear and authentic.

And like I said at the end of my post, the huduud laws are deterrents . They are part of the tool kit. They aren't supposed to be used that much. In fact, they can't be because it is extremely hard to prove instances of apostasy, adultery, and other issues because these laws don't punish what's in the heart but outward actions (in case of adultery with 4 sound witnesses who saw the act) such as open apostasy which includes stuff like causing a ruckus in the community with their corruption

[Shirib]

No one cares about what you do in your private life, just don't turn into the likes of Ayan Hersi

[Shirib]

Mr. Leftist, I think you should temper your ego, and not hurl insults at the companions of our Prophet saw.

btw, for all those arguing there's differences of opinion in the school of law, for what punishment should be, and entire books of fiqh written on the issue. How about y'all go read those and come back with the wisdom behind the various rulings and why they were chosen.

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar, Leftist made me happy by choosing the truth manifested in quran and sunnah!!!
Akhi leftist by Allah is there not a hadith about new convert to islam from ahlu Najran who apostated saying stuff like " Muhammad(pbuh) brought nothing(something like that)". He returned to his people in Najran , died there and was buried. The earth did not accept him and threw out his dead body everytime. If death penalty is right for apostates why did the prophet sallallahu aleyhi wassalam not execute him??!

How can we take contradicting hadiths written down 200years after sahaba above quran? That is insane!


Grandpakhanis, the hadith about Imam Ali aleyhi salaam is actually insult on Imam Ali a.s! The hadith indirectly says Ali a.s was ignorant about quran and sunnah, also ignorant about the fact that no one can be executed by burning!! That hadith is fabricated by the haters of ahlu bayt to portray Ali a.s as ignorant one who is corrected by Ibn abbas a.s! While we know how much the prophet Sallallahu aleyhi wa alihi wassalam praised Ali a.s calling him the gateway to knowledge!

So in light of loving ahlubayt i reject that hadith because i believe Ali a.s was more knowledgeable of the deen than ibn abbas a.s was! And he was more closer to the prophet salallahu aleyhi wassalam than any other sahabi except shaykhain abu bakr siddiq aleyhi salaam and umar aleyhi salaam.

[grandpakhalif]

Why isn't Leftist banned for insulting Uncle of the believers Mucawiyah ibn Suyan (RA)? This forum disgusts me

[jalaaludin5]

Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar, Leftist made me happy by choosing the truth manifested in quran and sunnah!!!
Akhi leftist by Allah is there not a hadith about new convert to islam from ahlu Najran who apostated saying stuff like " Muhammad(pbuh) brought nothing(something like that)". He returned to his people in Najran , died there and was buried. The earth did not accept him and threw out his dead body everytime. If death penalty is right for apostates why did the prophet sallallahu aleyhi wassalam not execute him??!

How can we take contradicting hadiths written down 200years after sahaba above quran? That is insane!


Grandpakhanis, the hadith about Imam Ali aleyhi salaam is actually insult on Imam Ali a.s! The hadith indirectly says Ali a.s was ignorant about quran and sunnah, also ignorant about the fact that no one can be executed by burning!! That hadith is fabricated by the haters of ahlu bayt to portray Ali a.s as ignorant one who is corrected by Ibn abbas a.s! While we know how much the prophet Sallallahu aleyhi wa alihi wassalam praised Ali a.s calling him the gateway to knowledge!

praising that atheist in the closet Leftist.

Your heading the same road as Beenale1 but how long is the question> how long>



So in light of loving ahlubayt i reject that hadith because i believe Ali a.s was more knowledgeable of the deen than ibn abbas a.s was! And he was more closer to the prophet salallahu aleyhi wassalam than any other sahabi except shaykhain abu bakr siddiq aleyhi salaam and umar aleyhi salaam.

Your heading down the same road as beenale1.

How long is the question? how long?

[DR-YALAXOOW]

We done had this discussion before; on at least two different threads, and I done dropped serious knowledge on both threads, but these motherfaaraxs ain't about the learning, they about the dogma, the blinder the better.

Yes, the punishment for apostasy is death in Islam.

No, it is not and never has been. Let me repeat that: Apostasy was NEVER punishable by death. People came into Islam and left Islam right in Madeenah, during the Prophet's era as well as that of Abu Bakar. Not once was apostasy punished with death.

What, unfortunately, is unable to penetrate your stubborn literalists skulls is that the GRAND TREASON is what's punishable by death. That is what the various ahaadith are referring to. When someone who was a Muslim, spies on behalf of a foreign power, or fights against the Muslim state, that and only that is what's punishable by death, because it is a criminal act of treason.

There is no intrinsic need for a logical explanation for each law, since the wisdom we see behind a law is not the reason why the law was given to us nor the reason why we should accept it and obey it

Yes, there is am absolute need for a logical explanation for any and all aspects of Islam, including the hudood laws. In the Quraan, we're constantly exhorted to think RATIONALLY and LOGICALLY and to QUESTION and to CHALLENGE. Out of the all the major faith-traditions in the world, Islam is almost uniquely cerebral, a deen of the Caql. Yet literalists want us to blindly accept religious dogma(stone lovers!; chop-chop thieves!) without exercising our God-given Caql. Why? "bikows there is no intrinsic need for it yacni". Akhi Please. You don't know what you're talking about. I don't need a hadith or an ayah to tell me that slavery is an immoral abomination that must be eradicated root & stem. My Ebbe-given FITRA automatically tells me that. And so when I see a "fadeelatu shaykh" on some bullshit tip like "slavery is xalaal, innit"....I can tell him he's full of shit and back it up with daleel, weliba.

If there is "no intrinsic need for a logical explanation", then we would be like Suufis who "take things on faith" and frown on "logical reasoning"; or the Shiica who believe in the various khuraafaat they believe in because "my ayatollah told me so" <---- Fuck that. And "my ayatollah told me so" is no different than "my shaykh told me so"

However, this is not the duty of any/every Muslim to kill anyone they find becoming an apostate, rather the Islamic caliphate should do that.

Lol. What Caliphate, fam? Whatchu tam'bout, Willis?

No such thing as a Islamic Caliphate after the Khulafaa Rashiduun.

Ummayads/Abbasids = Ay-Rab dictatorships.
Ottomans= Tuur-kick dictatorships

And so on and so forth. So where exactly in history is this Islamic Caliphate that applies hudood laws judiciously and equally? What, you expect me to allow a murderer and a theif like Mucaawiya Ina Sufyaan to apply hudood laws?

This renders your point null and void. But how about this....how about NOBODY kills NOBODY and we follow the quranic ayah: There is no compulsion in religion......Can we do that? Or is that too much to ask?

Moreover, it is not that the person is killed right away, rather He/she is given 3 days to clear any Misconceptions developed about Islam. There's something called a process not running around chopping heads off.

lol@process. double-lol@3 days. Why not make it 5 days, broski? Or how about a week. Let'

Process, you say? A process developed by who? carried out by who? The same niggaz who spent a coupla centuries massacring each other based on sectarian(ethnic and religious) beefs?

Thanks, but no thanks. My eyes knows chaotic bullshit when it sees it, and the only business I'll have with that "process" is to eradicate it, root & stem. You wanna kill someone because they used their Ebbe-given Caqli and their Ebbe-given Free Will to arrive to a voluntary decision to leave Islam? Sorry, bro, I'mma have to eradicate that "process" right quick, yacni.

So, basically, anyone who apostates can lie outright and say they've returned to the faith. Get out of jail free card.

Encouraging fraud and lying now, are we? Islam is a deen of truth and forthrightness, and here you are exploiting a perceived loophole. Like "heeeey, it's not really death-the-apostate, it's more like a flimsy law that anybody can circumvent". So much for your "textual interpretation"

Tell me: Fa'man shaa'a fal yu'min wa'man shaa'a fal yakfur <---------- aayadaas intee ka galee?, wamaa yataratabu calayhaa(and what derives from it), or do you need to call a Shaykh with PHd in "textual interpretation"?

preach preach sheikh leftist.. oow sheikh leftist giude us to the light of truethness.. iam 100% sure that athiest secular people have much much higher IQ than thiests..

[0sman]

I think anyone who wants to kill someone because the said someone left certain religion should be killed in the most barbaric and merciless form of killing, that's what I think.

[Jove]

Salman Rushie and Ayan Hirsi Ali are laughing at Muslims. The so-called "death penalty for apostasy" is a brilliant marketing strategy for Western intellectuals.

[inaXasan]

The fact that there is even a debate on whether or not to kill a person because he left the religion is in itself mind-boggling.

I am also truly shocked. You'd actually take a life because someone doesn't agree with you? it is a sick mentality belonging to the babaric middle ages not the 21st century.

people leave Christianity , criticize it and say that it's wrong , and choose other faiths/no faiths and yet no one is thinking of killing a person for doing those things.

what examples do you show others when you have people discussing these things. no wonder there are so many negative stereotypes and people leaving Islam

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

Salman Rushie and Ayan Hirsi Ali are laughing at Muslims. The so-called "death penalty for apostasy" is a brilliant marketing strategy for Western intellectuals.

Exacly

A belief that does not exist in quran and authentic authentic hadiths.