Abtirsi chronology

[Amira143]

Hmm A white man trying to keep somalis busy with qabil

[SultanOrder]

Why are people threatened by James Dahl? So what if he is curious about Somali lineages. Everyone can have a different interest, which leads to exploring new avenues and finding new knowledge. I know Somalis that are interested in the Kings of Europe, so what is wrong with a Canadian interested in our History?

James Dahl, the names that are missing for example on the Ugaas Sharmarke lineage can be found on your Abtiris website, so why did you not include them

Ps why did you choose 30 years as the generation? Most people in the world didn't even have a life expectancy past 30 something.

[Khalid Ali]

Somalis and their shaki there are white folks who are in to starwars into Ancient Arabs and there are some who are interested in the horn of africa particularly Somalis, nothing wrong with that i welcome james to explore Somalis and their lineages the more documented on Somalis the better really. Europeans have written on Somalis for the last century and Somalis love to quote their books. i dont usually agree with PO but he is right on this

Keep it going james

[thegoodshepherd]

Ps why did you choose 30 years as the generation? Most people in the world didn't even have a life expectancy past 30 something.

most of these guys probably died before they were even 45 probably.
I mean, the life expectancy in Somalia today is only about 53 for men.

[James Dahl]

Why are people threatened by James Dahl? So what if he is curious about Somali lineages. Everyone can have a different interest, which leads to exploring new avenues and finding new knowledge. I know Somalis that are interested in the Kings of Europe, so what is wrong with a Canadian interested in our History?

James Dahl, the names that are missing for example on the Ugaas Sharmarke lineage can be found on your Abtiris website, so why did you not include them

Ps why did you choose 30 years as the generation? Most people in the world didn't even have a life expectancy past 30 something.

I think I included the whole lineage for Ugaas Sharmaarke that I have, though maybe mine is incomplete? Yuusuf Mataan lived about 200-400 years before Ugaas Sharmaarke (exact date or number of generations impossible to say) so there must be a gap between Khalaf Xuseen and Yuusuf Mataan, this is based on the abtirsi of both Amir Nuur Mujahid and Garaad Axmed Xiraabo, both of whom are mentioned in the Futux al-Xabasha so we know when they lived and when they died.

30 years per generation seems to be the average Somali generation. 25 is too small, there are even bigger generation gaps if you use 25 year generations, since many of these fathers are historically attested so we know when they lived.

[Jabuutawi]

Abtirsi kulaha. I opened the link and when I saw nothing about the original Somali, Dir Nation, I closed out. Those names on your spreadsheet are foreign to me, no different than say a Zulu with his abtirsi. Get the real and original abtirsi -- Dir Nation, then your work about Somalis maybe complete, though I doubt it.

[James Dahl]

Abtirsi kulaha. I opened the link and when I saw nothing about the original Somali, Dir Nation, I closed out. Those names on your spreadsheet are foreign to me, no different than say a Zulu with his abtirsi. Get the real and original abtirsi -- Dir Nation, then your work about Somalis maybe complete, though I doubt it.

Not a slight against Dir, I just don't have as much information. I will include Samaroon and Ciise for comparison purposes.

[Typhoon]

james

its not reer nuur its ina nuur
there are two marexaan nuurs, one is nuur ugaas diini and the other is ina nuur (emir nuur)

james since we have the abtirisi of emiir nuur (ina nuur) and hiraabe why not include ahmed gurey (reer garaad)
where is sheik abadir the great grandfather of emir nuur, imam ahmed gurey and garaad hirabe

james i welcome your interest in marexaan clan history, our history tends to be more historical then the peasantry somalis.
james do you have some records regarding sheik abadirs hajj, are there any documents referring to his stay in arabia

I believe the turks have great documents about the mareaan in the ottoman archives

james you are earning your honorary marexaan clan membership, well done sir

[jalaaludin5]

[James Dahl]

I do have an abtirsi for Axmed Gurey but you're probably not going to like it

[Jabuutawi]

So Ahmed Gurey was Hawiye?

Someone asked you on a prior post, how did you authenticate your abtirsi? Somali oral history is littered with embellishing the truth, are there any tangible proof to your assertions?

Personal matter: Are you married to a Somali woman?

[James Dahl]

So Ahmed Gurey was Hawiye?

Someone asked you on a prior post, how did you authenticate your abtirsi? Somali oral history is littered with embellishing the truth, are there any tangible proof to your assertions?

Personal matter: Are you married to a Somali woman?

My wife is Australian of Cornish ancestry, so : not that I'm aware of

Ahmed Gurey's home town is the Karanle traditional capital, only the Karanle version of his ancestry includes all his relatives, and his Karanle subclan is Balaw, which traditional writers mention that he was Balaw. Basically the alternative hypotheses don't match historical evidence, but the Karanle tradition does.

[Jabuutawi]

James,

You probably covered this, what is the alternative hypothesis you referred to on your prior post? In the 16th century there were hardly any Hawiye living, if at all, in Saylac (Zeila) where Ahmed ibn-Ibrahim al-Ghazi was born. It is more plausible that he was a northern Dir clan or an Afar or even a hybrid between an Arab, Somali and Afar.

[James Dahl]

James,

You probably covered this, what is the alternative hypothesis you referred to on your prior post? In the 16th century there were hardly any Hawiye living, if at all, in Saylac (Zeila) where Ahmed ibn-Ibrahim al-Ghazi was born. It is more plausible that he was a northern Dir clan or an Afar or even a hybrid between an Arab, Somali and Afar.

Who told you he was born in Zeila his father in law ruled Zeila (Maxfuuz), his father ruled Hobad, which is near Babile. As for Zeila, all clans lived in Zeila, it was the economic center of the north. Ciise and Gadabursi are originally inland clans, they expanded their domains towards the coast when Adal collapsed. Berbera is the original home of the Ajuuraan for instance, and Zeila's population was originally a lot like Mudqisho in that there were a lot of Arab merchants living in the town itself. After Adal collapsed Zeila actually submitted to the Ottoman Empire and was governed by an Arab guy from Hijaz until the Isaaq took over in the 18th century.

The great Dir kingdom was independent of Adal, the Sultanate of Dawaro (Dawaro was between Abyssinia and Adal/Ifat). Hawiye are originally from around the Harar area, in fact Hawiye is buried at Bet Hawiye. Somali clans have moved around a lot over the centuries and where clans currently live isn't much of an indicator. The only reason Hobad is an indicator is because while Karanle still live there, the Futux mentions them living there as well.

[Jabuutawi]

Now you are reaching for straws. By the 16th century clan delineation was pretty much a settled issue in the north. At any event your claim is less probable than mine. Who told you Ciise were an inland clan? Ciise still live on the coast, Saylac and Lughaye. Invariably they also lived within the walls of Saylac town. If someone at the time went few miles outside Saylac, the first Somali clan they would have came in contact were Ciise. Ciise moved from coastal areas all the way to the foothills of Ethiopia's highlands , historically an Ciise territory -- an area the size of West Virginia.