If Puntland isn't happy with SFG, why don't they join SL?

[BeyondQabil]

even i know you are not stupid enough to believe bosaso has better quality of life then hargeisa or higher wages or earnings.
reason why so many kids are tahriibinh in somaliland is unfortuantly they can afford it more then reer somalia including the two majerten gobols, avarage tahriib is about $5k to 8k, your avarage somalia person is straggling to get food let alone such cash, if they had it i garentee you they would tahrib.
your nonsense about somali being either dir or darod has gotten your people no where in the last 30 years were you have been truly found out for how useless you are and the theory futher is evidence that darod is not somali. SNM has been gone for 30 years after it done its job yet darod is still crying about it, stop being victims, the victim card wont work in affrica no liberal in africa.

stick to your 30m a year and stay with your husband mr hawiye

If someone can afford this money, can't he start a business or something?

[mahoka]

even i know you are not stupid enough to believe bosaso has better quality of life then hargeisa or higher wages or earnings.
reason why so many kids are tahriibinh in somaliland is unfortuantly they can afford it more then reer somalia including the two majerten gobols, avarage tahriib is about $5k to 8k, your avarage somalia person is straggling to get food let alone such cash, if they had it i garentee you they would tahrib.
your nonsense about somali being either dir or darod has gotten your people no where in the last 30 years were you have been truly found out for how useless you are and the theory futher is evidence that darod is not somali. SNM has been gone for 30 years after it done its job yet darod is still crying about it, stop being victims, the victim card wont work in affrica no liberal in africa.

stick to your 30m a year and stay with your husband mr hawiye

If someone can afford this money, can't he start a business or something?

Bro these people don't think that far ahead, they believe money grows on trees in Europe

[TheblueNwhite]

Lol at the logic. Now we are bragging about why we tahriib. Only in Snet you will encounter delusional individuals like the ones in this thread.

[Arcturus]

Everything will be debated but the most crucial details!

1. How do a former sovereign state[SL] and the provinces of another sovereign state[PL] unite? Considering SL has lost it's international recognition.

In the improbable scenario that SL was to entertain such a proposition:

- SL and PL political association would have to conform to set international laws and charters primarily AU-charter on statehood which is diametrically opposed to the alteration of colonial borders.
- Within the political structure of the SFG the above proposition would still require 51% advocacy from within the SF-Parliament.
- SW-State might appreciate such proposition as this would assure a larger share in Konfur-Federal-Government.
- This proposition would relegate Jubaland to a position forcing their hand to consider using the PL precedence to join Kenya/Ethiopia.
- Once such a precedence is set there is nothing to prevent SW-State becoming the 10th-Federal state of Ethiopia.

Konfuria would be left with 3.5-Gobols

The problem with setting precedence is that neither Kenya nor Ethiopia or for that matter no African state would be secure.

2. There is a secondary proposition that has been on the stove since 2009. This proposition was championed by the likes of Professor Afyri Cilmi of Qadar university and the author of “Understanding the Somalia conflagration" he is assisted by professor Abdi Samater author of "An African Miracle" with a host of less then distinguished fan base they believe in a NORTH-SOUTH confederacy that would require a Norther SL & PL merger creating a 9 northern regions block Vs 9 southern regions. They believe in the relocation of the capital to north.

- This proposition does not resolve the errors inherent in the creation of the 1960 intended union.

3. The 1960 UNION failed, unions form and dissolve however the Somali-Union facilitated the annexing of one of the member states by the other. There is simply no other classification that befits how the somali union was conducted. It does not matter how long the failed and illegitimate 1960Union more appropriately the 1960Annexation is retained on life support the TRUST will never be restored.

- The only means to restore the LOVE and TRUST that was a prerequisite to the initiation of the 1960 intended Union is to grant both former states equal power of negotiation. There is only one way to achieve that and to restore the FAITH of both populations.
- A Political-Hostage CANNOT be expected to entertain any dialogue or debate to simply accept permanent residence in political-captivity.
- The Status quo is far more detrimental to HOSTILE-member then the HOSTAGE-member and 24years is amble evidence of the continuous deterioration of the HOSTILE-member-State.
- TWO-STATE proposition is the only means to pave the way for the necessary peace and improved relations between the two population so that future generation may explore the potential benefits of association.

[TheCadaanGuy]

lol@discussion on tahriib

Seriously though, I'm beginning to believe you guys are actually for real. You guys would rather to kill yourself than to work together for betterment of Somalis. SMH.

Everything will be debated but the most crucial details!

1. How do a former sovereign state[SL] and the provinces of another sovereign state[PL] unite? Considering SL has lost it's international recognition.

In the improbable scenario that SL was to entertain such a proposition:

- SL and PL political association would have to conform to set international laws and charters primarily AU-charter on statehood which is diametrically opposed to the alteration of colonial borders.
- Within the political structure of the SFG the above proposition would still require 51% advocacy from within the SF-Parliament.
- SW-State might appreciate such proposition as this would assure a larger share in Konfur-Federal-Government.
- This proposition would relegate Jubaland to a position forcing their hand to consider using the PL precedence to join Kenya/Ethiopia.
- Once such a precedence is set there is nothing to prevent SW-State becoming the 10th-Federal state of Ethiopia.

Konfuria would be left with 3.5-Gobols

The problem with setting precedence is that neither Kenya nor Ethiopia or for that matter no African state would be secure.

2. There is a secondary proposition that has been on the stove since 2009. This proposition was championed by the likes of Professor Afyri Cilmi of Qadar university and the author of “Understanding the Somalia conflagration" he is assisted by professor Abdi Samater author of "An African Miracle" with a host of less then distinguished fan base they believe in a NORTH-SOUTH confederacy that would require a Norther SL & PL merger creating a 9 northern regions block Vs 9 southern regions. They believe in the relocation of the capital to north.

- This proposition does not resolve the errors inherent in the creation of the 1960 intended union.

3. The 1960 UNION failed, unions form and dissolve however the Somali-Union facilitated the annexing of one of the member states by the other. There is simply no other classification that befits how the somali union was conducted. It does not matter how long the failed and illegitimate 1960Union more appropriately the 1960Annexation is retained on life support the TRUST will never be restored.

- The only means to restore the LOVE and TRUST that was a prerequisite to the initiation of the 1960 intended Union is to grant both former states equal power of negotiation. There is only one way to achieve that and to restore the FAITH of both populations.
- A Political-Hostage CANNOT be expected to entertain any dialogue or debate to simply accept permanent residence in political-captivity.
- The Status quo is far more detrimental to HOSTILE-member then the HOSTAGE-member and 24years is amble evidence of the continuous deterioration of the HOSTILE-member-State.
- TWO-STATE proposition is the only means to pave the way for the necessary peace and improved relations between the two population so that future generation may explore the potential benefits of association.

1:

a) Says who? They don't have to conform to AU charter. By the way, AU charter actually says they're opposed to colonialism in all forms. SL and PL getting together does just exactly that. By the way, recognition from AU is worthless. Western/Arab/Asian world recognition is where it's at.

b) SFG can still claim PL as their own land just like it does with SL. However if SL+PL is one, it will be bigger than SFG. SFG won't be too pleased that half of the country opposes them. They will do everything they can do to change to situation short of going to war, which is likely to be bending over to SL+PL's demands.

C & D & F) Unlikely that Kenya would accept them. They want to have influence in JL but not the other way around. Joining with Ethiopia is not likely either. JL and its own citizens know that they would be treated even worse if they're Ethiopian/Kenyan citizen. If anything, joining with SL is far more likely especially if PL joins them already. It'll mean SFG is now sandwiched between SL. International community will now ignore SFG because it's not legitimate government any more at this point.

Also, as you mentioned, Kenya and Ethiopia won't be safe any more now Al-Shabaab is on their turf.

2 & 3) Here we go, you're talking about past and applying logic from the past to this situation. Even if this argument is relevant (it isn't), it's already flawed right from start. The reason why this argument is flawed? Because this union actually worked and we would have been living in this union had Barre not been in power.

This is 2015. We do what we can to fix the situation. Mourning over what we did in the past won't help. It's time we learnt the lesson.

Also, PL joining SL, then JL joining SL and then SFG joining SL doesn't contradict any of what you said in the last paragraph.

[GIJaamac]

Not sure why you guys love to argue endlessly but PL and SL are not comparable.

In terms of economy they sre not even close. SL has bigger budget than Mogadishu let alone PL region. PL is only $30m but SL is $250m.

In terms of comparing Hargeisa to Bosasso, that's none sense. Bosasso has to visit get half the buildings, assets, airport, population, etc before it can compare itself.

Today Hargeisa is leading even Mogadishu. Bosasso is in the same league as Baidhaba, Beledweyne. Even Kismayo is bigger and wealthier.

In what world ? Don't embarrass yourself kid.



vs

[mahoka]

dp

[mahoka]

Not sure why you guys love to argue endlessly but PL and SL are not comparable.

In terms of economy they sre not even close. SL has bigger budget than Mogadishu let alone PL region. PL is only $30m but SL is $250m.

In terms of comparing Hargeisa to Bosasso, that's none sense. Bosasso has to visit get half the buildings, assets, airport, population, etc before it can compare itself.

Today Hargeisa is leading even Mogadishu. Bosasso is in the same league as Baidhaba, Beledweyne. Even Kismayo is bigger and wealthier.

In what world ? Don't embarrass yourself kid.



vs

Bro when was the last time Reer Muqdisho actually done anything for themselves. the aid is meant for the whole country not just Beesha hawiye

Hargeisa was completely destroyed 25 years ago, not a single building was standing including mosques. Mogadishu only had few bullet holes, more aid then then city in Africa. Next year the airport will start which will be the most beautiful in East Africa



Vs


I don't like using starving people to make a point but since you are using people doing tahriib then no problem

[GIJaamac]

It just shows how dumb you are to compare the damage for a city at 2 decades of war to a town which got bombed couple of times. Dude i don't care about SL or PL but keep Xamar, which is light years ahead of both of your useless ass, out of your discussion.
If not, then prepare for reality checks.

[TheCadaanGuy]

Guys, guys. Stop ruining this thread debating whose country is better.

[mahoka]

It just shows how dumb you are to compare the damage for a city at 2 decades of war to a town which got bombed couple of times. Dude i don't care about SL or PL but keep Xamar, which is light years ahead of both of your useless ass, out of your discussion.
If not, then prepare for reality checks.

dont get angry bro, bit of harmless fadhi ku dirir. as long as reer mogadisho or puntland or hargeisa are trying to improve their lands then it is good for all

btw as i said mogadisho saw no heavy weapons. only the ak47 or odd rpg, hargeisa has been through bombing aerial, tanks shelling and mortar fire . this completely destroyed the city and no building was left standing structure so they had to rebuild everything with in 20 years. you cant tell me a city like mogadisho which only has bullet holes on the walls is comparable.

reer hargeisa have built everything for themselves. as i said the up coming airport is designed by a somaliland firm, the funding will be by local businessmen, reer somaliland and government.

[Arcturus]

1:

a) Says who? They don't have to conform to AU charter. By the way, AU charter actually says they're opposed to colonialism in all forms. SL and PL getting together does just exactly that. By the way, recognition from AU is worthless. Western/Arab/Asian world recognition is where it's at.
Have you read the AU-charter? and even if we are to ignore that charter the Western/arab/asian world only recognizes the Government in moqadishu.

b) SFG can still claim PL as their own land just like it does with SL. However if SL+PL is one, it will be bigger than SFG. SFG won't be too pleased that half of the country opposes them. They will do everything they can do to change to situation short of going to war, which is likely to be bending over to SL+PL's demands.
Even if the government in muqdisho was in exile they would still have the final say. Your approach might cause the collapse of government and a NEW TFG not solution. Why is it more difficult for you to accept correction of past errors in order to assure potential centuries of tranquility. The problem is not sustaining a "Unity" it is the perspective that all else must be sacrificed to retain "Unity" in name. A Union of two states is pound by contractual agreement i.e "acts of union" The Somali union failed to even successfully conduct a proper act of union, what you have been led to believe was a union was in fact an annexation. Compare Somaliland's act of union Vs Somalia's Atto di Unioni. A Legally binding contract is one which both vested parties agree to and sign... the two countries each proposed a different contract and neither of the contracts were ever both signed by both parties. In addition how can a Country even pass an act of union when Somaliland's Union Law was approved 31 Jan 1961.

C & D & F) Unlikely that Kenya would accept them. They want to have influence in JL but not the other way around. Joining with Ethiopia is not likely either. JL and its own citizens know that they would be treated even worse if they're Ethiopian/Kenyan citizen. If anything, joining with SL is far more likely especially if PL joins them already. It'll mean SFG is now sandwiched between SL. International community will now ignore SFG because it's not legitimate government any more at this point.
So all the Federations of Somalia join with SL in the hope that SFG also joins with SL? How is that different from where we are right now and the last 55years?

Also, as you mentioned, Kenya and Ethiopia won't be safe any more now Al-Shabaab is on their turf.
I don't believe Shabab is in either Kenya or Ethiopia!

2 & 3) Here we go, you're talking about past and applying logic from the past to this situation. Even if this argument is relevant (it isn't), it's already flawed right from start. The reason why this argument is flawed? Because this union actually worked and we would have been living in this union had Barre not been in power.
Sorry there was never a Union instead an annexation occurred, also sorry but Barre's arrival prevented a Civil war in 1969 following the assassination abdirashid ali sharmarke. His assassination came after he declared his intention to reform the Union(annexation) which was totally controlled by a duopoly. In 55years there was 21years of dictatorship and 34years of a duopoly.

This is 2015. We do what we can to fix the situation. Mourning over what we did in the past won't help. It's time we learnt the lesson.
He who leans from the past does not persist in prolonging illegitimate historical contracts that only imprison. It is time to reverse the ignorant acts of our grand fathers to give the future generations a chance at normality

Also, PL joining SL, then JL joining SL and then SFG joining SL doesn't contradict any of what you said in the last paragraph.

There is no trust to facilitate your proposition, it is wiser to dissolve the 1960annexation and promote two mode reconciliation

- Intra-state: Somalia-Italiano state[SIS] to bolster peace and intra-unity. Same for Somaliland.
- Inter-state: Between two equal state to facilitate cooperation, partnership in security and promote trade.


Or let us keep the status quo of the last 24years for another 24years?

siamese twins MUST ONE DIE?

[skywalker25]

Some regions have benefited from their long stablity, some of them who are not that old have had monopoly on other regions livestock exports until recently

But with this govt, any federal region/state can be ahead of sl in the next 5 years bc sl depends on hawala companies for its currency as it has no recognized legal tender and even these hawala companies r dealing with dollar!

no money comes out for the lack of circulation and they cant supply it

not every thing about stability!

Today, in mogadishu we have a lot of banks with international formal banking infrastructure, this will extend to all the regions

Gov has new monetory policy

And btw govts local income is just from mogadishu ($6m per month)

looooool

Sahal your AMISOM property. Once you get of there nuts, then we speak about income and expenditure.....

[PUNTMAN]

It just shows how dumb you are to compare the damage for a city at 2 decades of war to a town which got bombed couple of times. Dude i don't care about SL or PL but keep Xamar, which is light years ahead of both of your useless ass, out of your discussion.
If not, then prepare for reality checks.

dont get angry bro, bit of harmless fadhi ku dirir. as long as reer mogadisho or puntland or hargeisa are trying to improve their lands then it is good for all

btw as i said mogadisho saw no heavy weapons. only the ak47 or odd rpg, hargeisa has been through bombing aerial, tanks shelling and mortar fire . this completely destroyed the city and no building was left standing structure so they had to rebuild everything with in 20 years. you cant tell me a city like mogadisho which only has bullet holes on the walls is comparable.

reer hargeisa have built everything for themselves. as i said the up coming airport is designed by a somaliland firm, the funding will be by local businessmen, reer somaliland and government.

When God was giving out brains you must have been the last in the queue. War kaan waa doqon. You are a humiliation to your people. Are you seriously comparing one of biggest cities in East africa tragic civil war which literally destroyed it. From genocides of darood civilians. To american black hawk downs bombing it. To the crazy abgaal and habar gidir fighting each other with all the weapons from Siyaad bare goverment against one another. Literally destroying once beautiful city, district by district. And then 20 years of warlords. Plus islamic courts war and ethopians and then al shabab. You are one delusion idiot to think a few bombings a couple of times on small town is even comparable of how mogadishu was destroyed.

[mahoka]

It just shows how dumb you are to compare the damage for a city at 2 decades of war to a town which got bombed couple of times. Dude i don't care about SL or PL but keep Xamar, which is light years ahead of both of your useless ass, out of your discussion.
If not, then prepare for reality checks.

dont get angry bro, bit of harmless fadhi ku dirir. as long as reer mogadisho or puntland or hargeisa are trying to improve their lands then it is good for all

btw as i said mogadisho saw no heavy weapons. only the ak47 or odd rpg, hargeisa has been through bombing aerial, tanks shelling and mortar fire . this completely destroyed the city and no building was left standing structure so they had to rebuild everything with in 20 years. you cant tell me a city like mogadisho which only has bullet holes on the walls is comparable.

reer hargeisa have built everything for themselves. as i said the up coming airport is designed by a somaliland firm, the funding will be by local businessmen, reer somaliland and government.

When God was giving out brains you must have been the last in the queue. War kaan waa doqon. You are a humiliation to your people. Are you seriously comparing one of biggest cities in East africa tragic civil war which literally destroyed it. From genocides of darood civilians. To american black hawk downs bombing it. To the crazy abgaal and habar gidir fighting each other with all the weapons from Siyaad bare goverment against one another. Literally destroying once beautiful city, district by district. And then 20 years of warlords. Plus islamic courts war and ethopians and then al shabab. You are one delusion idiot to think a few bombings a couple of times on small town is even comparable of how mogadishu was destroyed.

Ayan hirsi