zoomalis

[salool]

Jobbar du på Ikea lager?

Är det Mostafa du pratar om? Sen när är han daarood.

Har ingen aning om vad du snackar om.

Du vet exakt vad jag pratar om men jag tänker inte säga mer.

[zidane88]

I agree with Warsheekh, the minute Farah or xaliimo get degree or promoted managerial position the more they disassociate from their community.

[Itrah]

Long term wise dude is securing any hope of getting replaced by a Somali. He sounds like a self-loathing typical AA whose afraid of the come ups' of his own people, with that pre-determined mindset of Somalis being lazy, wouldn't be surprised if he fired a handful in the past.

This reminded me of this.

Key & Peele are funny as hell.

[AbkoowDhiblaawe]

Jobbar du på Ikea lager?

Är det Mostafa du pratar om? Sen när är han daarood.

Har ingen aning om vad du snackar om.

Du vet exakt vad jag pratar om men jag tänker inte säga mer.

Loool. Du får tro på vad du vill haha

[TheMightyNomad]

I agree with Warsheekh, the minute Farah or xaliimo get degree or promoted managerial position the more they disassociate from their community.

The only ones who do that are the self loathing generation of youth born in the west. The have zero qabil identity or loyalty or even somali loyalty for that matter and solely because of their self loathing nature the reason they want to be successful is so they can run away from other somalis.

This shit does not exist with any other generation or somalis in africa or middel east only with American/European somalis.

[zidane88]

The M_ Nomad, it is true, but there are old- schools that behave the way I mentioned though they are few.

[SahanGalbeed]

Anigu waxaan ku haystay nin ka aragti duwaan zoomali-da kale , laakin waxa xaggan ka muuqata inaanay arrintaasi dhab ahayn. Cid walba la isku "compare"-gareeyo , nin walba na la iskaga ma daydo .
Hadday" Incompetence , ineptitude ", iyo hadday tuuganimo iyo dhagar noqoto ba , horta anigu waxaan arkay iney Zoomalida siiba reer koonfureed-ka ahi isku qariyan .Taasi waa xaaran waana qalad Waxyaalo aan iska alifayo ma'aha wallahi. Boqol jeer baan boqol nin oo kale duwan ku xaanaqay for something that had to do with "conduct" . Muxu yeelaya Zoomaliga reer konfureedku ? Mid aad isku qolo tihin oo isaga ay asaaxab yihin buu ku soo diraya . Marna ba is odhan maayo behaviour-kaaga ayay wax ka si yihin e wuxu is leeyahay malaha qaabil buu kugu nacaya. Labada maarka is raaciso na , waabay kula yaabayaan , Ilaahow tuula jooga ilbax is mooday inaga qabo
Bal dib isugu yara noqo oday .

[Xisab]

The only ones who do that are the self loathing generation of youth born in the west. The have zero qabil identity or loyalty or even somali loyalty for that matter and solely because of their self loathing nature the reason they want to be successful is so they can run away from other somalis.

This shit does not exist with any other generation or somalis in africa or middel east only with American/European somalis.

My observations have been that there are more people in the previous generation with self hate than before. If there was anything that caused this generation to be self haters, it would be the constant bashing of other Somalis by their parents and masking it as qabil bashing. For example, when you are constantly calling another clan "bantus", attacking their dark skin, "fuuto madoobe", etc. even when your own clan has the same characteristics, only a fool would be surprised if the children of that family end up hating all Somalis in the end and their daughters end up marrying the first non-Somali who is interested in them.

[GAMES]

SahanGalbeed, su'aal. Whats your opinion about males becoming nurses?

[TheMightyNomad]

The only ones who do that are the self loathing generation of youth born in the west. The have zero qabil identity or loyalty or even somali loyalty for that matter and solely because of their self loathing nature the reason they want to be successful is so they can run away from other somalis.

This shit does not exist with any other generation or somalis in africa or middel east only with American/European somalis.

My observations have been that there are more people in the previous generation with self hate than before. If there was anything that caused this generation to be self haters, it would be the constant bashing of other Somalis by their parents and masking it as qabil bashing. For example, when you are constantly calling another clan "bantus", attacking their dark skin, "fuuto madoobe", etc. even when your own clan has the same characteristics, only a fool would be surprised if the children of that family end up hating all Somalis in the end and their daughters end up marrying the first non-Somali who is interested in them.

Not really, i dont see how clan competition has anything to do with self hate. Fuuto madoobe? is an insult? with somalis culture for nicknaming people and everyone based on their Physical appearance , cant see how that is bashing. They call other somalis madoobe,maarin. Af madow, af weyne and all sorts of crap.

following your logic Somalis would have more love for their own clan and hate other clans. They would still be proud somalis cause they love themselves and their clan. So i dont see any correlation between the two in the first place.

Clan bashing results in self hate? now please draw a correlation between the two and demonstrate for me. If you cannot do that it is a baseless claim.

Most of the western youth have no cultural awareness , thus no knowledge or recognition of clan soo how can they pick up on this supposedly ''Clan bashing'' You are speaking of?

When they have no understanding of clan to begin with? even if we follow your logic somalis follow his own clan and associate with his own clan more soo than other somalis. That wouldnt be self hate. Cuz he at end of the day associates with other somalis.

My guess You are one of those self haters saaxiib, you only commented only to try and legitimize it.

The only difference is that Self haters live to emulate others seek acceptance from others, because they shun who they are, because they define themselve based on the traits and habits of foreigners.

[Xisab]

Not really, i dont see how clan competition has anything to do with self hate. Fuuto madoobe? is an insult? with somalis culture for nicknaming people and everyone based on their Physical appearance , cant see how that is bashing. They call other somalis madoobe,maarin. Af madow, af weyne and all sorts of crap.

It's not about clan competition. It's about the delusion that certain clans have certain looks. It would be one thing if you could actually tell Somalis apart based on clan on alone, but that is not the case. In fact, the delicious irony is that most of the people who ridicule the "general appearance" of a clan have that same exact phenotype.

following your logic Somalis would have more love for their own clan and hate other clans. They would still be proud somalis cause they love themselves and their clan. So i dont see any correlation between the two in the first place.

No, that does not result from following my logic. There are other factors at play here that need to be analyzed. Somali youth when they are in school are taught about other nations and about ideas such as globalization and internationalism. They see people who have killed each other in record numbers that are of complete different ethnic groups coming together to form stable governments. They then look at their in own country that is poised to balkanize all thanks to this primitive and barbaric tribalism. You can't blame Somali youth in the west for giving up on this country. There is absolutely no economic, sociological, and political reason to believe that Somalia can ever become stable in the way that it is.

Also, the youth who you would define as "proud Somalis" because they are proud of clan, do not at all see themselves as Somalis. They see themselves as Somalilanders, Puntlanders, Jubbalanders, etc. and do not at all believe in the concept of "Somalia". In fact, most are offended by such an archaic notion. Thus, why not be consistent and call these people "self haters"?

Clan bashing results in self hate? now please draw a correlation between the two and demonstrate for me. If you cannot do that it is a baseless claim.

Correlation? Unfortunately I have no hard data that quantifies self hate as a function of clan bashing. So no correlation can be drawn. All I can make are reasonable statements that are not blatantly inconsistent with reality, and I'd guess most rational people here would agree that self hate in the diaspora is the result of parenting and the onus falls completely on the parents. I'd also further assume that many here would agree that the constant bashing of a clan based on their stereotypical appearance and mannerisms would have a negative impact on their children when they end up learning there is no shortage of people who share that same stereotypical appearance and even mannerisms within their own clan. But, again, I have no empirical data wherein I could do some kind of curve fit using Matlab and present my conclusions and findings to win some argument on the internet. But, this also raises another issue that is plaguing the diaspora. We don't have any statistics about how the Somali diaspora is doing in any metric. As a result of this, we can never make any definitive statements nor come up with tangible solutions to perceived problems that likely do not exist.

Most of the western youth have no cultural awareness , thus no knowledge or recognition of clan soo how can they pick up on this supposedly ''Clan bashing'' You are speaking of?


When they have no understanding of clan to begin with? even if we follow your logic somalis follow his own clan and associate with his own clan more soo than other somalis. That wouldnt be self hate. Cuz he at end of the day associates with other somalis.

I have no idea whether there is any truth to what you say. But, I can definitively say that most western youth at least know their clan. In fact, they tend to even know their sub sub sub clan. With that said, the western youth from what I've observed tend to bifurcate into the two categories I mentioned earlier: youth who want nothing to do with Somalia or its culture, or youth who are only interested in their own clan and clan fiefdom. Again, since there is a lack of hard empirical data, I have absolutely no idea what I am observing is some local trend that is easily buried by large contingent of diaspora youth who don't know their clan or clan affiliation. All I can say definitively is that, from what I've observed in my community and the diaspora communities in a couple of countries, clan bashing is at the very least a primary contributor to this self hate you see among the new generation. You seem to conveniently forget that clan bashing itself is still the bashing of other Somalis.

My guess You are one of those self haters saaxiib, you only commented only to try and legitimize it.

There is no need to make it personal, my friend. Ad-hominem only weakens your position.

The only difference is that Self haters live to emulate others seek acceptance from others, because they shun who they are, because they define themselve based on the traits and habits of foreigners.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But, unfortunately, we are not discussing how self haters act and carry themselves. Rather, we seem to be discussing the origin of that self hatred, or so that's what I'd assumed...

[Rabshoole]

Long term wise dude is securing any hope of getting replaced by a Somali. He sounds like a self-loathing typical AA whose afraid of the come ups' of his own people, with that pre-determined mindset of Somalis being lazy, wouldn't be surprised if he fired a handful in the past.

This reminded me of this.

They killed that sketch

[TheMightyNomad]

It's not about clan competition. It's about the delusion that certain clans have certain looks. It would be one thing if you could actually tell Somalis apart based on clan on alone, but that is not the case. In fact, the delicious irony is that most of the people who ridicule the "general appearance" of a clan have that same exact phenotype.

they dont say this because certain clans have certain look, when they call specific clans bantus. its because they live in the south among the bantus. Its not litteratly they look a certain way , its a joke!

I might even add Digil and mirifle clan has indeed intermarried bantus down south its that obvious. There is no difference in appearance between certain clans that are unmixed

You can look no further to see how somalis in somalia embrace their diferences in appearance.

The Somali love of 'rude' nicknames
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26354143

You see its only rude in the western eyes, not in our eyes. Since perfectly normal and embraced. care to guess why?

Because people in somalia do not define themselves based on the traits, norms and habits of europeans and uphold that as the standard in which they should conduct themselves in.

No, that does not result from following my logic. There are other factors at play here that need to be analyzed. Somali youth when they are in school are taught about other nations and about ideas such as globalization and internationalism. They see people who have killed each other in record numbers that are of complete different ethnic groups coming together to form stable governments. They then look at their in own country that is poised to balkanize all thanks to this primitive and barbaric tribalism. You can't blame Somali youth in the west for giving up on this country. There is absolutely no economic, sociological, and political reason to believe that Somalia can ever become stable in the way that it is.

No, thats not true you my friend dont know history people with same religion ethnic groups and language has killed eachother for centuries , even europe, asia and including america its nothing new. Nor is it something abnormal i could list them all.

The only difference is those later groups end up working things out, not dehumanized themselves like you are doing right now or demonized themselves either. Or dvelve in a spewel self loathing in which they try to legitimize.

But what is amazing is how japanese samurais/ninjas making a culture out of murdering eachother is romantized and even cast of as heroes.
how europeans are viewed as freedom fighers for justic and liberation for slaughering eachother.

but when it comes to somalis we are savages and barbaric.

yeah i can blame the youth and the factors involved to shape this , If you cant see the difference in that logic is because you have accepted a western reality and define yourselves and your people based on their traits and habits.

That is the definition self loathing my firend

Also, the youth who you would define as "proud Somalis" because they are proud of clan, do not at all see themselves as Somalis. They see themselves as Somalilanders, Puntlanders, Jubbalanders, etc. and do not at all believe in the concept of "Somalia". In fact, most are offended by such an archaic notion. Thus, why not be consistent and call these people "self haters"?

They see themselves as somali, the thing with you are trying to create a cognitive dissonance. Because to be a clannism is overlapped with somalinism and is indeed imparicly part of being a somali.

What i rate as proud somali is someone who loves his homeland, wether you come from bari, juba, waaqoyi and someone who thinks and behaves like a somali culturally.

When have i ever called someone self hater for being proud of his clan?

Now all this puntland,jubbaland and somaliland rubbish is a foreing invention of course im going to be against it. Many historians of Somalia are convinced that Tribal community political ideologies only developed in contact with the European ‘thinking about tribes’ which the missionaries and colonial officers brought to Somalia.

So naturally i am against it, but dont see how Qabil states correlates to Self hate, it would certaintly correlate to them being more loyal to their clan states and proud of their clan rather than to the TFG, but most certaintly not self hate.

Correlation? Unfortunately I have no hard data that quantifies self hate as a function of clan bashing. So no correlation can be drawn. All I can make are reasonable statements that are not blatantly inconsistent with reality, and I'd guess most rational people here would agree that self hate in the diaspora is the result of parenting and the onus falls completely on the parents. I'd also further assume that many here would agree that the constant bashing of a clan based on their stereotypical appearance and mannerisms would have a negative impact on their children when they end up learning there is no shortage of people who share that same stereotypical appearance and even mannerisms within their own clan. But, again, I have no empirical data wherein I could do some kind of curve fit using Matlab and present my conclusions and findings to win some argument on the internet. But, this also raises another issue that is plaguing the diaspora. We don't have any statistics about how the Somali diaspora is doing in any metric. As a result of this, we can never make any definitive statements nor come up with tangible solutions to perceived problems that likely do not exist.

i rest my case!

I have no idea whether there is any truth to what you say. But, I can definitively say that most western youth at least know their clan. In fact, they tend to even know their sub sub sub clan. With that said, the western youth from what I've observed tend to bifurcate into the two categories I mentioned earlier: youth who want nothing to do with Somalia or its culture, or youth who are only interested in their own clan and clan fiefdom. Again, since there is a lack of hard empirical data, I have absolutely no idea what I am observing is some local trend that is easily buried by large contingent of diaspora youth who don't know their clan or clan affiliation. All I can say definitively is that, from what I've observed in my community and the diaspora communities in a couple of countries, clan bashing is at the very least a primary contributor to this self hate you see among the new generation. You seem to conveniently forget that clan bashing itself is still the bashing of other Somalis.

There is exceptional truth in that, wether they know of their clan is very much different from understanding clan or having awareness of what it actually is. Like i pointed out there is growing generation from what ive seen and heard have no Knowledge of somali clan system or clan poltics or clan competition. That have very little mannerism traits , that is somali.

If that wasnt the case then there shouldnt be Dhaqan Celis programs to begin with.

Can you give me any evidence whatsoever of somali youth waring clan competition or clan bashing or how that has any correlation whatsoever with self hatred like you said above you have no hard data for it.

My guess You are one of those self haters saaxiib, you only commented only to try and legitimize it.

There is no need to make it personal, my friend. Ad-hominem only weakens your position.

its an example, its me making a claim , in which i demonstrate down below of why i think you fit that category and how that is examplatory how and what is fueling the self loathing generation of western youth.

for instance

The only difference is that Self haters live to emulate others seek acceptance from others, because they shun who they are, because they define themselve based on the traits and habits of foreigners.

Which is true, as you have proven here. a weak ad hominem attack would be to make a claim and not support with arguments, demonstrations and facts. Using you yourself as an example would be perfect in demonstrating the kind of Self loathing , dehumanization and demonization of somalis are dvelving into and try to legitimize it based on opinions,reality and world view of foreigners.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But, unfortunately, we are not discussing how self haters act and carry themselves. Rather, we seem to be discussing the origin of that self hatred, or so that's what I'd assumed...

You cannot speak for others or project yourself into what others think. If you dont agree then give me an argument or demonstrate how that is wrong. Yes we are discussing self haters and The phenomena of self loathing in the somali diaspora ''Western Youth''. So this is very relevant saaxiib.

The whole topic was about how self haters emerge and how they conduct themselves. correct me if im wrong i get the hint that you are speaking from a personal standpoint yourself, since there is no correlation or evidence in what you are suggesting in the first place

[LobsterUnit]

My guess You are one of those self haters saaxiib, you only commented only to try and legitimize it.

qorta ka jar.

[Xisab]

they dont say this because certain clans have certain look, when they call specific clans bantus. its because they live in the south among the bantus. Its not litteratly they look a certain way , its a joke!

It's actually not a joke. People actually do have genuine hatred for other tribes to the point where they laugh at their suffering and famines and disassociating themselves from those "monkeys" in front of other non Somalis. Tell me, was it kaftan to laugh and ridicule the people who were dying in the famine in the south all because of their clan? Is it kaftan to laugh and ridicule the atrocities committed by the Ethiopians against the Ogaden people?

If you claim it is culture, then such backward behavior that is only suitable for life in the jungle should be collectively shunned if you ever hope to build any kind of state. People would argue FGM is also part and parcel of Somali culture. Will you defend that too as a valid practice?

No, thats not true you my friend dont know history people with same religion ethnic groups and language has killed eachother for centuries , even europe, asia and including america its nothing new. Nor is it something abnormal i could list them all.

The only difference is those later groups end up working things out, not dehumanized themselves like you are doing right now or demonized themselves either. Or dvelve in a spewel self loathing in which they try to legitimize.

My point exactly. They didn't fight each other for 24+ years and enlist the aid of hostile foreigners, such as the Ethiopians, to fight against an opposing clan. Zoomalis are the only people who will gladly be enslaved by a foreign enemy just so they can stick it to rival clans. With most other peoples, however, you will see them uniting in the face of a foreign threat even if they have had bad blood between them for thousands of ears.

but when it comes to somalis we are savages and barbaric.

I'm merely echoing how the world sees you people. I have no opinion of Somalis myself and in the long run what happens to Somalia doesn't affect me. Where I'm at is my permanent home. Funny logic you have there, though. Since I am not in favor of 24+ years of civil war and clan fiefdoms/balkanization and the inevitable enslavement/recolonization of Somalis/Somalia by foreign powers, that must mean I am a self hater? But you, for apparently supporting this status quo, are in touch with your cultural roots? You are precisely the reason why Somalia is doomed for the foreseeable future.

yeah i can blame the youth and the factors involved to shape this , If you cant see the difference in that logic is because you have accepted a western reality and define yourselves and your people based on their traits and habits.

That is the definition self loathing my firend

Blame whoever you want. It's funny how you claim I'm operating in a western reality all because I like to look at the bigger picture and analyze the overall forces at play. The fact of the matter is, self hatred does not spontaneously appear from the vacuum of space. If there is indeed a phenomenon of self hatred among the diaspora youth, which there is no hard evidence that would support that other than anecdotes, then it was clearly passed onto them by their parents the so-called proud generation that was responsible for the destruction of the government and continues to be responsible for its failed state. That is actually the most logical explanation as to where this alleged self hatred comes from, assuming this phenomenon is indeed as widespread as you claim it.

They see themselves as somali, the thing with you are trying to create a cognitive dissonance. Because to be a clannism is overlapped with somalinism and is indeed imparicly part of being a somali.

This is just flat out wrong. Somali youth who are taught tribalism and to define themselves by their tribes emphatically do not see themselves as Somali. They are disgusted by such notions as "Somalinimo" and to be referred to as "Somali". They believe in the secession of their tribal enclave and want to completely disassociate themselves from the Somali label. Unless you agree with them, that they are indeed not Somali and have nothing with the Somali way of life, then you would have no choice but to call them self haters. That is, of course, if you are actually consistent in your principles.

At least those self haters assimilating in the west are not the ones standing in the way of a unified and centralized Somali government. It is these youth who will take up arms and fight another several decades against you for their right to tribal secession. Perhaps you need to get your priorities in order, sxb.

i rest my case!

There was no "case" to begin with.

There is exceptional truth in that, wether they know of their clan is very much different from understanding clan or having awareness of what it actually is. Like i pointed out there is growing generation from what ive seen and heard have no Knowledge of somali clan system or clan poltics or clan competition. That have very little mannerism traits , that is somali.

Which is ideal, at least in the minds of most rational people. I will say that I have no problem with clans and knowing who you are. It's this backwards system "clan politics" and "clan competition" that shouldn't be taught to children. Well, that is, if you ever want the country to ever be stable.

Can you give me any evidence whatsoever of somali youth waring clan competition or clan bashing or how that has any correlation whatsoever with self hatred like you said above you have no hard data for it.

Just as you have no evidence for this phenomenon of self-hatred to begin with, right? Pointing to "Dhaqan celis" programs is not valid evidence, but could be symptomatic of paranoia of the elder Somali generation. I can easily turn your entire argument on its head by demanding the same level of hard evidence from you just as you're demanding of me essentially a nature publication. I agreed that, at least anecdotally, there is a phenomenon of self hatred among diaspora youth from what I've observed. However, that is not evidence for anything and until there are studies that definitively show this and are published in the peer reviewed literature, there really is no evidence to support this claim.

In truth, all I'm doing are making reasonable claims that are consistent with everyone's experiences and don't require such a high standard of evidence since no one's worldview is being radically altered here. You can disagree with me all you like, but I feel most rationally minded people would be inclined to agree with me.

Which is true, as you have proven here. a weak ad hominem attack would be to make a claim and not support with arguments, demonstrations and facts. Using you yourself as an example would be perfect in demonstrating the kind of Self loathing , dehumanization and demonization of somalis are dvelving into and try to legitimize it based on opinions,reality and world view of foreigners.

How very expected. Unfortunately, you seem to be incapable of having a level-headed debate without getting emotional and trying to defame your opponent without actually deconstructing their argument in a logical manner. I don't blame you as it's the easier way out. However, I'm not interested in carrying this discussion further if all you are going to do is resort to is ad-hominem. Only weak minds are captivated by such petty behavior.