Slavery & our Reformation imperative: "I lower my head in shame"

[gegiroor]

Leftist

I am wondering why do u insist on Islam Reformation when u, like Ayaan Hirsi have "Left" Islam long time ago. I mean, should you really care? And if u do, Why? Have you asked yourself that question?

Spot on, Basra.

Who is he trying to fool?

[bareento]

Greetings Mujaahid Leftist!

I follow your threads on reformation with greatest interest.
But had it ever occuedr to u that Islam cannot be reformed...its too rigid it will break.
christians when faced with acute contradictions...have humanity to fell on...as their religion, at least its basic tenets make no distinction
between human beings.
Judaism has the ethnicity card...YAHWE , after a whole lot of propagaanda for thousand of years downsized his ambition
to the hebrews...ie defending ISRAEL as much as he can.
THE SAME IS TRUE FOR OTHER RELIGIONS...ethnicity like in hinduism, shinto etc or humanity like in buddhism

But wat can Islam fell on? humanity? nope!!! as it make clear distinction between believers and none
believers who r destined to be killed or to pay jizya.
ethnicity? no...it will be downsized to arab religion...seen how weak arabs r no non arab will accept it.

One can apply your very same argument to the prophet as someone pointed out in this thread!
i didnt sleep for three days the day I learned that the Prophet killed the father, brothers and husband of jewish lady and slept with her
the very same day on the spot! he was also in slave trade.

As for those hyped up junks called early muslim leaderss , I agree with you they r the worst scums that ever disgraced the surface of the Earth.
When they conquered North Africa, they brought about a million slaves from present day Tunisia and algeria (as per their recordings).
Whenever they had differences they solved it in a very disgusting manner ...think about the 10000 virgins around Madina that they raped

So my brother, it has no meaning to reform Islam...because in order for Islam to continue it shoud not change or questionned


B.

[gegiroor]

He [the Prophet Muhammad [peace and blessings of Allah be upon him] - Ed.] then told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her free, and he offered her the choice between remaining a Jewess and returning to her people or entering Islam and becoming his wife. "I choose God and His Messenger," she said; and they were married at the first halt on the homeward march. (Martin Lings, Muhammad: His Life Based On The Earliest Sources (George Allen & Unwin, 1983), p. 269, Cited in http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/index.ph ... -muhammadp)

The marriage to Safiyyah(R) has a political significance as well, as it helps to reduce hostilities and cement alliances. John L. Esposito notes that

As was customary for Arab chiefs, many were political marriages to cement alliances. Others were marriages to the widows of his companions who had fallen in combat and were in need of protection. (John L. Esposito, Islam: The Straight Path, pp. 19-20, Cited in http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/index.ph ... -muhammadp)


This significant act of marrying Safiyyah(R) was indeed a great honour for her, for this not only preserved her dignity, it also prevented her from becoming a slave. Haykal notes that:

The Prophet granted her freedom and then married her, following the examples of great conquerors who married the daughters and wives of the kings whom they had conquered, partly in order to alleviate their tragedy and partly to preserve their dignity. (Muhammad Husayn Haykal, The Life of Muhammad (North American Trust Publications, 1976), p. 373, Cited in http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/index.ph ... -muhammadp)

With marrying Safiyyah, the Prophet aimed at ending the enmity and hostility adopted by the Jews against him and against Islam, all the way long, but alas they went on with their hatred for Islam and for the Prophet simply because it was their natural disposition to be malicious and stubborn. ( See Muhammad M. as-Sawwaf, Zawjat ar-Rasul at-Tahirat wa Hikmat T'adudihinn, pp. 76-79, Cited in Muhammad Fathi Mus'ad, The Wives of the Prophet Muhammad: Their Strives and Their Lives, p.168)

http://www.answering-christianity.com/b ... rophet.htm

[Hyperactive]

why you guys hold your horses and ask him how he is planning to reform what is plan and what we have to do to go behind him??

do we have to reject quran and Sunnah? what exactly we reject and what exactly to keep it. who determine what we discharge and what we keep, what is the qualification , other than I am angry at Arabs, 1500 years ago and the current?

emotions never good reason to base our decisions.

I am very few people I ever know who is very very open minded and can entertain any ideas even if it's against my core believes. though you couldn't even make me listen to you leave alone to entertain.

angry people never good debaters.

[gegiroor]

Hyper, their reform is Islam bashing. It is insecurity that the so-called Ex-Muslims have towards Islam. And it is part of a major campaign that is unleashed against Islam. Remember they're not Muslims, but at the same time they want Islam changed

This site is definitely becoming a forum where the attacks against Islam is promoted. It seems the so-called Ex-Muslims have been given a carte blanche to attack Sahaba (May Allah be pleased with them all), the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and the other religious scholars.

It is a fact that it has taken this turn.

[Hyperactive]

first, he did not say he left islam. let us not assume, bro.

I understood, he is trying to weaken our fundamentals , to put doubts but I cannot bring myself to call him none muslim unless he say that himself.

[Grant]

Does Hamza Yusuf have potential as an Islamic Martin Luther?

https://sandala.org/

One of his things is showing how Daesh is not Islamic.

"Yusuf has taken a stance against religious justifications for terrorist attacks.[32] He described the 9/11 attacks as "an act of 'mass murder, pure and simple'". Condemning the attacks, he has also stated "Islam was hijacked ... on that plane as an innocent victim".[14]


Jordan's Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre currently places him 36th on its list of the top 500 most influential Muslims in the world.[33] The magazine Egypt Today described him as a kind of theological rock star, "the Elvis Presley of western Muslims."[34] In its 2016 edition Yusuf is described "as one of the foremost authorities on Islam outside of the Muslim world" by The 500 Most Influential Muslims, edited by John Esposito and Ibrahim Kalin.[35]"

Thoughts on reforming Islam:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/ ... ming-islam

[jalaaludin5]

Does Hamza Yusuf have potential as an Islamic Martin Luther?

https://sandala.org/

One of his things is showing how Daesh is not Islamic.

"Yusuf has taken a stance against religious justifications for terrorist attacks.[32] He described the 9/11 attacks as "an act of 'mass murder, pure and simple'". Condemning the attacks, he has also stated "Islam was hijacked ... on that plane as an innocent victim".[14]
Influence

Jordan's Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre currently places him 36th on its list of the top 500 most influential Muslims in the world.[33] The magazine Egypt Today described him as a kind of theological rock star, "the Elvis Presley of western Muslims."[34] In its 2016 edition Yusuf is described "as one of the foremost authorities on Islam outside of the Muslim world" by The 500 Most Influential Muslims, edited by John Esposito and Ibrahim Kalin.[35]"

Thoughts on reforming Islam:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/ ... ming-islam

Sheikh Hamza is one of my favourite Scholar and his take on the subject shouldn't be mentioned in the same topic as this leftist character. They are ocean apart.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qY17d4ZhY8M
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[gegiroor]

Hyper, any person who attacks the Prophet (pbuh), the sahaba (ra to all of them), promotes what Allah has forbidden, and persistently attacks Islamic scholars is outside of the Islam's fold. That is my understanding.

It was not only Leftist but Bareento and others as well.

Grant, why is that non-Muslims have an obsession with Islam and are running with the bogus reformation? Do you think you can fool the mainstream Muslims? Besides, every reasonable American knows that 9/11 was an inside job, the wars against Iraq and Afghanistan were unjustified, and DAESH is a front for Saudi, Turkish, and Qatari intelligence, and those countries are front for the Establishment that runs the West. And our faith can't be attributed to these conspiracies, and anyone who runs with the bogus 'reformation'.who claims to be Muslim is just lunatic who has no understanding in Islam. You ain't fooling us, people.

[Hyperactive]

I didn't see insulting prophet mohammed, he may applied things you assume is an insult. but insulting sahaba doesn't equal kufur, needless to say insulting muslims is thamb.

[Hyperactive]

I see here little to do with haq but to prove other wrong. just calm down guys and debate it respectful manners.

I found no point debating leftist cause he is an angry and he based every thing on emotions and his understanding.

[jalaaludin5]

I didn't see insulting prophet mohammed, he may applied things you assume is an insult. but insulting sahaba doesn't equal kufur, needless to say insulting muslims is thamb.

awoow you are a good man but leftist sheekadiisu was beyond benefit of the doubt.

This guy's attitude towards Islam and the Qur'an is one of absolute disdain. His insult of the Sahabah during the time of the Prophet (saw) and to claim that the Muslims of today are better than them is Insulting the Prophet Indirectly. His desperate and ignorant yet so full of himself. A pretentious attention seeker who is playing up to an audience other than us (somalinet).
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[Grant]

Gegi,

"Yusuf has taken a stance against religious justifications for terrorist attacks.[32] He described the 9/11 attacks as "an act of 'mass murder, pure and simple'". Condemning the attacks, he has also stated "Islam was hijacked ... on that plane as an innocent victim".[14]

Some Islamic scholars are ready to deal with reality. The narrative you preach was mouthed here by Arabman, and is brittle.

[Hyperactive]

God only knows who is better or worse and it's just assumption from his side. we shouldn't react in everything he says. let us see how we are better? we aren't even live in same era or even culture?

how we determine who is better when none of us lives in the same environments and struggle?

you cannot compare 1500 years ago to 2016. same as you cannot compare our forefather's nomad to us. I cannot even imagine I could kill for wall or land. I feel it's savage. I am better? no my circumstances are better and easier that I don't need to resort to these kind of wars.

he is not comparing apples to apples but apples and onions.

[jalaaludin5]

God only knows who is better or worse and it's just assumption from his side. we shouldn't react in everything he says. let us see how we are better? we aren't even live in same era or even culture?

how we determine who is better when none of us lives in the same environments and struggle?

you cannot compare 1500 years ago to 2016. same as you cannot compare our forefather's nomad to us. I cannot even imagine I could kill for wall or land. I feel it's savage. I am better? no my circumstances are better and easier that I don't need to resort to these kind of wars.

he is not comparing apples to apples but apples and onions.

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