Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

[whitehartlane]

Actually we could use another said barrel...

What are the chances of said barre having amisom as his personal security? Or even smiling without bloody someone telling a joke? Not even knock knock!!!

[burcaawi14]

Actually we could use another said barrel...

What are the chances of said barre having amisom as his personal security? Or even smiling without bloody someone telling a joke? Not even knock knock!!!

Siyaad barre was powerful because the Russians wanted him to be, nothing more nothing less. People need a serious dose of reality, the guy was a fokin joke who built 1 city, 1 roadway and a few ports in over 20 years yet "we need another siyad barre". Stop setting the bar so low

[Phinks]

Siad Barre was the prick who institutionalised tribalism, lost a war on purpose to purge the military of political opponents, massacred and uprooted thousands of people, accumulated huge debts, destroyed the civil service, killed Islamic scholars because they wounded his pirde....need I go on? He was the individual responsible for planting the seeds of anarchy and disunity in Somalia. Siad Barre was a despot and an ignorant, petty, genocidal illiterate excuse of a man.

To all intents and purposes, Somaliland is doing a 1000% better than Somalia. Maybe you should sort your own house before you post your insincere misguided notion of advice. We are not the ones who's capital is suffering under a African 3rd world occupation and at the same time having an extremist group run amock in our countryside.

The reason he did that was because every god damn clan besides marexaan were out to get the guy. Even the majeerteens ran off to Ethiopia to start rebelling against him. Admit it, it was the majeerteens that started the fitna followed by Isaaq. If you guys were truly going to lead a national resistance campaign, why did you all form your own tribal militias? So you expect me to believe that after everyone started establishing militias along clan lines, that you were fighting for the "people" of Somalia? Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

Let's be honest here, every tribe that rebelled and took up armed resistance against Siad was a power grab for their own clan. Lost the war on purpose? Are you referring to the Ogaden war? Because if you are, you truly are an imbecile. Somali western resistance forces completely dismantled and destroyed the Ethiopian army. We were progressing into Ethiopia at a steady rate. Had it not been for the backstabbing of the Soviet Union and the f-king Yankees, with the backing of Cuban troops, we'd have liberated the Ogaden region by now.


I'm not going to deny the atrocities committed by Siad. He did kill innocent people, including his own darood relatives such as the MJ's by restricting their access to water wells and raping their women. He also specifically targeted the Isaaq because of your affiliation with the rebels. It's wrong no doubt but what did you honestly expect from a man who became corrupted with power? It's really that simple, no need to make things complicated.

One thing I have a problem with you Issaq lot however is your incessant bitching and complaining. At what point will you be a man and move the fuck on? Please stop this bitchy effeminate behaviour. I can understand where you're coming from, he killed innocent people, however, we all suffered. Every Somali at some point suffered from this clusterfuck of a situation. Claiming your suffering only makes the suffering of others obsolete and makes you look disingenuous at best. If you truly cared about the innocent suffering, why didn't Somaliland dispute the Ethiopian invasion of 2006 huh? Why turn the other cheek when they were getting back on their feet?

We can both disagree on many things here. Which is absolutely fine. At the end of the day, we're all entitled to our own opinion, but let me make this very f-king clear mate;

Somaliland/Puntland/Jubbaland etc are all prostitute States for Ethiopia, Europe and the Anglo-world. These very same States enforce the very concept of tribal politics that destroyed our nation. How you can't see this completely baffles me.

These very same Qabiil states would rather fight on the side of Kafirs against their own ethnic kin, any person who is a tribalist is a childish buffoonish imbecile. To my last point,I would rather be under a dictatorship that discriminates against me on the basis of my clan heritage then be a prostitute to the f-king Ethiopians and the west. Fuck you!

[BigBreak]

phinks you dopey cuntt why are you langaab wanlaweyn always on SL's nuts and drag us down to your stinking level which is fufu colonisation of you inbreds

losers cant stand on their own feet whilst winners like SL can

[luis1]

I would rather be under a dictatorship that discriminates against me on the basis of my clan heritage then be a prostitute to the f-king Ethiopians and the west. Fuck you!

Why do you have to insult others to prove your standpoint?

This behaviour does not make sense to me. You should change your attitude.

[Phinks]

phinks you dopey cuntt why are you langaab wanlaweyn always on SL's nuts and drag us down to your stinking level which is fufu colonisation of you inbreds

losers cant stand on their own feet whilst winners like SL can

Waryaa retard;

Throughout this whole thread I criticised every clan. I'm on everyone's case. I'm not singling anyone out handicap yahow.

[Phinks]

I would rather be under a dictatorship that discriminates against me on the basis of my clan heritage then be a prostitute to the f-king Ethiopians and the west. Fuck you!

Why do you have to insult others to prove your standpoint?

This behaviour does not make sense to me. You should change your attitude.

You have to understand that we are literally being occupied by f-king foreign troops. How can you not be enraged at the state of Somalia today? My kin are suffering, if any Somali suffers, I suffer. I just wish we all had this mentality.

[luis1]

You have to understand that we are literally being occupied by f-king foreign troops. How can you not be enraged at the state of Somalia today? My kin are suffering, if any Somali suffers, I suffer. I just wish we all had this mentality.

I can not understand your situation because my country is not ocuppied by a foreign country. I just say that somalis in this forum could understand you better if you do not insult them.

[Rambie]

Siad Barre was the prick who institutionalised tribalism, lost a war on purpose to purge the military of political opponents, massacred and uprooted thousands of people, accumulated huge debts, destroyed the civil service, killed Islamic scholars because they wounded his pirde....need I go on? He was the individual responsible for planting the seeds of anarchy and disunity in Somalia. Siad Barre was a despot and an ignorant, petty, genocidal illiterate excuse of a man.

To all intents and purposes, Somaliland is doing a 1000% better than Somalia. Maybe you should sort your own house before you post your insincere misguided notion of advice. We are not the ones who's capital is suffering under a African 3rd world occupation and at the same time having an extremist group run amock in our countryside.

The reason he did that was because every god damn clan besides marexaan were out to get the guy. Even the majeerteens ran off to Ethiopia to start rebelling against him. Admit it, it was the majeerteens that started the fitna followed by Isaaq. If you guys were truly going to lead a national resistance campaign, why did you all form your own tribal militias? So you expect me to believe that after everyone started establishing militias along clan lines, that you were fighting for the "people" of Somalia? Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

Let's be honest here, every tribe that rebelled and took up armed resistance against Siad was a power grab for their own clan. Lost the war on purpose? Are you referring to the Ogaden war? Because if you are, you truly are an imbecile. Somali western resistance forces completely dismantled and destroyed the Ethiopian army. We were progressing into Ethiopia at a steady rate. Had it not been for the backstabbing of the Soviet Union and the f-king Yankees, with the backing of Cuban troops, we'd have liberated the Ogaden region by now.


I'm not going to deny the atrocities committed by Siad. He did kill innocent people, including his own darood relatives such as the MJ's by restricting their access to water wells and raping their women. He also specifically targeted the Isaaq because of your affiliation with the rebels. It's wrong no doubt but what did you honestly expect from a man who became corrupted with power? It's really that simple, no need to make things complicated.

One thing I have a problem with you Issaq lot however is your incessant bitching and complaining. At what point will you be a man and move the fuck on? Please stop this bitchy effeminate behaviour. I can understand where you're coming from, he killed innocent people, however, we all suffered. Every Somali at some point suffered from this clusterfuck of a situation. Claiming your suffering only makes the suffering of others obsolete and makes you look disingenuous at best. If you truly cared about the innocent suffering, why didn't Somaliland dispute the Ethiopian invasion of 2006 huh? Why turn the other cheek when they were getting back on their feet?

We can both disagree on many things here. Which is absolutely fine. At the end of the day, we're all entitled to our own opinion, but let me make this very f-king clear mate;

Somaliland/Puntland/Jubbaland etc are all prostitute States for Ethiopia, Europe and the Anglo-world. These very same States enforce the very concept of tribal politics that destroyed our nation. How you can't see this completely baffles me.

These very same Qabiil states would rather fight on the side of Kafirs against their own ethnic kin, any person who is a tribalist is a childish buffoonish imbecile. To my last point,I would rather be under a dictatorship that discriminates against me on the basis of my clan heritage then be a prostitute to the f-king Ethiopians and the west. Fuck you!

Phinks,

I think you are misinformed on the Somali history. No body was after Siad Barre in the when he toke the the power from 1969
1978. That's 10 years of iron fist rule which when excluding OG war, was mostly positive. After OG war a group of 500 soldiers
tried to overthrown Siad Barre. Yes, the majority MJ but I can't speak for their motives if it was for greater of Somalia or greed.

However, I can speak for Isaaq motives when they founded SNM. Aftermath of the OG war, a lot of refuges flood into SLAND. The refuges who were largely OG were empowered by the govt to takeover the land and marginalize the local population. The refuges were ordered to beat, loot and kill the local population in southern SLAND & the HAWD area of Ethiopia under many "anti Ethiopian armed movement" most notably, the WSLF.

The abuses lasted 2-3 years until a group of GX & HA diaspora in Saudi Arabia formed decided to take arms against the gov. They moved to UK and officially announced SNM. Now at the beginning, they did tried to include non-Isaaq members like Hawiya & Dir but they had no real influence on the ground & most of them walked out because most of the operations was in SLAND. If you want to check my claims, read I.M Lewis book titled Blood and Bone: The Call of Kinship in Somali Society.

Now as for the Ogaden war, Somalis always like to blow out of proportion and play it like the maskiin guy who was ganged up upon. The vast majority of the fighting on the ground was between Ethiopians and Somalis. There is a great book full of pics just come out last year about OG war. The reason for Somalia's defeat was the poor state and experience of Somali Air force which gave Ethiopia full air superiority and the reliance on false intelligence information by the incompetent Ali Matan, amma making thread about it now.

What I want to tell you is, Siad Barre isn't a maskiin leader who was thrown out duo to jealousy and xasiidnimo.
World is not black & white, as much as you associate apposition movements with it's tribal region that lack nationalism
you must also remember the second name of Kacaan regime, MOD government.

[luis1]

Rambie:

The vast majority of the fighting on the ground was between Ethiopians and Somalis. There is a great book full of pics just come out last year about OG war. The reason for Somalia's defeat was the poor state and experience of Somali Air force which gave Ethiopia full air superiority and the reliance on false intelligence information by the incompetent Ali Matan, amma making thread about it now.

What about the Cuban troops and Soviet advisers?

Their role was decisive to defeat Somalia.

"The Ethiopia-Somalia War of 1977 Revisited
Gebru Tareke


The Suicidal State in Somalia: The Rise and Fall of the Siad Barre Regime
Mohamed Haji Ingiriis

[Rambie]

Rambie:

The vast majority of the fighting on the ground was between Ethiopians and Somalis. There is a great book full of pics just come out last year about OG war. The reason for Somalia's defeat was the poor state and experience of Somali Air force which gave Ethiopia full air superiority and the reliance on false intelligence information by the incompetent Ali Matan, amma making thread about it now.

What about the Cuban troops and Soviet advisers?

Their role was decisive to defeat Somalia.

"The Ethiopia-Somalia War of 1977 Revisited
Gebru Tareke


The Suicidal State in Somalia: The Rise and Fall of the Siad Barre Regime
Mohamed Haji Ingiriis

The weak state of Somali air force + False intelligence + Incompetent commanders and leaders = Defeat of Somalia in OG war.

[luis1]

Wings over Ogaden


Page 56

Ultimately, the massive Cuban-Ethiopian assault combined with heavy aerial bombardment of Somali lines but also the supply lines in and around Hargueisa,caused the breakdown of the Somali Army in Ogaden

Do not forget Cuban troops played a role defeating Somali army,

[Rambie]

Wings over Ogaden


Page 56

Ultimately, the massive Cuban-Ethiopian assault combined with heavy aerial bombardment of Somali lines but also the supply lines in and around Hargueisa,caused the breakdown of the Somali Army in Ogaden

Do not forget Cuban troops played a role defeating Somali army,

Selective reading are we?

Your quote on page 56 when Siad Barre ordered full retreat
of the SNA back to the Somali border. It was describing rapid advances
of Ethiopian-Cuban forces in areas around Jijiga & DireDawa after the order to retreat.

Page 56



Aside from couple bridgaes on the ground, the majority of
Cubans in that war were advisors & pilots. Almost the whole war on the ground
was between Ethiopians and Somalis. They described the Cuban-Yemeni role as 'minor'.


Page 58

[luis1]

Two cuban mechanised brigades, advisors and pilots were enought to defeat Somali army.

The author says:

External intervention decisively shifted the balance of forces and decided the outcome of the war

If you read carefully the book, the Cuban troops are fighting everywhere.

our quote on page 56 when Siad Barre ordered full retreat
of the SNA back to the Somali border. It was describing rapid advances
of Ethiopian-Cuban forces in areas around Jijiga & DireDawa after the order to retreat.

This is not totally correct, the author says:

Ultimately, the massive Cuban-Ethiopian assault combined with heavy aerial bombardment of Somali lines but also the supply lines in and around Hargueisa,caused the breakdown of the Somali Army in Ogaden

Do you really understand english?

[luis1]

The Ethiopia-Somalia War of 1977 Revisited
Author(s): Gebru Tareke

http://nebula.wsimg.com/dd49268a301ff83 ... oworigin=1

You should read the article, it is very interesting.

The dramatic and massive intervention by socialist countries
enabled the Ethiopians to crush and repel the invading army, which never recovered
fully from its stunning defeat

Assessing the Outcome

Was Ethiopian victory or Somali defeat primarily due to Soviet and Cuban intervention,
or did other intrinsic factors influence the eventual outcome of the war?

Without doubt external interference decisively shifted the balance of forces on the
battlefield during the last two months of the conflict. While incompetent leadership
contributed to their failure, eventually the Somalis were crushed by the sheer
weight of numbers and technology. With the arrival of 18,000 Cuban artillerymen,
tank crews, and pilots who undertook and suffered much of the dangerous
combat tasks during the counter-offensive and about 1,500 Soviet military experts
who brought with them a vast amount of armaments, the Somalis stood absolutely
no chance of success. That Cuban-Soviet assistance was decisive in both their
defeat and expulsion is therefore incontrovertible


Cuban-Soviet assistance was decisive