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He is a little sensitive about the discussion he is talking about, but I don't know why he brings it up in any topic I start. I don't even know why he is even sensitive towards me because it was our Gudabirsi friends who explained everything to us.

In all of the different language translations, the participation of Marehan in the saga of Ahmed Gurey cannot be denied.

However, none of the translations corroborate Isaaq's participation. In fact the word "Isaaq" is not found anywhere. There is only the issue of Habar Magaadle, some misnomar for an Isaaq sub-bran that Isaaq do not even use today and probably was a falsification.

Even so, it seems only in an Egyptian translation did Habar Makadoor (a Gudabirsi sub-clan corresponding to the same abtiris mentioned as it has today) become Habar Magaadle. Notice also the Egyptian penchant for the hard "G". Gaameel for camel and Gamal fo Jamal.

This issue was noticed by many historians and the point now is that when the original copy of Shihab ad-Din's original work is found in Gujarat, India and copied online (which would be sooner than late) then we would have a complete proof that Isaaq were never involved in the saga of Ahmed Gurey and only came into history and out of history with during British colonization.

Who cares about what happened in war with concern towards Hirabe. Different things happen in a single day, but the point is Marehan's glorious participation and place in history is not in question---whereas his Isaaq only have relevance in a simple mistranslated written hundreds of years later by an Egyptian having possible stolen the mention of a Gudabirsi sub-clan.

I would be embittered and insecure if I were him too. As for Hiraabe, He was indeed a Chief looking out for the wellbeing of his tol.

French translation of the original Futuh, written in the 1800's. Notice also Pankhurst has translated to "Habar Makdi" (Habar Makadoor-Gudabirsi) the Habar Magaadle in question mistranslated by the Egyptian source the Isaaq's sole claim to importance is based on.



and he writes of the Marehan Chief



Les Somalis fatigues de voir leurs troupeux enleves et leur pays devaste se rendirent aupres de l'Imam ayant a leur tete leur chef Harabuwah (Hirabu). Ainsi, tous les Somalis avec leur chef firent la paix avec l'Imam, une paix parfaite et sincere. A la suite de cela, L'Imam, fit des preparatifs pour une guerre sainte (Jihad); il avait en vue l'Abyssinie. Les Somalis avec leur chef Harabuwah etaient maintenant soumis a son autorite(I).

Translated as:

The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Ali Mataan Xaashi though. The sniveling rat things this is something from hundreds of years ago where a mistranslation can tweak the discussion of history.

Ali Mataan as the first Somali pilot and the father of the Somali airforce being its chief starting from 1960 when we gained independence is not ancient history. Only coming from a dusty, hamlet in the northwestern deserts do you think this is new information.

So what if I celebrate him? Why does it bother you peasant?

^
You're a spineless coward. You got your brother PerfectOrder, who's a moderator on SomaliNet, to ban Ben Dover and now you're replying?

Ben Dover already settled the dispute about Habar Magaadle and you couldn't reply yet now you're regurgitating the same arguments he destroyed.

Go and cry to your brother and tell him to delete this thread as well.

Voltage wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:08 pm He is a little sensitive about the discussion he is talking about, but I don't know why he brings it up in any topic I start. I don't even know why he is even sensitive towards me because it was our Gudabirsi friends who explained everything to us.

In all of the different language translations, the participation of Marehan in the saga of Ahmed Gurey cannot be denied.

However, none of the translations corroborate Isaaq's participation. In fact the word "Isaaq" is not found anywhere. There is only the issue of Habar Magaadle, some misnomar for an Isaaq sub-bran that Isaaq do not even use today and probably was a falsification.

Even so, it seems only in an Egyptian translation did Habar Makadoor (a Gudabirsi sub-clan corresponding to the same abtiris mentioned as it has today) become Habar Magaadle. Notice also the Egyptian penchant for the hard "G". Gaameel for camel and Gamal fo Jamal.

This issue was noticed by many historians and the point now is that when the original copy of Shihab ad-Din's original work is found in Gujarat, India and copied online (which would be sooner than late) then we would have a complete proof that Isaaq were never involved in the saga of Ahmed Gurey and only came into history and out of history with during British colonization.

Who cares about what happened in war with concern towards Hirabe. Different things happen in a single day, but the point is Marehan's glorious participation and place in history is not in question---whereas his Isaaq only have relevance in a simple mistranslated written hundreds of years later by an Egyptian having possible stolen the mention of a Gudabirsi sub-clan.

I would be embittered and insecure if I were him too. As for Hiraabe, He was indeed a Chief looking out for the wellbeing of his tol.

French translation of the original Futuh, written in the 1800's. Notice also Pankhurst has translated to "Habar Makdi" (Habar Makadoor-Gudabirsi) the Habar Magaadle in question mistranslated by the Egyptian source the Isaaq's sole claim to importance is based on.



and he writes of the Marehan Chief



Les Somalis fatigues de voir leurs troupeux enleves et leur pays devaste se rendirent aupres de l'Imam ayant a leur tete leur chef Harabuwah (Hirabu). Ainsi, tous les Somalis avec leur chef firent la paix avec l'Imam, une paix parfaite et sincere. A la suite de cela, L'Imam, fit des preparatifs pour une guerre sainte (Jihad); il avait en vue l'Abyssinie. Les Somalis avec leur chef Harabuwah etaient maintenant soumis a son autorite(I).

Translated as:

The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.

It has always struck me as abnormal how this particular character, and others of his ilk were obsessed with promoting fabricated achievements of the minor, quasi-somali clan known as Marehan. I never paid much attention, as far as I was concerned they were Hawiye property (my Idoor brain likening them to Dhulos and Isaaq).

All until this particular propagandist started boasting about Futuh Al Habash wars, and his minor people's role suddenly appeared to rival that of the Imam himself. I got curious...

So I looked into it, turns out this chancer has a habit of concocting shit out thin air. Take his post above for example he claims:

Les Somalis fatigues de voir leurs troupeux enleves et leur pays devaste se rendirent aupres de l'Imam ayant a leur tete leur chef Harabuwah (Hirabu). Ainsi, tous les Somalis avec leur chef firent la paix avec l'Imam, une paix parfaite et sincere. A la suite de cela, L'Imam, fit des preparatifs pour une guerre sainte (Jihad); il avait en vue l'Abyssinie. Les Somalis avec leur chef Harabuwah etaient maintenant soumis a son autorite(I).

Translated as:

The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.

The propagandist is selectively quoting from the source, not completely unexpected but very disingenuous, in reality the source is not doing his leader Xiraabu Guita Tidoros (what-kind-of-name-is-this-anyway?) any favours:

The complete passage, in its original Arabic:



The author here is discussing how Imam Ahmed Al Ghazi attacked a marauding clan of bandits by the name of Habr Maqdi, when the Imam reached them he oblitirated them and turned their country to dust. And as he returned home, the Somali bandits (whom he just got done destroying), weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam led by their leader Xirabo (i.e. leader of the bandits the Imam had punished) and other Somalis, and there they concluded peace with him.

So they joined the Imam after he punished them and turned their country to dust.

Dishonest does not do our resident propagandist any justice. He would go to any length to mis-quote and misrepresent sources if they do not paint his puny clan in good light. Read the original Arabic for yourselves.

Whats more, this propagandists actually attempted to argue that the name of the leader of his clan, i.e. Xiraabu Gutia Tidorus is actually an authentic Somali name

A matter that has been resolved. Futuh Habasha used Abyssinian understanding of some names, case in point the tribal Chieftan of Somalis who was Marehan labeled Hirabu Goita Tedros

He is actually Hiraabe Mataan Ciis Mohamed Da'uud Abadir Muuse of beesha Rida-Amiir (Our leader who is a gift of God) of beesha Adam-Bari (Adam of East) Marehan

In Ge'ez derived Ethiopian Semetic languages

Goita = Gift of God
Tedros = Master/ Lord

Hiiraabe (and myself) are reer Rida-Amir

In Arabic
Rida = Gift of God
Amir= Master/Lord

Obviously that did not fly, the book was very careful to record the names of those involved as they were in their native language, examples from the text include:

The Habar Magaadle leader whose name was written as Axmed Gurey, completely intact despite the name having both Somali and Arabic words. Carefully written as Ahmed Gurey bin Xusein Al Somali. They did not even use the variant Graññ. There was also Gerri leader, named Cismaan bin Khalid al Somali, his name (and many other Somali names) were written normally including:

Mataan bin Cismaan Al Somali
Ali Garaad
Farshaxan Baale

This is a very salient point regarding the origins of this clan, especially when coupled with their use of 'Waaq' the name of Sky God of the Oromo, and having members of the clan (and leaders at that) with three generations of non-Somali names i.e. Xiraabu Gutia Tidorus! Think about it, Xiraabu was the son of a Marehan man called Gutia who in turn was the son of a Marehan man called Tidoros! This explains the desperate (and laughable) attempt at explaining the pagan name Xiraabu.

The more I looked into this the more interesting tidbits of their history I found.

Turns out:

The Marehan leader, Xiraabu, actually betrayed the Imaam!!

'The army camped around the city (Harar; my own barracks), with each tribe being kept apart from the others. The tribe of the Marraihan was, however, wavering. Their chieftain was a man fond of intrigue and procrastination. Extremely wily, he loved double-dealing and swindles. The imam organised some of his soldiers and went to the Marraihan and confronted Hirabu and his tribe and said to him: 'Why are you lagging behind in coming on the jihad? Hirabu complained about his plight, and excused himself on the grounds of his poverty-stricken state.

The imam accepted his excuse, and then said to him: 'But no good will come to you. Hirabu appointed his nephew to command the Marraihan and they rallied around the imam -ninety cavalry and more than seven-hundred footsoldiers- with Hirabu bringing up the rear. The imam went back to his city of Harar, taking the tribe of Marraihan with him.''

The Marehan actually were making excuses, and lagged behind in the Jihad. Xiraabu, the leaders of Marehan was doing calaacal to the Imaam on the subject of his poverty-sticken state

They were always beggars. And their leader, their most respected personality was described as a double-dealing swindler, fond of intrigue and procrastination! (Remember how our propagandist was trying to portray him as a valiant warrior, lol?)

They were causing the Jihad to be delayed, so much so that the Imam had to confront Xiraabu and his clan.

In the original Arabic the Imam actually cursed Xiraabu, he said "Maa Cindak Khayr Yarja" which translates to the Somali "Khayr maba lihid" (wuu habaarey).



The original Arabic also clearly states that Xiraabu did not join the Imam.

I will leave you all with this. The leader this propagandist is trying to peddle on Snet murdered a squire boy and then fled the wrath of the Imam (coughs, Siad Barre 1991,coughs):

"Then Hirabu the chieftain of the Somali tribe of Marraihan, killed one of the equerries of the sultan ‘Umar Din when he was in Nageb. The imam heard about what Hirabu had done, and he said to the Sultan ‘Umar Din, ‘This Somali has acted treacherously towards you and killed your equerry.’ So the imam, and the sultan with him, prepared himself for an expedition and set out and arrived at the country of the Somalis, as far as Kidad. Hirabu. meantime, had fled and was hiding in his own country.The imam asked the sultan, ‘What shall we do now? I am going to send for him to hand over the horses, and to pay the blood-money. If he does so, then all is well: if he does not, then I shall go against him, while you go back to your country.’ So the imam sent to Hirabu to hand over the horses, and to pay the blood-money to some sharifs of the family of Ba’ Alawi, the Husainites, may God bless us through their means."

He actually fled his land and went into hiding in Hawiye country after murdering a mere boy! And only when he was chased by the Imam and found hiding in Hawiye country did he meekly pay the blood-money.

Remember his name, Xiraabu Gutia Tidoros Al Marehan

In fact the word "Isaaq" is not found anywhere.

Caqli boon, as if the word Darod (Tarod) is found anywhere in the text ":lol:

As for the role of Duriyada during the Futuh, well, you must remember the last lesson I gave you on the subject. You actually fled the thread if memory serves right

In any case, the Isaaq, specifically Habar Magaadle were one of the most prominent groups in Futuh, this is highlighted by their leader Ahmed Gurey bin Xusein Al Somali being one of the most well known figures from that period (unlike Xiraabu), so much so that his name now is synonymous with that of the Imam and people confuse Axmed Gurey (a Somali Habar Magaadle leader) with Ahmed Al Ghazi, the Imaam.

The contribution of Habar Magaadle is noted as the first riders to reach the Imam being Habar Magaadle cavalry with their leader Ahmed Gurey:



Unlike Xiraabu whom the Imaam cursed, and who showed reluctance to join the Imaam complaining about his poverty-stricken state (:lol: ), Ahmed Gurey was showered with gifts by the Imaam as a sign of gratitude.



Compare, if you will, the description of Marehan "The tribe of the Marraihan was, however, wavering" with that of Habar Magaadle "they were like striking lions".

Of course they made up one of the largest cavalry units int he Imaam's army, with 200 on horse and two thousand on foot!



In describing an intense part of the battle, the Somlis whom were positioned to the left of Muslims routed and were followed by infidels who killed 3000 of them and captured many still, the leaders of the Somalis never wavered though and continued to press on and fight, some of those who fought valiantly include Mataan ibn Cismaan, Ahmed Gurey, Ali Garaad, Farshaxan Baale....


Compare this unwavering support of the Imaam to the betrayal of Xiraabu "Hirabu complained about his plight, and excused himself on the grounds of his poverty-stricken state".

This is why you are making shit up, you have no history, so you resort to propaganda and Snet xayasiis of your people. Its very sad wallahi.

Because of you and your antics all Snet now knows of Xiraabu Gutia Tidorus

Xildiiid wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:21 pm ^
You're a spineless coward. You got your brother PerfectOrder, who's a moderator on SomaliNet, to ban Ben Dover and now you're replying?

Ben Dover already settled the dispute about Habar Magaadle and you couldn't reply yet now you're regurgitating the same arguments he destroyed.

That was weak wasnt it

What else would you expect from the resident booli-qaran propagandist.

Did he actually ban you for karbashing him?

ahahaha

some people around here have no shame walahi. they keep getting destroyed left, right and centre and they still keep coming back for more.

xildiid, ben and xplaya

Only fools intoxicated with a deadly mind-altering substance called qabiilism, would employ so much diligent and care on so trifling a topic as the current one.

Xiraabu Gutia Tidorus still funny

barbarossa wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:04 pm Only fools intoxicated with a deadly mind-altering substance called qabiilism, would employ so much diligent and care on so trifling a topic as the current one.

no you are just qabilist for being against this topic, if you thought it was irrelevant why not just ignore it ? yet you wish to come in and call people qabilist, even though this topic has not insulted any qabiil, you need to go away with your illogical position.

Good God

If your lack of dignity is such you would shamelessly contest something with as much corresponding information as Shire Jama who wrote our script, how can you have any dignity to look at your insecurities making you argue things you know to be unsubstantiated.

Bendover, I don't argue because I am motivated one "upping" you. I post to celebrate facts with corroboration.

Notice have I have ever came into a topic you opened? Have I ever been motivated by putting down Isaaq by comically insecure stuff like "ramming Isaaq" down our throats.

Just look at yourself.

I have NEVER came into a topic you opened or went into any Isaaq topic shamelessly arguing against written history (not he said/she said) by saying "you are selling Isaaq to us."

Like why the hell do I care?

The answer is I DON'T. I am not insecure because I havr belief and confidence in who I am.

Look at your insecure ass. So what if I say Marehan pee the longest. Like why would you be butthurt if you didn't feel insecure towards me?

If you as an Isaaq said you piss the longest, I wouldn't even take a double look. It's irrelevant.

Then again, I am the one with glorious modern history and a glorious past history. The one mentioned by UNESCO in 1966 and Somali government documents, mentioned specifically in books dated 500 years ago as the "leader of Somalis." I am the one with longest modern history of ruling Somalis including your ilk. I am today once again the president of what is known as Somalia which is what the world considers you.

What are you?

Some angry, embittered, child who pouts when he found out ORIGINAL WORK written during WHEN said history was taking place destroy momma/poppa said. Keep whining peasant brat.

Adali wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:36 pm

barbarossa wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:04 pm Only fools intoxicated with a deadly mind-altering substance called qabiilism, would employ so much diligent and care on so trifling a topic as the current one.

no you are just qabilist for being against this topic, if you thought it was irrelevant why not just ignore it ? yet you wish to come in and call people qabilist, even though this topic has not insulted any qabiil, you need to go away with your illogical position.

I hereby publicly accept and heed the sound advice proffered to me by Adali, a man universally admired and respected for his unqabiilistic-like nature.

Voltage wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:28 pm Good God

If your lack of dignity is such you would shamelessly contest something with as much corresponding information as Shire Jama who wrote our script, how can you have any dignity to look at your insecurities making you argue things you know to be unsubstantiated.

Bendover, I don't argue because I am motivated one "upping" you. I post to celebrate facts with corroboration.

Notice have I have ever came into a topic you opened? Have I ever been motivated by putting down Isaaq by comically insecure stuff like "ramming Isaaq" down our throats.

Just look at yourself.

I have NEVER came into a topic you opened or went into any Isaaq topic shamelessly arguing against written history (not he said/she said) by saying "you are selling Isaaq to us."

Like why the hell do I care?

The answer is I DON'T. I am not insecure because I havr belief and confidence in who I am.

Look at your insecure ass. So what if I say Marehan pee the longest. Like why would you be butthurt if you didn't feel insecure towards me?

If you as an Isaaq said you piss the longest, I wouldn't even take a double look. It's irrelevant.

Then again, I am the one with glorious modern history and a glorious past history. The one mentioned by UNESCO in 1966 and Somali government documents, mentioned specifically in books dated 500 years ago as the "leader of Somalis." I am the one with longest modern history of ruling Somalis including your ilk. I am today once again the president of what is known as Somalia which is what the world considers you.

What are you?

Some angry, embittered, child who pouts when he found out ORIGINAL WORK written during WHEN said history was taking place destroy momma/poppa said. Keep whining peasant brat.

Boo hoo, no need for sob stories here.

Once his claims get obliterated this booli-qaran propagandist does one of three things:

1- Vacate the thread and flee immediately, or..

2- Request his relatives to delete the thread or ban the other party before he responds, or..

2- Pivot onto a completely different subject once his lies are busted (see above).


The lack of dignity, honesty and any real interest in history falls on you and your ilk. For years now you have been spewing your alternative facts unchecked, your inferiority complex is such that you are clearly determined to falsify a history for your minor peoples by any means necessary. I have always ignored you, but perhaps its your bad luck that I have actually looked into some of your alternative factoids and only recently decided to do something about it.

On this very thread, you tried to pass off your ancestor Xiraabu Gutia (just-what-kind-of-name-is-this?!) Theodoros as some gallant warrior, selectively quoting from text in dishonesty of the highest order. Turns out your ancestor was a "double-dealing swindler, fond of intrigue and procrastination" (I am quoting the text) who refused to join the jihad on grounds of his "poverty-stricken state", who murdered a boy for no reason and went into hiding as a refugee in Hawiye country, who the Imam himself cursed, and chased all the way into Hawiye country to get the craven man to pay the blood-money!

You attempted to present an entirely different narrative and failed completely.

You even tried to perform the most laughably embarrassing linguistic acrobatics to explain why your ancestor has three generations of pagan, non-Somali names, Xirrabu apparently was a Marehan man, and so was Gutia and so was Theodoros!! Thats three generations of non-Somali names. This clearly bothered you so much that you actually made up (out of complete thin air) an alternative story and tried to pretend that out of all the Somali names written clearly in the text, your ancestor's name was chosen to be 'translated' into a different language

That is lack of dignity my friend.

You have been a member on this site far longer than I have (on a different account), do name me any time I showed any interest in your people or your history. As far as I am concerned you do not exist. It was just your bad luck that after ignoring your garbage for years, I decided to actually look into it.

You bet I will concern myself with you when you claim the achievements of icons of Duriyada like Axmed Gurey of Futuh, or Muse X. I. Galal, the greatest Somali scholar on linguistics. A similar thing to what took place here happened when you attempted to claim some minor Marehan "invented" the Somali script. Xplaya and Xildid tore you a new one and you promptly fled the thread when your lies were busted and requested the thread to be deleted.

Thats insecurity right there.

I understand, you do not have a lot of history, but what you are doing is not doing your people any favours. Look around you, no other Somali clan is doing what you are doing, including the ones known for boasting. Because of you now, people are aware of Xiraabu and his history. This knowledge will live for ever. And its because you tried to lie and make him up to be a big part of Futuh when he wasnt, when you tried to claim Marehan were a massive part of the jihad but in reality they were the only group described as "wavering" and "lagging behind". Its not all pretty.

Its a sad, the 'gotta catch 'em all' mentality of this little man has caused his people unnecessary embarrassment.