Got a case of Somali Wiki mod on Emir Nur's page that is so evocative of hate, it makes me share.

[Gubbet]

Nur was never a merehan or darod. He is most likely an harari. Only voltage claims him so that he can have confidence of his own inferior qabil

You are obsessed---with an issue; you do not have a place in.

[Khalid Ali]

Actual harar is very close to me
But Mr nur has nothing to do with Marehan
So that also means he has nothing to do with abudwaaq and gedo. Simple as that. Stop claiming things that have nothing to do with you

[Khalid Ali]

Nur was never a merehan or darod. He is most likely an harari. Only voltage claims him so that he can have confidence of his own inferior qabil

We brought proof. We don’t care what you think nor Isaaqs think to be frank. You have no say in MX history. All he did was provide sources. Stop projecting your inferiority complex on us.

He didn't bring any proof what so ever. Its you who suffers from inferiority Complex claiming history that have nothing to do with you. What in 3 centuries we will hear your clan claim. Abiye Ahmed Ali. Because he had a merehan girlfriend called Mrs cheese. Ridicouos I say..

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Nur was never a merehan or darod. He is most likely an harari. Only voltage claims him so that he can have confidence of his own inferior qabil

We brought proof. We don’t care what you think nor Isaaqs think to be frank. You have no say in MX history. All he did was provide sources. Stop projecting your inferiority complex on us.

He didn't bring any proof what so ever. Its you who suffers from inferiority Complex claiming history that have nothing to do with you. What in 3 centuries we will hear your clan claim. Abiye Ahmed Ali. Because he had a merehan girlfriend called Mrs cheese. Ridicouos I say..

Sxb sources are king and Young Idajaa is 4/5 right now. We don’t care. You prove your claims on Adal, ours is cemented in the history books. Only the uneducated or the ones with cuqdad deny this. Our glory is validated by numerous scholars. You think I care what a Isaaq thinks of Marehan? I don’t border you and you’re here trying to be a gatekeeper on Marehan history, who gave you that xiniyo horta? I’ll say the old generation. Don’t worry it’s only a matter of time until I come to power and I don’t tolerate disrespect.

[Gubbet]

Actual harar is very close to me
But Mr nur has nothing to do with Marehan
So that also means he has nothing to do with abudwaaq and gedo. Simple as that. Stop claiming things that have nothing to do with you

Are you like slow or something? I am serious wallah.


What does you being "close" to Harar have to do with Harar or for that matter has to do with Marehan?

UK is an ocean away from US whilen Haiti is 10 minute boat ride----what does Haiti being "close" to US have to do with ancestral ties between UK and US?

1. Marehan are famous "within" Somalis for migrating and conquering land. I mean that's actually part of Somali discourse today---it is not even about history.

2. Marehan are recorded in the Futuh in person showing their past history in Harar. I mean you are not even identified directly, whereas Marehan is identified as Marehan.

3. Marehan were actually recorded in consistent mapping historically showing their migration while it was going on. You didn't even qualify to be on the maps.


http://digitool.is.cuni.cz/R/-?func=dbi ... rary=GEN01

4. Finally, there are no people called "Harari" That's a Western exonym borrowed from "Adare" or people of the city of Harar---and they don't even like that name either.

People from Harar are Gey Sinan or people of the city---they are not a tribe or an ethnic group.

Even "Harari" the language is not an organically formed language of a tribe or people.

It is like "Swahili" a creole.

"Harari" is anyone who was Gey Sinan or became "Of The City." They are Turks, Greeks, Arabs, Habashi, Oroml, Somali, and yes Amir Nur, a Harari who was Marehan.

"Marehan" is an ethnic identity.

"Harari" is citizenship of a geographical entity.

5. I taste a really pitiful resentment based metallic taste in your spoil attempt in this topic and I must say wallahi it makes me very concerned for your identity self-esteem.

I think you should reconsider further participation in this topic unless you are otherwise not aware of the perception given by your statement.

Finally, if I was sharp at all, it's because of the sheer imposition of a feeling of frustration needlessly created by you when there is no basis for having had thar effect in this topic.

[Gubbet]

1971: #1 French historian on Ethiopia Jean D: Emir Nur of "Marrehan Group"

[Turbulence]

Was it theyuusuf143 who did that? lol I remember going to Wikipedia about a year ago and reading some articles. I was shocked how active he was on that platform.

[Gubbet]

You always were a shaydaan Turb, never seen someone with such a photographic memory like you.

And also, they would fail a high school SAT level critical reading test.

They don't understand the difference between the SOCIAL SCIENCE and the HARD SCIENCE of the scientific method. They keep harping about "minority views" when Wikipedia is clear the standard is different for the different groups.

Basically, say CREATIONISM as a subject isn't studied by peer reviewed research. I mean you CAN'T. CREATIONISM says GOD created man and there is no way to apply a test to what "GOD" can do----science only studies observable phenomena.

So in a subject about "Creationism", the person arguing evolution virtually has no "Scientific basis" for responding to creationism since basically no scientific research exists testing creationism.

BUT against the whole of biology, clearly the creationists are an extreme minority and evolutionary biology is the standard.

That is a way an extreme minority viewpoint can take advantage of the scientific standard so Wikipedia encourages in such a moment to hold it against the Totality of the subject.

BUT THEN WIKIPEDIA MAKES IT CLEAR THE SOCIAL SCIENCE IS DIFFERENT AND THIS STANDARD IS NOT ONLY INAPPROPRIATE BUT HAS THE OPPOSITE EFFECT.

So it even explicitly says to hold a claim against the TOTALITY OF CLAIMS.

Basically, say OBAMA is a from a KENYAN FATHER. Out of 1,000 articles about Obama, say maybe even 5% point out his father is a Kenyan.

Just because 95% of the articles about Obama (some relevant to NUCLEAR TALKS with Russia, some relevant to FLOODING in a US State, etc) do not mention who his father is, does that mean the claim Obama's father is KENYAN is FALSE?

No, it doesn't and it is ridiculous.

To impugn ot contest the claim about Obama's father being Kenyan, you have to compare it to the CLAIMS ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF OBAMA'S FATHER not to the totality of everything written about Obama.

I mean this is rven5 BASIC STATISTICS.

You hold Obama Father is Kenyan/Claims about Obams's father.

Basically that's what this individual has been doing. I actually sort of pity HIM, because it is a gross display of ignorance about basic logic and statistics.

Virtually every credible reference to Amir Nur's ethnic origins is Marehan, FROM CERULLI himself.

To contest this, you hold the Marehan claim against all claims about Nur's ethnic origins----NOT the totality of references to Amir Nur whiçh in socual science is DISPARATE to and not causative inference to his ethnic origins..


It's shocking how ignorant someone can be of this basic analogy.

[Gubbet]

The irony about this whole situation is called "unintended consequences" for the original instigator of the problem.

By trying to CENSOR real information for the most despicable of reasons, they now caused over 150% increase in information tieing Emir Nur to Marehan.

Within a matter of couple weaks, we went from 2 sources in the public record in the last 10 years, to now 5 major sources--and counting since I have more and am letting these marinate at a time.

No one who has fought the truth has ever succeeded.

The response to truth is to accept it.

If your understanding goes against truth, it means you were under falsehood or misinformation and the thing to do is to disavow it.

It is not to fight truth to intentionally protect falsehood.

That is a losing proposition for all of eternity.

[Gubbet]

The next one is a big one.

It is from 1931...

...and it is the earliest academic Reference yet put into the record on this subject from the single most respected academic research document ever penned on Ethiopian historiagraphy.

Cerulli traveled to HARAR and wrote this article entirely based on what he learned and found out in Harar.

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

The next one is a big one.

It is from 1931...

...and it is the earliest academic Reference yet put into the record on this subject from the single most respected academic research document ever penned on Ethiopian historiagraphy.

Cerulli traveled to HARAR and wrote this article entirely based on what he learned and found out in Harar.

My question is how did Cerulli get all this information? Did his cite their oral traditions or written Harari accounts. I’m so curious how he came to that conclusion.

[Gubbet]

Saddam,

1. This was the middle ages---for reference that's when the Portuguese started to look for "India" which they would later call Native Americans after getting lost.
2. Information was scarce basically. Even more so for Africa or most of the world without record keeping.
3. While we Somalis were unlettered, fortunately the Abyssinians were which translated to the Harari administration borrowing it.
4. Unfortunately however, the Ethiopian records, like most of their peers at that that, weren't any more sophisticated than say "Gilgamesh" almost. It is all religious/syncretic parables. It isn't really "records" as much as religious oriented "thikr" almost (ala Christian style) since the literate were only abbots.
5. However, thankfully Harar because of the Islamic influence did develop reocrd keeping and more importantly "scribes" or city secretaries who were both writing and being "living memory." In case for example, something happened to the physical record, they had to be prepared to do write it again by heart.
6. Unfortunately, the Ethiopian capture of Harar was both BRUTAL and INCREDIBLY damaging/irresponsible. After they defeated the last Emir at Challenko OUTSIDE of Harar, Menelike did not order a peaceful entry. The Ethiopians went berserk killing, piliging and destroying everything. Before nightfall on the first day, 3000 lay dead including city administrators, the town was burning, soldierd had taken everything as booty (that's how they were paid), the biggest gate was turned into open hole, and the biggest mosque was a Church.
7. I mean in today's understanding, that's Geneva Conventions warcrimes JUST ON THE BASIS OF the damage, theft, and pillage of culture and civilization.

8.However, between some saved artifacts and living memory, the deducated scholarship of Cerulli and Rossini and Wagner, etc have done incredible work in the last 100 years to reconstruct that thousand year old civilization.

9. For this particular document "Documenti Arabi per la storia dell'Etiopia" Cerulli was doing work for Ethiopia Occidentale book whrm5 he heard about that which had been saved and hidden until then.

10. He immediately went to Harar and transcribed and contextualized it by engaging the "living memory" as well that were at that time (40+ years after fall of Harar) growing old or dying out.

11. The article is about the transcription of the 2nd most important Arabic work on Harar saved (after Futuh) and Cerulli's contextualization of it using the "living memories" who saved as well as gathering a whole host of "living memories" before their host bodies grew too old or died by then 45 years after fall of Harar.

12. That's where Cerulli documents the living memories giving the last pieces of information such as from whom did Emir Nur come from.

13. They also relay other pieces of information unknown before like the fact that Emir Adruh was Adruh ben Goyta Tedros. Of this Cerulli says it can't bé the Marehan Hiraabe's father Goyta Tedros because of time difference but that it seems Tedros was a common name in Harar. It meant one thing to one Semitic language (Harari) and another to others (Amharic/Tigrinya) based on both of their ideas of God (one Christian, one Muslim). ,

So it is fascinating what Cerulli adds to the historiagraphy which is why this document is still celebrated ao uniquely almost a 100 years later.

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Saddam,

1. This was the middle ages---for reference that's when the Portuguese started to look for "India" which they would later call Native Americans after getting lost.
2. Information was scarce basically. Even more so for Africa or most of the world without record keeping.
3. While we Somalis were unlettered, fortunately the Abyssinians were which translated to the Harari administration borrowing it.
4. Unfortunately however, the Ethiopian records, like most of their peers at that that, weren't any more sophisticated than say "Gilgamesh" almost. It is all religious/syncretic parables. It isn't really "records" as much as religious oriented "thikr" almost (ala Christian style) since the literate were only abbots.
5. However, thankfully Harar because of the Islamic influence did develop reocrd keeping and more importantly "scribes" or city secretaries who were both writing and being "living memory." In case for example, something happened to the physical record, they had to be prepared to do write it again by heart.
6. Unfortunately, the Ethiopian capture of Harar was both BRUTAL and INCREDIBLY damaging/irresponsible. After they defeated the last Emir at Challenko OUTSIDE of Harar, Menelike did not order a peaceful entry. The Ethiopians went berserk killing, piliging and destroying everything. Before nightfall on the first day, 3000 lay dead including city administrators, the town was burning, soldierd had taken everything as booty (that's how they were paid), the biggest gate was turned into open hole, and the biggest mosque was a Church.
7. I mean in today's understanding, that's Geneva Conventions warcrimes JUST ON THE BASIS OF the damage, theft, and pillage of culture and civilization.

8.However, between some saved artifacts and living memory, the deducated scholarship of Cerulli and Rossini and Wagner, etc have done incredible work in the last 100 years to reconstruct that thousand year old civilization.

9. For this particular document "Documenti Arabi per la storia dell'Etiopia" Cerulli was doing work for Ethiopia Occidentale book whrm5 he heard about that which had been saved and hidden until then.

10. He immediately went to Harar and transcribed and contextualized it by engaging the "living memory" as well that were at that time (40+ years after fall of Harar) growing old or dying out.

11. The article is about the transcription of the 2nd most important Arabic work on Harar saved (after Futuh) and Cerulli's contextualization of it using the "living memories" who saved as well as gathering a whole host of "living memories" before their host bodies grew too old or died by then 45 years after fall of Harar.

12. That's where Cerulli documents the living memories giving the last pieces of information such as from whom did Emir Nur come from.

13. They also relay other pieces of information unknown before like the fact that Emir Adruh was Adruh ben Goyta Tedros. Of this Cerulli says it can't bé the Marehan Hiraabe's father Goyta Tedros because of time difference but that it seems Tedros was a common name in Harar. It meant one thing to one Semitic language (Harari) and another to others (Amharic/Tigrinya) based on both of their ideas of God (one Christian, one Muslim). ,

So it is fascinating what Cerulli adds to the historiagraphy which is why this document is still celebrated ao uniquely almost a 100 years later.

Fascinating. I always knew that Somalis were idiotic nomads. This story also goes into what we talked about one of the original Futuh copies. You should do a thread on the capture of Harar by Menelik II

[Murax]

That one map Gubbet posted, Marehan are not just in Ethiopia but deep into it, furthest west of the Somalis in western Ethiopia

[Gubbet]

Saddam

You can imagine then what I think about the very juvenile seeming charade at Wikipedia---where, once again, they are not and cannot CONTEST the claim, but rather are trying to BARR ("CENSOR") the references to Emir Nur's origin from informing a part of hiography.

To make this even more elementary sort of play acting---not only are they not CONTESTING the claim (which they can't) but they are not even CONTESTING THE SOURCES.

Infact the sources are the very same specific TEXTS SERVING AS THE FOUNDATION OF THE ENTIRE BIOGRAPHY (Harvel Sabestian, Cerulli, Wagner, etc) on the page.

They literally are just picking and choosing to CENSORbthe specific parts alluding to Emir's Marehan origins.

It makes me crack a wry smile and why I thought it was originally not even worth my effort to get involved and I still have not wallahul cadiim.

I look at the manufavtured stunt like i would look at toddlers playing in a pen.

And when I see one try to be sneaky covering a big plastic ball he can't hide behind his back act like he was the most clever thing on earth when he is allowed to sneak up and throw the ball at you---I crack the same amused, wry smile this got out of me.

Do you know why I no longer even use the word history, but rather use historiagraphy?

"History" is the subject of study.

"Historiagraphy" is the study of the subject of history AND the study of how to "apply" the study.

The more you understand it the more mature, grounded, and responsible, even duty bound you become to not abuse or dishonor the knowledge.

Historiagraphy protects the study and knowledge of history from both your limitations and biases as well as the biases and limitations of all others.

It teaches you to contextualize and situate the knowledge AND the process with which the knowledge has been passed down.

If that individual at Wikipedia understand even a small part of historiagraphy, they wouldn't have had both the intent as well as the galls that deceived them to mistake shamelessness for confidence leading to peddling concepts that the historiagraphy of Harar identifies as cheap and superficial even.

1. This is Africa.
2. In the middle ages.
3. In a Harar which had a 1000 year civilization brutally crushed in the late 1880's when the vast modern African recording hadn't quite yet begin.
4. The last 100 years of Harari historiagraphy has since been like using bandaid on multiple amputee victim, bleeding to death.
5. The bandage even possible because of a very small cohort of dedicated, tenacious, tireleless scholars without which even less would be with us today of this knowledge.
6. Who themselves owe it all to the extreme minority of Harar's living memories they were even able to reach in time with the vast amount of them perishing in the invasion or dying within the 45 years or so between the fall of Harar and when the small group of scholars would really get involved.
7. With Harar ever since then under control and for a long time under occupation muzzled and the knowledge that could have even beem saved degraded.


And some tribally obsessed Somali laughingly thinks niche Wikipedia business derived procedures designed to protect itself from lawsuits from the Encyclopedia's of the world---is relevant, judicious, appropriate, and again even relevant to the weight and depth of Harari/Adal historiagraphy.

I digress.

I don't evem want to waste any more time on that shenanigans.