SomaliNet Forums

[quote="sexy-kitten"] So now, you are telling me that the west stands for "homosexuality, Athiests, and hookers" because that's what I just stated above. [quote]


No I didn't. Only pointed that in the West: homosexuality is NOT a crime. Same with apostasy. But you disagree with that -- correction you CLAIM to disagree with it. When in REALITY you do agree that homosexuality and apostasy are not crimes, courtesyof living in the West -- by accepting and respecting Western legal system, you are agreeing witht the West that the aforementioned acts/behaviour are not criminal.




[quote]Since when did I say I hated the West?[quote]

When you said apostates should be punished... the West ensures that ALL ppl regardless of sexual oreintation, race, gender or religion fair and equal treatment. By rejecting this fundamental, defining Western ethos you HATE the West. No ifs buts or ands.



[quote] I've learned to stick to my culture and I speak my af Somalia 100%.. [quote]


That is a lie, a sin if you really believe in Islam. YOu dress like any other Western girl, that means you didn't stick to your culture. You listen to western music, that means you didn't stick to your culture. You attend western education system, that means you didn't stick to your culture... NEED I GO ON?

I think you got my drift... please don't lie again.



[quote]I live here because of the economy[quot]



Who cares why you live in the West? Reasons are abound but choices you made only matter. YOU freely chose to live in the West as oppose to Somalia or any other muslim country. Why? Because the West IS NOT LIKE THE MUSLIM WORLD. You reject the muslim world in preference of the WEST.

It is really is amazing and highly entertaining to witness the mental contortionism you guys go through... why don't you just admit you LOVE the West and wouldn't trade your passport for any muslim one?


Just tell the truth, damn it!

*Phony Priest*

Ina Carabeey, u know that u sound like a lil kid in some occasions, or is it ur Qs that makes me laugh @ the top of my lungs coonka. *highly amusing indeed* , Eyaahey Ii Maqal Baan Ku Irii.

Ur comment *** Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?***

It’s apparent that good, evil and whatever happens in this world happens by Allah’s will. But don’t forget that there are malevolence caused by human beings and there are natural catastrophes. There are suffering 4 individuals and there are those that involve a large number of people. (U’ll ask me why Allah would tolerate ppl 2 commit heinous deeds, while He’s the creator and the dominator). In order 2 cut the long story short, Allah has placed physical laws and moral laws in this universe. Allah allows suffering 2 occur when 1 or more of these laws are infringed. The physical law is based on cause and effect. 4 instance the civil wars in Somalia was initiated by Somali ppl when they decided 2 neglect Allah’s regulations (2 not persecute or assassinate each other on the basis of clans and nations), consequently a lot of them died and they brought anguish upon themselves. After all Allah saved them and He didn’t let them suffer from negligence, and the testimony is that the civil war stopped although couple of conflicts still exists till this twinkle of an eye, but obviously there are some stages they should go through in order 2 terminate this whole hardship. Well, how many times it happens that we are not cautious and still we reach our destinations safe and sound? Think about how Allah made the atmosphere adaptable 4 us. 4 instances if there was a hole in the ozone, what would happen 2 us? Didn’t Allah make sure that it stays like that in order 2 safeguard us, but yet again there we go mentioning the evil points overlooking all the gracious things that Allah blessed us with.

ur comment *** Why would he need to? He's God, with omnipotence and omniscience, he's PERFECT. ***

Perceptibly, this worldly life is temporary, it’s just like a course of action 2 test our faithfulness, not becuz Allah wants 2 show us that we are silly objects that been created 4 fun, but more like 2 sight who’ll pass this test 2 find an eternal world that is perfect and permanent, in view of the verity that Allah endured devils 2 gather as much as corrupted ppl, so they’ll be humiliated, debarred of existence and burned in hell with their ilk in the hereafter.

As I presume it’s observable that sufferings occur 2 teach us that we must adhere 2 Allah’s natural and moral laws. It is sometimes 2 punish those who contravene Allah’s natural or moral laws. It is 2 test our faith in Allah and 2 test our commitment 2 humanity.

Ur comment *** So God is like humans then?***

Rather than twisting my words waryaa, won’t u 2 refer back 2 my comments and read the rest of comments which I jotted down, then u’ll observe that I was conversing about the verity that, There are certain Laws which should be pursued whether it concerns Allah regulations or man-made policies, so how could u reverence man-made standards and stand in critical of Allah regulations.

Ur comment ***A LOT of things we didn't understand were originally ascribed to God. Those selfsame things today are explained by science***

War Nacaladaan Bal Day, Ma Is Waalosa Misa Anaka Ba Na Walee, *Nacalatullahi Cala Sheeytan* Since Allah Doesn’t exist, Who wrote The holly Books and especially the *Quran* how come it contains a lot of scientific studies which is been discovered recently by scientists, how did that person know a lot about these things, Was He a judicious person? But how come He was capable of knowing all this although some of the things didn’t exists back then? How come it contains stories of those who existed be4 us? How come every prophet knew that prophet who’ll be send after him? Wasn’t they just an ineffectual humans like ur ilk consider them as. *so enigmatic* huh!!!...

*Much Esteem and Reverence*

*Bless*

*Avowedly Agonistic*

Ur comment ***How are children whose perception of life and the mysterious of the external world are still infinitesimal suppose to understand and comprehend that the terrible catastrophe that's befallen them is a test from God***

Don’t be concerned about lil juveniles losing their faith after perceiving terrible calamity. Since every child is born with the built-in ability 2 know and believe in his creator *Fitra*. They have the cognition that has been placed by Allah in his nature. Faith in Allah is ingrained in human nature, and that it is only the parents and the society that corrupts the soul and diverts it from the praise path and Allah describes the human soul in a very beautiful way. After swearing by the most majestic signs of His creation, Allah declared ***And by the soul and He who perfected it!!!. Then He inspired 2 it (*the ability 2 understand*) what is virtuous 4 it and what is heinous 4 it. Successful is he who purifies it, and failure is he who corrupts it***. (91:1-10). Alongside Allah avowed in a lot of ayat that He’ll test his creatures patience and steadfastness with afflictions in order 2 measure 2 what extend they’ll be able of enduring and pursuing the religion. *But give glad tidings 2 the steadfast* (2: 155). And *Verily the steadfast will be paid their wages without stint* (39: 10). Anyway I solicited 4 ur clarifications in regard 2 some aspects in my preceding post, but u determined 2 neglect it, so I’ll replicate my previous Q, in hope that u’ll respond this time.

What is agnostics rationale 2 rebuff the mighty God commandments? Who created this universe in their stance? (Since they don’t believe in creationism nor evolution theory) What’s their purpose of life?

Oh, by the way, im not attempting 2 be neither ruthless nor nosy, but what’s the core intention behind jotting down some threads, asking whether God exists or not? I can sense *insecurity* although ur nick suggests something else ninyahow...

*Much Esteem and Reverence*

*Bless*

Mrs Verbiage,

Reading your posts hurt my eyes. What's with the astricks, smileys, subtle and not so subtle jibes... why can't you write like normal ppl. What is wrong with you?

I'm glad you find my posts funny but let me tell you it's not intentional. Just a disclaimer. Me only accidental jester. Anyways, I'll respond 2morrow.

Ureysoo
[quote]Allah avowed in a lot of ayat that He’ll test his creatures patience and steadfastness with afflictions in order 2 measure 2 what extend they’ll be able of enduring and pursuing the religion.[/quote]

You seem to be referring to those people who are fortunate enough to live through terrible disasters. Your argument seems to be that Allah brings about earthquakes and other equally terrible catastrophes so that survivers of the tragedy and perhaps the on lookers (such as our selves who watch the unfolding events from the comfort of our sofas) may give thanks for the many "blessings" of Allah.

My argument isn't at all concerned with onlookers, but those who suffer the appalling tragedy. I'm confused as to what you mean by remaining "steadfast" and exibiting "patience". How are people who've been hit with a powerful earthquake or tusanami, and who subsequently die in their multitudes suppose to remain fast and patient when they're dead? It is those who suffer directly from catastrophic events I'm reffering to. What is God's reason for letting them perish?

[quote]every child is born with the built-in ability 2 know and believe in his creator *Fitra*. [/quote]

I think that's just wishful thinking on the part of Muslims I'm afraid. Infants are certainly not born with the embedded belief in Allah anymore than they're born with the belief that there exists Father Christmas. If children were only allowed to grow up without having instilled in them superstitious ideas, they'd adopt a rationalist outlook like myself, and they would only believe in a proposition when it is supported and substantiated by empirical evidence.

You're right in one thing however; that is, it is the parents or the family of a child, (and perhaps to a lesser degree the child's society) that form and instill in the child superstitious beliefs. Muslim children are no exception. To think otherwise would be self delusion. If one was to allow the child of a Muslim, a Jew and a Christian to grow up together in an envirionment free from indoctrination and religious observance, to experience life for themselves, then I think all rational people would agree that such children would not profess neither Islam, Christianity or Judaism. Why do I hear you cry? Because religious identity is a part of our identity (and a part of identity with which we could do without quite frankly) that we inherit from our parents.

Ureysoo
[quote]
What is agnostics rationale 2 rebuff the mighty God commandments? Who created this universe in their stance? (Since they don’t believe in creationism nor evolution theory).[quote]

I should point out that I'm agnostic, not an atheist, therefore I don't rule out the possibility that the universe may possibly have been the design of a creator. My objection however is to the orthodox and traditional concept of God spoken of in the Qur'an, the Bible and other equally dubious religious scriptures given the overwhelming scientific and moral challenges facing such a God.

I refuse to accept the notion of a vindictive and vengeful God. I refuse to accept the divisive idea that says those who don't believe in a set of relgious dogma are bad men and women. If anything, the most kind, loving, warm-hearted and amiable persons I've had the pleasure to meet have been atheists. Or a God who is vainglorious to the point where He's quite happy to burn in the furnace of hellfire multitudes of perfectly good men and women, just beacuse they didn't recognise Him.

I also object to the idea that the universe in all its complexities popped into existence in a mere 6 days as claimed by the Qur'an and the Old Testament. As regards to evolution, yes I do accept Darwin's theory as it is currently the only plausible scientific explanation of the origins of life.

As for your claim that the motive behind my asking the question "does Allah exist" as a sign of insecurity on my part is a comlete distortion of the truth. My intentions are to initiate a debate within the somali community which is often tight liped about expressing a different view point with regards to issues about God and religion. It seems to me terribly ironic that Somalis (mind you they're not the only ones) have stamped the seal of taboo on questioning or openly debating the truth or validity of God given that they argue for and against regarding every other subject known to man.

blame what is happening on the greedy African so called leaders and the rich (arab leaders) who just watch and the western world who take advantage of the poor.

ALLAH is capable but watches everything because unlike humans he is pataient.

nothing in the universe is accidental. ALLAH regulates all affairs ''not a leaf falls but with his knowlege''

ALLAH is the only decision maker and he is in favour of the believers. as a believer you have to put your trust in ALLAH ''for those who fear ALLAH, he (ever) prepares a way out. and he provides for him (sources) he never could imagine. and if anyone puts his trust in ALLAH, sufficient is ALLAH for him'' surat at-Talaq. those people are lucky to be chosen and for us to see and appriciate what we have.

those people who don't have a drop of water are still more appreciating than you. they still prey and thank ALLAH because they know that events which seems to be misfortune are not really so for the believer. if he puts his trust in ALLAH, seeks refuge in him and asks help only from him, then nothing will be a matter of regret for him. ALLAH creates certain difficulties but they are only to put man to the test and to strengthen believers loyalty and faith and the opposite holds true for the unbelievers. nothing in this life can be good for them.

those dying children you speak about are at fortunate, they are going to a better place you could have never imagined if you tried. ALLAH does not make the innocent infants suffer, he takes them peacefully.

*avowedly agnostic*

Ur comment *** I'm confused as to what you mean by remaining "steadfast" and exibiting "patience". How are people who've been hit with a powerful earthquake or tusanami, and who subsequently die in their multitudes suppose to remain fast and patient when they're dead?***

The steadfastness and patience part of my dispute concerns those who managed 2 survive after they been through problematical time (nature disasters or any form of tribulations). But 4 those who past away in result, will either enter heaven or hell, so u could consider it as cause 4 them 2 die, knowing the verity each one of us will die one day, whether it’s in the middle of the street being mashed by a car, on the top of their beds, or while they are struggling after a hazardous calamity hits their area, but the result is one *death*. Beside Allah declared in a various verses that righteous ppl who dies in result of a horrendous catastrophe which ensued won’t witness torment. ***Do not think that those who are killed in the cause of God are dead, they are alive at their Lord, being provided for***. (3:169), ***They do not taste death, beyond the first death, and God spares them the retribution of Hell***. (44:56).

These verses demonstrates that when righteous ppl life’s on this earth come 2 the predetermined end, the angel of death simply invites them 2 leave their earthly bodies and move on 2 heaven. Unlike disbelievers, they know at the moment of death that they are destined 4 hell. The angels beat them up on the faces and rear ends in order 4 them 2 evict their souls, and then snatch their souls. They will be put 2 death in a state of nothingness during which they see hell day and night in a continuous nightmare that lasts until the *Day of Judgment*.

Ur comment ***I think that's just wishful thinking on the part of Muslims I'm afraid. Infants are certainly not born with the embedded belief in Allah***

Like I’ve said the children got the ability 2 recognise their creator, and their heart and soul is just like the bulb which can give light, provided it itself is not surrounded with a thick cover or dust, and every human being has that light in his soul. However those who keep it pure can enlighten their path with it, while those who allow the *spiritual dirt* 2 accumulate on it can’t see their path towards Allah, and I presume that’s what happened 2 u, after u disregarded the Islamic principles 4 particular period of time, allowing ur desires 2 take over u, therefore u lost track and pursued the wrong path. At adjacent 2 this *fitra*, Allah has also provided us with various means 2 know Him and believe in Him. He sent prophets and messengers, He sent books, and above all He created thousands of signs in nature which remind us of Him. As asserted *Soon We shall show them Our signs on the horizon and in themselves, until it becomes clear 2 them that this is the Truth*. (41:53) so there’s less chance of the kids losing track unless like I affirmed in my preceding post that their family or the society corrupts their persuasion.

Ur comment ***yes I do accept Darwin's theory as it is currently the only plausible scientific explanation of the origins of life*** / ***If anything, the most kind, loving, warm-hearted and amiable persons I've had the pleasure to meet have been atheists***. And ***It is because I put it to you, He does not exist***

Sorry 2 proclaim this, but ur comments indicates that u are indeed an atheist although ur nick and some of what u stated suggests something else. In my perception an agnostic person won’t declare that Allah doesn’t exist nor s/he would approves evolution theory, but emerges like u are an atheist who’s not willing 2 stand up and state that he dismissed Allah completely, is it becuz u got ur doubts in regard 2 evolution theory, or u think there’s something u didn’t comprehend about Allah and creationism, that makes u mull over and think about it intensely. Oh, on the other hand, no.1 said that atheists are not warm-hearted nor I questioned their commitment 2 humanity, but they committed the worst felony upon themselves when they rebuffed Allah’s true religion and claimed He doesn’t exist, goading a lot of absentminded ppl 2 the wrong path, alongside with all the fabrications they came out with, in order 2 prove their stances.

Ur comment ***It seems to me terribly ironic that Somalis (mind you they're not the only ones) have stamped the seal of taboo on questioning or openly debating the truth or validity of God given that they argue for and against regarding every other subject known to man***

If ur portrayal about us is precise, then how would u clarify my case, since im debating with u? Plus the rational why they attempt 2 avoid such a Q, putting up shutters on the way, is becuz such a disputes will end up in dreadful manner, where each side will try 2 degrade the other end of the argument. *2 be safe is much better, than 2 be sorry*. Well, about my previous Q about ur core-intention behind crossing the threshold 2 this site, was 2 know what kind of person u are, given that most of the atheist and agonistics who participates in this forms affronts our Islamic convictions in a daily basis, so it’s good 2 add an enemy on ur *persecuting list* than 2 regret it afterwards...

*Sabad*

I couldn’t agree more sis/bro. May Allah Bless u with His grace and increase ur knowledge. *Ameen* 2 that...

*Much Esteem and Reverence*

*Bless*