DAY ONE- THE WAR WITH IRAN

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"Just ask yourself: "Could this be the message of my Creator to me?" "

I did, and the answer was no. Let me tell you why.

First and foremost, I have a very fundamental problem with the basic precept of Islam, that this life is some sort of a test.

1. God makes us the way we are.
2. God knows the future result.
3. God makes the rules of the test not known to each person. Some will know the rules well, others will have no exposure.
4. God then decides to punish with eternal damnation those who fail the test when he knew if advance what the results would be.

Now, why would God create a being that h knew in advance was going to be eternally damned? That would make God a sick masochist. Do you believe that God is a sick masochist?

I also have a problem with the notion of punishments being out of proportion to offenses and the consistency with which Islam places societies needs ahead of the individuals. Islam is all about mass conformity, which I dislike when applied to a society. I love the Army, but I don't want the whole society to function like one.

Also, some of Mohammeds OBVIOUS political ploys are over the top. Changing the direction of prayer, for exaple, and then claiming that was divine guidance. What a bunch of hogwash.

So no, I am convinced that Islam is not the way.

[qudhac-m]

Mad

What has changed? my question still stands

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Qudhac
Sorry man, forgot about that one.

Actually, from 1948 really nothing changed. US policy of military support to Israel started in 1949 and grew from there. And it can be explained in one word: Guilt. In the 30s, the Jews were free to emigrate from most European countries, and many tried to enter the US. We did not let them. Furthermore, there were many stories coming out of the third reich about the holocaust, but in many cases they were not taken seriously. We did nothing to stop it until the final phase of the war. Most of this was not out of viciousness, but ignorance. But the result was the same.

Since that time, the Israelis, most of whom are now of Western European extraction and who have similar political ideals to our own, have done a FAR better job marketting their cause. The Jewish lobby is effective and well resourced. The Arabs, in contrast, with their embracing of non-state violence, has done a very poor job of marketing their cause.

[qudhac-m]

Mad

Thanx mate for the apology

Back to the topic so in another wards Israel runs the American foriegn policy for her own benefit, or i may say its state with in state

Suldaan qudhac maygaag

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Runs American foreign policy is phrased too strongly. America has, and will in the future, do things that Israel does not approve of. In the 73 war, Israel was intent on detroying the Egyptian third Army. The US prevented that, because they felt Sadat needed some face saving room.

But there is no doubt that Israel has disproportianate influence on US foreign policy and that is linked to two things:

The US will never allow a second holocaust. The national conscience will not allow it. So the maintenance of the state of Israel is not negotiable.

The Jewish lobby is well organized and well financed. It is experienced and understands the US political system. And the Israelis conspicuously avoid religious reference in their actions and lobbying. Also, the Israelis never use phrases like "they deserved it" when civilians are killed. They can at least argue they are not targetting non-combatants. Arabs can not make that claim.

[Gedo_Boy]

MAD MAC,

I think I might be able to answer some of those questions.....bear with me I don't have time.

[qudhac-m]

Mad

We agreed that Isreal runs the American foriegn as whole and the domestic policy to some extant.
You said "you cant say the samething about Arabs", that is not true since an Arab state did not attack israel after 1973 if you are refering to Hamas, PLO,Hsbulaah well they are not states but Armed Groups fighting against occopation.
As for Holocaust America did not commit that but it commited far worst crime than that and commited agains the Blacks be the american Blacks or the south african Blacks,do you know that american jews were allowed to vote while the black american were not.
The money that America pays the Israel state should have been given to the Brothers that have subjugated to 400 years of slavery.
You are guilty of somthing that you didnt do but not guilty of the horrible crime that you guys commited and you can the legacy it left on the average Brother but i cant blame you as you are always AMERICANS AND STUPIS ALWAYS.


Suldaan qudhac maygaag

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"We agreed that Isreal runs the American foriegn as whole and the domestic policy to some extant. "

No, we don't agree. Influence and run are not the same thing.

"You said "you cant say the samething about Arabs", that is not true since an Arab state did not attack israel after 1973 if you are refering to Hamas, PLO,Hsbulaah well they are not states but Armed Groups fighting against occopation. "

I said Arabs - I didn't mention any states. But the bottom line is the Arabs, whether they are PLO or Hizbollah or whoever, if their goal is to undermine US sympathy for Israel, they are doing an extremely poor job of that. They do not market themselves well nor do they lobby the US political system well. It's as simple as that.

"As for Holocaust America did not commit that but it commited far worst crime than that and commited agains the Blacks be the american Blacks or the south african Blacks,do you know that american jews were allowed to vote while the black american were not."

What does this have to do with Israel?

"The money that America pays the Israel state should have been given to the Brothers that have subjugated to 400 years of slavery."

The issue of reperations is a complex one. I, for example, am a descendent of Native Americans. I am also of Irish descent. Do I get reperations for British and American injustices against my ancestors?

"You are guilty of somthing that you didnt do but not guilty of the horrible crime that you guys commited and you can the legacy it left on the average Brother but i cant blame you as you are always AMERICANS AND STUPIS ALWAYS. "

If Americans are stupid - then why are we rich and powerful and why are you always obsessessing on us?