nice pictures, it was africa and somalia as one of the rolplayers that recognised china, to bad that afbijo is their, guys like siyaad barre cigaal were beeing well respected by leaders of china, soon sheikh shariff will replace him, china used to be under somalia, and they had oil deals with somalia, thats why they are intrested in somalia, to bad that all those money were beeing invested by warlords
just watch on the last part of maryan mursal's clip, just watch how china leaders are behind siyaad barre
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2prlY7un4vU
President of Somalia on a national visit to China. Photos.
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This General Forum is for general discussions from daily chitchat to more serious discussions among Somalinet Forums members. Please do not use it as your Personal Message center (PM). If you want to contact a particular person or a group of people, please use the PM feature. If you want to contact the moderators, pls PM them. If you insist leaving a public message for the mods or other members, it will be deleted.
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fagash_killer
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Last edited by fagash_killer on Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kon hai phat choi.-
Enemy_Of_Mad_Mullah
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[quote="Ashlee"]:lol: Kon hai phat choi.[/quote]
http://www.jcnot4me.com/images/Bush-%20 ... %20you.jpg
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Abdiwahab, rumor has it those Majerten who accompanied him were representing Puntland , mostly MPs from Puntland. You have to know Majeerteen are inviting oil firms to explore their regions. Other Harti clans like Warsangeli and Dhulbahante opposed the mining and oil exploration, so there is no need to welcome others. This is an Economic Forum, and China invited strategic individuals or head of states whom she thinks would benefit her highly advancing nation.
Basra, thanks, you really have indepth knowledge of Hollywood. Anytime I have question about Hollywood, you will be my tutor.
Basra, thanks, you really have indepth knowledge of Hollywood. Anytime I have question about Hollywood, you will be my tutor.
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DawladSade
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They were invited. China is interested in Somalia. Puntland, for instance, sits on the largest oil and mining reserve in the whole of Somalia. Ogaden region sits on large reserves of crude oil and gas, but it is under occupation. Ethiopian government can't explore the region due to the native uprising. Unless the Tigre regime affords the Ogaden region a form of self-rule and democracy, its oil deals with oil firms will hardly ever be commenced.
MUHAMMAD, MUSLIMS, THE QURAN, AND SLAVERY
To begin with, the Quran justifies slavery, and often mentions slaves. Here are some relevant verses:
33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."
This verse clearly shows that Muslims believe that taking slaves in war was a God-given right. These slaves were considered 'booty' or the spoils of war. As the saying goes: to the victors go the spoils.
23:5 - "... except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them:..."
The passage's context here (not quoted in full) details how Muslim males are allowed to have sexual relations with their wives and slave girls. Implicit in this is that Muslim males had slave-concubines. 70:30 is basically a repeat of 23:5.
Ibn Sa'd's "Tabaqat", gives a clear description of Muhammad having "relations" with at least one of his slave girls. Muhammad had sexual relations with Mariyah, his Coptic slave. Mariyah and her sister, Sirin were slaves given as gifts to Muhammad. Muhammad gave Sirin to Hasan Thabit, the poet. Ibn Sa'd says that Muhammad "liked Mariyah, who was of white complexion, with curly hair and pretty." [Taken from Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes), p151].
Ibn Sa'd also writes that Mariyah bore Muhammad a son named Ibrahim. He died 18 months later. Sa'd writes: "If he had lived, no maternal uncle of his would have remained in bondage", p164. This shows that there were other Coptic slaves owned by the Muslims.
The Quran also instructs Muslims NOT to force their female slaves into prostitution (24:34), and even allows Muslims to marry slaves if they so desire (4:24), and to free them at times as a penalty for crime or sin (4:92, 5:89, 58:3) and even allows slaves to buy their liberty, if they meet certain of their master's conditions (24:33). [90:10 'freeing of a bondsman' refers to Muslims ransoming other Muslims who were slaves of non-Muslims.]
While I think it's nice to allow a slave to obtain his freedom, (at his master's discretion) it is tragic that Islam allows them to be enslaved in the first place. That's like robbing a bank and giving some of the money back to the bank, and thinking you did the right thing!
The above verses show that taking slaves was ordained by Allah, and that it was permissible for Muslim males to have sex with their female slaves. It also shows that slaves were a valuable commodity to the Muslims, otherwise, Allah would not have imposed the penalty of freeing a slave to make up for a crime.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUKHARI'S HADITH AND SLAVERY
There are hundreds of Hadith that deal with slavery. Whole chapters of Hadith are dedicated to dealing with the taxation, treatment, sale, and jurisprudence of slaves. In addition to this, numerous Hadith mention slaves, and their relation to their Muslim masters. Here is a selection of Hadith on slaves: [all Hadith are from Sahih Bukhari, unless noted.]
Vol. 7-#137 Narrated Abu al-Khudri: "We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's messenger about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.""
Here, Muslims had taken female slaves, and had sex with them. Muhammad approved of this. He only admonished them not to practice coitus interruptus.
Vol. 5-#459 [This Hadith is similar to the above. However, additional details are added]. Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: "I entered the mosque and saw Abu Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu said, "We went out with Allah's messenger for the Ghazwa (attack upon) Banu Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus we said "How can we do coitus interruptus without asking Allah's messenger while he is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.""
Here, the Muslims attacked the Banu Mustaliq, and took slaves. The female slaves were distributed as booty to the Muslim soldiers. Being away from home, the soldiers became horny, and want to have sexual relations with the newly captured female slaves. They went to Muhammad and asked about coitus interruptus. He told them not to practice that, but to complete the sexual act with the slaves. Related Hadith show that they didn't want to get the women pregnant because they wanted to be able to sell them later on. Under Islamic law they were not allowed to sell pregnant female slaves.
In effect, Muhammad okayed the rape of female prisoners.
Vol. 3-#765
Narrated Kuraib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."
Here a woman frees a slave girl, but Muhammad says that she would have gotten more (heavenly) reward if she had given the slave one of her uncles, thus keeping the slave in slavery.
Vol. 7-#734 "....At the door of the [Muhammad's] room there was a slave to whom I went and said, "Ask the permission for me to enter".....
This is a long Hadith, and the quote reveals that Muhammad has slaves working in his house.
Vol. 7-#344 Narrated Anas: "Allah's messenger went to the house of his slave tailor, and he was offered a dish of gourd of which he started eating. I have loved to eat gourd since I saw Allah's messenger eating it."
This Hadith shows that another one of Muhammad's slaves was a tailor. #346 gives additional details.
Vol. 5-#541 Narrated Abu Huraira: When we conquered Khaibar, we gained neither gold nor silver as booty, but we gained cows, camels, goods and gardens. Then we departed with Allah's apostle to the valley of Al-Qira, and at that time Allah's messenger had a slave called Midam who had been presented to him by one of Banu Ad-Dibbab. While the slave was dismounting the saddle of Allah's messenger an arrow the thrower of which was unknown, came and hit him.....
This Hadith shows that Muhammad held a slave, who was struck with an arrow.
Vol. 5-#637 Narrated Buraida: The prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus ([one fifth] of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes" He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus."
To begin with, the Quran justifies slavery, and often mentions slaves. Here are some relevant verses:
33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."
This verse clearly shows that Muslims believe that taking slaves in war was a God-given right. These slaves were considered 'booty' or the spoils of war. As the saying goes: to the victors go the spoils.
23:5 - "... except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them:..."
The passage's context here (not quoted in full) details how Muslim males are allowed to have sexual relations with their wives and slave girls. Implicit in this is that Muslim males had slave-concubines. 70:30 is basically a repeat of 23:5.
Ibn Sa'd's "Tabaqat", gives a clear description of Muhammad having "relations" with at least one of his slave girls. Muhammad had sexual relations with Mariyah, his Coptic slave. Mariyah and her sister, Sirin were slaves given as gifts to Muhammad. Muhammad gave Sirin to Hasan Thabit, the poet. Ibn Sa'd says that Muhammad "liked Mariyah, who was of white complexion, with curly hair and pretty." [Taken from Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes), p151].
Ibn Sa'd also writes that Mariyah bore Muhammad a son named Ibrahim. He died 18 months later. Sa'd writes: "If he had lived, no maternal uncle of his would have remained in bondage", p164. This shows that there were other Coptic slaves owned by the Muslims.
The Quran also instructs Muslims NOT to force their female slaves into prostitution (24:34), and even allows Muslims to marry slaves if they so desire (4:24), and to free them at times as a penalty for crime or sin (4:92, 5:89, 58:3) and even allows slaves to buy their liberty, if they meet certain of their master's conditions (24:33). [90:10 'freeing of a bondsman' refers to Muslims ransoming other Muslims who were slaves of non-Muslims.]
While I think it's nice to allow a slave to obtain his freedom, (at his master's discretion) it is tragic that Islam allows them to be enslaved in the first place. That's like robbing a bank and giving some of the money back to the bank, and thinking you did the right thing!
The above verses show that taking slaves was ordained by Allah, and that it was permissible for Muslim males to have sex with their female slaves. It also shows that slaves were a valuable commodity to the Muslims, otherwise, Allah would not have imposed the penalty of freeing a slave to make up for a crime.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUKHARI'S HADITH AND SLAVERY
There are hundreds of Hadith that deal with slavery. Whole chapters of Hadith are dedicated to dealing with the taxation, treatment, sale, and jurisprudence of slaves. In addition to this, numerous Hadith mention slaves, and their relation to their Muslim masters. Here is a selection of Hadith on slaves: [all Hadith are from Sahih Bukhari, unless noted.]
Vol. 7-#137 Narrated Abu al-Khudri: "We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's messenger about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.""
Here, Muslims had taken female slaves, and had sex with them. Muhammad approved of this. He only admonished them not to practice coitus interruptus.
Vol. 5-#459 [This Hadith is similar to the above. However, additional details are added]. Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: "I entered the mosque and saw Abu Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu said, "We went out with Allah's messenger for the Ghazwa (attack upon) Banu Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus we said "How can we do coitus interruptus without asking Allah's messenger while he is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.""
Here, the Muslims attacked the Banu Mustaliq, and took slaves. The female slaves were distributed as booty to the Muslim soldiers. Being away from home, the soldiers became horny, and want to have sexual relations with the newly captured female slaves. They went to Muhammad and asked about coitus interruptus. He told them not to practice that, but to complete the sexual act with the slaves. Related Hadith show that they didn't want to get the women pregnant because they wanted to be able to sell them later on. Under Islamic law they were not allowed to sell pregnant female slaves.
In effect, Muhammad okayed the rape of female prisoners.
Vol. 3-#765
Narrated Kuraib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."
Here a woman frees a slave girl, but Muhammad says that she would have gotten more (heavenly) reward if she had given the slave one of her uncles, thus keeping the slave in slavery.
Vol. 7-#734 "....At the door of the [Muhammad's] room there was a slave to whom I went and said, "Ask the permission for me to enter".....
This is a long Hadith, and the quote reveals that Muhammad has slaves working in his house.
Vol. 7-#344 Narrated Anas: "Allah's messenger went to the house of his slave tailor, and he was offered a dish of gourd of which he started eating. I have loved to eat gourd since I saw Allah's messenger eating it."
This Hadith shows that another one of Muhammad's slaves was a tailor. #346 gives additional details.
Vol. 5-#541 Narrated Abu Huraira: When we conquered Khaibar, we gained neither gold nor silver as booty, but we gained cows, camels, goods and gardens. Then we departed with Allah's apostle to the valley of Al-Qira, and at that time Allah's messenger had a slave called Midam who had been presented to him by one of Banu Ad-Dibbab. While the slave was dismounting the saddle of Allah's messenger an arrow the thrower of which was unknown, came and hit him.....
This Hadith shows that Muhammad held a slave, who was struck with an arrow.
Vol. 5-#637 Narrated Buraida: The prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus ([one fifth] of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes" He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus."
Listen you ignorant idiot, you need to learn the proper etiquette to engage in a constructive debate.
Slavery in that era can best be equated to prisoners of war. The enemy who is caught during the battle can be imprisoned and women be married off to the Mujaahidiins as concubines. They can buy off their bondages by converting into Islam.
What is morally wrong about holding combatants as prisoners. Infidels who want to hold your territory and people captive. The West you so admire and adulate torture prisoners, justifying their case to obtain information under duress. You idiot , cuqdad-ridden iidoor, know nothing of your boundaries.
Slavery in that era can best be equated to prisoners of war. The enemy who is caught during the battle can be imprisoned and women be married off to the Mujaahidiins as concubines. They can buy off their bondages by converting into Islam.
What is morally wrong about holding combatants as prisoners. Infidels who want to hold your territory and people captive. The West you so admire and adulate torture prisoners, justifying their case to obtain information under duress. You idiot , cuqdad-ridden iidoor, know nothing of your boundaries.
I was watching programmes about the meeting on Chinese tv and some of the comments used relating to Chino African relations included clips from the Somali ambassador to china. I have to say I wasnÂ’t that impressed with his level of English, I mean how that guy got his job his beyond me. Anyway, I thought the delegates going there were supposed to be foreign ministers and ambassadors but I guess it doesnÂ’t hurt having the president there as well.
I thought it was great to see a Somali president however useless and undeserving walking down that red carpet in China representing Somalia. I hope he will come back feeling like a head of state rather than an Ethiopian puppet and act like a head of state.
On the Chino African forum, I totally think China is just using Africa for its resources but at least the Africans can take advantage of this and develop Africa. However African leaders being what they are, I doubt that will happen. Anyway, at least China is better than America and the EU when it comes to winning hearts and minds. The hospitals, roads and stadium it built in Somalia are still standing.
I thought it was great to see a Somali president however useless and undeserving walking down that red carpet in China representing Somalia. I hope he will come back feeling like a head of state rather than an Ethiopian puppet and act like a head of state.
On the Chino African forum, I totally think China is just using Africa for its resources but at least the Africans can take advantage of this and develop Africa. However African leaders being what they are, I doubt that will happen. Anyway, at least China is better than America and the EU when it comes to winning hearts and minds. The hospitals, roads and stadium it built in Somalia are still standing.
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