Let us debate like Men,UNITY DEBATE.

[The_Emperior5]

Gadabuursi isnt Idoor either you dumb fuck ! Stop mentioning our name lax yahay

you finally gave up pretending you were habar younis miyaa

[Alchemist]

The south should do all it can to negotiate with Somaliland. War is out of the question for sure and if the people of the North dont want to join their brothers in the South there is nothing anyone can do about it.

[Mondey]

1. 50% of the members of Parliament must hail from the North.

within this 50% MPs Harti and Dir must have 50% and Isaaq 50% . would u agree now ?

[Mondey]

Roving

The only fair way out is to let the people of Somaliland decide their own fate. It's the only moral thing to do and besides you can't forcefully ask someone to join you when they don't want anything to do with you. This walaaltinimo none-sense is as phony as the people that make them. Somalilanders voluntarily joined Somalia ( Union is a word some of you need to look in the dictionary) based on Somali brotherhood but were welcomed with destruction of their regions and the total displacement of their people. Stuff about fool me once shame on you applies here.

in other words you are saying we let Isaaq decide for Hart and Dir ? because thats what a somaliland referendum means with Isaaq being majority in a ratio 60:40 %

i say we make regional referendums for each clan, one in Awdal one in Sool and won in hargaisa. and i bet only one of them will vote yes.

[GeoDesic]

First of all any of you who carry grudges with you into this room can leave.
I'll be asking questions to kick-off this debate.
To the Unionists
Say,if the government in the south get's all it's cities and borders,seas together,how will they approach Somaliland in the concept of Unity?

To present their case for separation. It will not be politicians but representatives of people like Elders from each Clan that will be given the forum to present Somaliland case.

A- It will not be acceptable for one clan, whether they are majority or minority, to decide the future of the Entire North.
B- Each clan will present their voice in the forum without reservation.


A vote will be taken that will decide then the future of that part of Somalia. If majority of representatives agree that there is no case for separation, that will be the decision Somalis will take. Fairness to all somalis. One thing that is rotten now about this Somaliland issue is because it is one clan agenda or seems to be. Other voices need to be heard for a final decision. I think that is fair and can be done.

If a war breaks out after Majority rules for Unity, Count me in to be at the frontlines of that war to keep Somalis whole and defeat renegades.

[ZubeirAwal]

First of all any of you who carry grudges with you into this room can leave.
I'll be asking questions to kick-off this debate.
To the Unionists
Say,if the government in the south get's all it's cities and borders,seas together,how will they approach Somaliland in the concept of Unity?

To present their case for separation. It will not be politicians but representatives of people like Elders from each Clan that will be given the forum to present Somaliland case.

A- It will not be acceptable for one clan, whether they are majority or minority to decide the future of the Entire North.
B- Each clan will present their voice in the forum without reservation.


A vote will be taken that will decide then the future of that part of Somalia. If majority representatives agree that there is no case for separation, that will be the decision Somalis will take. Fairness to all somalis.

I agree with this
An Isaaq elder representing isaaqs
A samaroon elder representing the samaroons
and a Harti elder representing the Harti's.

[hargaysaay]

1. 50% of the members of Parliament must hail from the North.

within this 50% MPs Harti and Dir must have 50% and Isaaq 50% . would u agree now ?

are out of your sanity isaaq is 80% of somalia for god sake

[The_Emperior5]

Guys u are Abusing the debate the question is not that should somaliland be independent or not the question is how and what kind of relations will it have with Somalia Somaliland independence is done that is not even up for negotiations, I saw one person saying we should all let every region have a seperate referendum,,in 1960 when Somaliland and Somalia were uniting did we ask every region of Somaliland wether they wanted to be part of Somalia or not i thought so , Somalilanders coexist its not up to you to interefere in Somaliland internal affairs if you guys do that we will do the same to you and your country.last but not least there was a person who said that Somaliland has nothing and thus it should be independent dear friend if all your people thought the same there wouldn't any problem we do not have anything its just our little dessert we love it more than you love your tropical Somalia.

[Mondey]

1. 50% of the members of Parliament must hail from the North.

within this 50% MPs Harti and Dir must have 50% and Isaaq 50% . would u agree now ?

are out of your sanity isaaq is 80% of somalia for god sake

^ i think u mean isaaq is 80% of somaliland which still is NOT true, but lets suppose it is..

following ur logic isaaq is 20% of all Somalis then how on earth are u demanding 50-50 share with the rest of Somalis ?

[The_Emperior5]

monday isaaq is not demanding anything from Somalis or the people from Somalia where did you get that nonsense from

[Coeus]

Guys u are Abusing the debate the question is not that should somaliland be independent or not the question is how and what kind of relations will it have with Somalia Somaliland independence is done that is not even up for negotiations, I saw one person saying we should all let every region have a seperate referendum,,in 1960 when Somaliland and Somalia were uniting did we ask every region of Somaliland wether they wanted to be part of Somalia or not i thought so , Somalilanders coexist its not up to you to interefere in Somaliland internal affairs if you guys do that we will do the same to you and your country.last but not least there was a person who said that Somaliland has nothing and thus it should be independent dear friend if all your people thought the same there wouldn't any problem we do not have anything its just our little dessert we love it more than you love your tropical Somalia.

[ZubeirAwal]

hawiye=25%
isaaq = 22 %
darod=20%
rahanwein=17%
samaroon&cisse = 7 %
digil=3%
ethnic minorities 6 %

total=100%

[yunis09]

hawiye=25%
isaaq = 22 %
darod=20%
rahanwein=17%
samaroon&cisse = 7 %
digil=3%
ethnic minorities 6 %

total=100%

in thats case small clans form the majority 27% (rahanwien + digil =20% i believe the true figures for these clans is higher)

[Salah Al-Din]

As-Salaamu Alaikum,

I do not see why people need to inject clan into everything. Somaliland has moved away from clan politics and is based on a multi-party system. Any future legitimate government for Somalia Proper would also not be based on 4.5 system or some other clan formula. So lets park the clan issue right there.

Now, after some 22 pages the polling of Somalis from Somalia Proper is rather disturbing. It is an attitude of continual hostilities in one form or another. I'd like to think it comes from the current psyche in Somalia Proper that has caused so much chaos. It is hard for people who support different factions in the conflict in Somalia Proper to think objectively. Naturally they will be hostile to Somaliland as well, and therefore should not be taken as a representation of the future citizens of a future legitimate government of Somalia Proper. The argument here is, just as Somalia Proper will need an equitable & legitimate government, it will also need a more educated & just citizenship. If not, then obviously the conflict will continue and Somalia Proper would never get out of the abyss.

Considering the above, we can safely dismiss many of the clanish & over the top arguments we see here as premature. We should continue to pray for Somalia Proper to get peace and reconcile withitself. We should do whatever we can as a brotherly nation be it taking part of the efforts of the famine or taking in refugees. It is a moral duty. It is the Islamic thing to do. Even if at times you may feel they are ungrateful. This comes to mind when those refugees from Somalia Proper were demanding the right to vote in Somaliland's Presidential elections. They just came from a wartorn nation, their safety is gaurenteed and yet they want something they are not entitled to? This in somali is called damaaci nimo or in english pure "greed". I have a feeling this greed is the reason Somalia Proper may never become peaceful, and is its downfall. One thing must be emphasized though, to continue to claim the jurisdiction of Somaliland is a hostile move and will be repelled at any cost. The battle lines are drawn.

There are some green shoots though, in my own friends and even here in this forum where the likes of RovvingMadness can come to terms with the reality that Somaliland is its own nation and Somalia Proper must respect it. I beleive the future is bright in the horn if we all embrace the inevitable.

[SahanGalbeed]

Well said salahudin , let's pray for Somalia PROPER