Rationalizing modern Somali origin theories with oral histor

[gurey25]

I doubt the walashama or wali asma dynasty was Somali.
They were probably semetic speaking like the amhara and the southern people like the Gurage and haddiya today.

the walasham dynasty is said to have conquered shoa in 1258, so it must have taken power long before that, they are probably as old as the solominic dynasty.

Ahmed gurey could ahve been somali becuase the Army of ADAL was dominated by Somali and Afar.
and ahmed gurey is said to have overthrown the Sultan by coup and was not part of the royal family.

[Sadaam_Mariixmaan]

it is said he's sister name was FARDUSA

[NoAngst.]

[quote="James Dahl"]The origin of Somalis definitely starts in the Tana river valley, north of Lamu. The Digil and Mirifle (Rahanweyn) people however, have a different origin, as they began as a Rendille tribe in southern Ethiopia, and migrated down the Shabelle to Bay and Bakool at a much later date (17th century). [/quote]

Your history is whack to say the least. Take the above quote for example. What hard evidence do you have attesting to the above account? By all conventional accounts the Rahanweyn (also called reewin) nation has been in S/Somalia in and around the fertile regions for more than 1500s. The much younger Hawiye, as per linguistic analysis, have been documented to exist in Marka region in the 1100s.

Further, I noticed folly in your History of Somalia... mainly stemming from your heavely reliance on folktales and other unreliable lore as substitute for sound modern linguistic analysis in tandem with updated population migrations in the Horn.

[Demure]

Gurey, That was an impressive debate on your end.

Good topic.

[PragmaticGal]

I really can't tell who's making stronger points because I have no idea what they are going on about.

[gurey25]

James has interesting ideas, but he does go to extreme lenghts, and ignores some facts

but i like his open mind.

allot of the subject involved is a grey area, and we can only hypothezise.

The period between 700 and 1000 is a grey area, there are no accurate sources.

1000 AD onwards is much clearer and there are many sources.

[DEMOLITION MAN]

to the OP

Intresting books where did you get them ?

Are they available on Amazon ?

[Warsame101]

[quote="gurey25"]

while the shiekh isaaq oral history states that he too arrived in maydh but around 2 centuries later in the mid 1200's. Now here it is different, he had 2 wives the first one was the daughter of a prominent shiekh in Harar where he spent a good part of his time, and the other wife from the magadle dir clan which inhabited sanaag and still survive in small numbers today.
the magaadle dir are part of the mahe dir from which several southern clans decend from as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dir_(clan)#Mahe_Dir [/quote]

Oral history states that Sheikh Isaaq had three wives, two from the Magaadle Dir and one was an Ethiopian slave.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... Ishaak.gif

Source: Ralph Evelyn

Lewis also states:
"Habar Magaadleh is the uterine group comprising all the descendants of Sh. Isaaq who are not the issue of his Ethiopian wife (Habar abuusheed) in opposition to the latter. This cleavage is that stressed when there is friction between the Habar Jaclo clan and the Habar Yuunis. In this context and with the current unpopularity of the Ethiopians the Habar Yuunis taunt the Habar Jaclo for not being Somalis at all, but Ethiopians."



Moving on, the Gallas (i.e. Oromos) were actually quite powerful but were no match for the Daarood.

[James Dahl]

This puts the era of Hawiye and Dir quite a ways back if you're right then, as there's no way the Dir lineage can be correct if Dir lived before 700. That would make Dir and Hawiye mythical, and actually seperate tribes.

[gurey25]

Dir and hawiye are seperate yet closely related clans.
their common ancester irir might probably exist, but Samaale may be mythical

[NoAngst.]

[quote="James Dahl"]That would make Dir and Hawiye mythical, and actually seperate tribes.[/quote]

This explains the source of your otherwise inexplicable historical revisionism. You don't even know that Dir and Hawiye are two different clans. Dir and Hawiye are brothers both being the sons of Samaale, the father of Somali nation. Samaale is to Somalis what Ishma'il was to arabs, their eponym and proginator.