BBC Kismayo killed by Hutus

[snowflakes821]

I'm starting to see why I never have been sent to Somalia, even though my parents have laid many empty threats of "you're going to Somalia if you don't behave" throughout my childhood.

You've never been to Somalia because you're Hawiye. Duh.

[FAH1223]

I'm starting to see why I never have been sent to Somalia, even though my parents have laid many empty threats of "you're going to Somalia if you don't behave" throughout my childhood.

You've never been to Somalia because you're Hawiye. Duh.

Cajiib, a tribalist in our midst! I've actually had people from this forum say "Go to Xamar because you are Hawiye! But don't tell them you have a Darod mother!"

I swear, Somalis are funny people

ANYWAY Not really. I have relatives in Hiiraan right now who operate the banks and the hotels in Bulo Burte, my clan's main town. I can go there, anytime. Its more of just having the extra cash and time to go to Somalia, which my parents haven't really had to be honest. My pops keeps contact with some of his cousins who operate their businesses in our family's name.

My dad's last trip to Africa was 2004, but he hasn't been on Somali territory since he was my age.

I have relatives, who are HAWIYE, in HARGEYSA operating their own business and medical centers. I have my own reer abti who go from Hargeysa to UAE on regular basis. I'm glad my family is a United Nations Somali style thing, where we have relatives from all over the country with different clan backgrounds. I've actually had invites to go, but nothing has been organized maybe next year I'll go with my awoowe.

[snowflakes821]

Cajiib, a tribalist in our midst!

Whatever. Truth hurts. But the fact of the matter is any Somali region that has stability and peace is NOT inhabited by Hawiye. That's why your family doesn't go back.

[Shirib]

Now can you guys leave Somaliland alone? Seriously, i'm tired of you guys hating on the only shining light of these past 20 years. An independendent Somaliland is good for the hell hole Somalia. Maybe then the Hutus could finally get it together.

We just want u to enjoy the anarchy we have, its loads of fun I tell ya.

[Murax]

Horta I think a xuruufle was behind this. Too many xuruufles on the loose in kismaayo.

[FAH1223]

Cajiib, a tribalist in our midst!

Whatever. Truth hurts. But the fact of the matter is any Somali region that has stability and peace is NOT inhabited by Hawiye. That's why your family doesn't go back.

I've actually said that all the fighting is in Hawiye inhabited territories. All the time. Its the reality everyone sees that. There have been some conferences my dad told me about and thats what the message was on. Mogadishu, Benadir, the brunt of all the conflict...I'd say 85% of it all and then you have incidents like this in Kismaayo.

Our region and others like ours shouldn't be subjected to the stupid leg pulls of the Ethiopian lackeys and the warlords, so its time for the power to be put in the hands of the CLAN ELDERS and CHIEFS (some of the most respected among Somalis) who have more legitimacy and respect of the people...Local governance has been neglected for this whole while and its starting to rise up in some places like Galmudug intiative, Gedo, ect, ect...

There was some light at the end of the tunnel in 2006, but that was squashed and killed.

Actually a few people of my family HAVE moved back to Hargeysa and Hiiraan, respectively. But a lot have been in the USA since the 80s and have built their own lives and means of wealth here.

I just haven't visited due to time and/or financials for the most part. And it looks like I won't for a little while more, insha allah I will be though.

Anyway, why don't you focus on Somaliland? To be honest, none of this really concerns you and if all you want to do is look down on people such as myself for where I come from and what happens in areas where I and my clan come from, then I suggest you go to the clan section or the local coffee shop.

But if you're interested, this is a good article that sums of my feelings a bit:

http://www.hiiraan.com/op2/2008/may/loc ... malia.aspx

Hiiraan is located in the centre of Somalia and it produced some of the most revered politicians Somalia has ever known including the founding father of the Republic, President Aden Abdulle Osman as well as astute politicians such as the star MP of 1960s politics, Sheikh Ali Jimale and Abdullahi Isse, the first Prime Minister of Somalia under the Italian Trusteeship Administration . In terms of culture, traditional Hiiraan chiefs are some the most genuine and respected in the country and therefore it is indeed unacceptable and unbecoming of Hiiraan to be a theatre of mediocre politics and unending and useless wars.

The same can be said of the rest of the country.

[Voltage]

Somaliweyn-

On your first point, I truly hope that young Hawiyes and even not so young can collectively see what is going on against them as a collective injustice and be forced to plan for and build the necessary organized apparatus to never let their people be abused again, though as of the moment this is more wishful thinking then the rosy-colored analysis you seem to have displayed. Even so, for Hawiye's sake and for Somalia's sake, I hope they are going through the process as you have outlined.

As for the second part, your saying the traditional system is "primitive" is exactly reminiscent of your clan and why warlordism has taken rife in your clan, especially. If you were a Darood or Isaaq youth, you would have more veneration for the traditional system that keeps our people organized and semi-governed then address it in haughty terms. Even prior to the anarchy and prior to modernization, the traditional system of Guurti was something that was alien to Hawiye and they were as disorganized and anarchic as they are today. Your outlook on it, therefore, is nothing different then what the foreigners analyzed.

The Guurti is a highly developed, egalitarian, legislative council. It is more democratic and freerer then the democracies of all the so-called democracies in this world. If modern Western democracy is child of Roman governance, and the exact legislative bodies of all Western countries today is the child of the Roman Senate thousand years ago, what makes our free, democratic egalitarian system "primitive"? The advanced system when applied by the people who have developed it works perfectly. Today the Guurti is a form of Somaliland governance and sits there along with the Presidency and Congress, it is a form of the Puntland system, and its apparatus has kept Gedo region relatively better off than all of the south even when Gedo region was facing the most fighting and discord.

Still I am glad you understand that because the advanced system is not truly part of Hawiye heritage, it is they, out of all Somalis who suffered the most since the destruction of the state and who even today are still suffering the most. It is what created the warlordism that Hawiye engineered and entered into the Somali lexicon.

As for my group.

As you have said and I backed up, this group went through several stages to enjoy now the peace, prosperity, and political unity (atleast where national politics is concerned) that they now enjoy. Initially this group was fighting against other clans principally the USC and RRA, then it was internal in clan vs religious groups, sub-clans vs. subclans, and then against Ethiopia. The transformation of the group's unity derived from a shared and collective experience of destruction was facilitated by the fact that at the last quarter in the time-span fighting against Ethiopia, all those who had previously been in Ethiopia's side had defected back to unite with the opposing camp of the clan. Cumar Xaaji, Isaaq Biixi (who was even caught afterwards by the Ethiopians fighting on the border between Beled-Xaawo and Ethi) had all by then united with the other half of the clan, and this is the foundation for the strong unity that now exists. The group from then on shared a collective experience at the hands of the Ethiopians and this provided the necessary reasons for them to unite in order to never let their enemies get the better of them.

So while, Somaliland and Puntland had the apparatus formed as a result of the resistance against Siyaad, so too did Sade people against the shared and united resistance against Ethiopia. This is why this clan has played politics like a advanced strategians and is now arguably in the best position possibly from Somaliland to Kenya border. No one disputes this. Lately in coffee shops and other meeting venues I come across so many Hawiye saying (and I am not repeating this because of vanity) "alla Mareexaan siyaasadaysanaa, alla Mareexaan yaa ka siyaasad badiyo", "walle Soomaali kala har, wax badan baa la yiri mareexaan siyaad baa baadiye ka keenay oo garaado lawada siiyey ee Soomaali maanta ayay is baratay", etc. This is the reality. Infact you said my clan is equally divided between whatever sections and I have to school you and say, in fact no my clan is not equally divided. My clan is for the most part very sympathetic to the MOgadishu plight, but my clan is not divided nationally...in fact it is the opposite! My clan is united to be neutral and only take into consideration our own wellbeing. It is selfish, no one denies this, but it is reflective of the Somalil civil war, national legacy of division, and our own particular long-experience with destruction. We are united nationally because we see ourselves as a single entity with a single objective, a single vision. Our hearts go out to Mogadishu, but our cognitive thinking put emphasis on political strategy in order to save our own skins. There i nothing Abdullahi Yusuf would like to do even more than what he is doing to Hawiye then to have the Ethiopians marching to Kismaayo and entering there as president. Preventing this politically is our first priority and it is something we have thus far succeeded in.

This is why I disagreed with you on the Hawiye example you gave. Hawiye I am afraid has not equally shared the oppression of the Ethiopians and the Hawiye still do not have the "us vs. them" simple because many of the "us" are Hawiye while many of the "them", including the actual Somali footsoldiers of the Ethiopians, are Hawiye. It is very hard to derive the necessary foundations for a future organization and governance apparatus simple because the experience is not a singular, collective experience.

[Somaliweyn]

Voltage,

I am short on time, but I will explain to you how your views are somehow biased and shaped by prejudices. Consequently I will show you that this ''Guurti'' you talk of is just one factor of creating governing structures, and that this ''Guurti'' you talk of exist within Hawiye subclans. Besides that I will explain that the ''Guurti'' of Gedo region are as ineffective as lets say the ones in Hiiraan region.

As for your other point of our group is so ''political advanced'' well what supporting evidence do you have except for ''alleged Hawiye individuals praising your group''. To be honest, I fail to see how the current status of your group can be labelled as ''political advanced''. You have failed in even governing one city (Kismanyo) while the city is firmly within your control since other groups are preoccupied with other affaires. Please explain, because honestly I am curious what exactly constitutes as ''political advanced'' in your reasoning.

[The-Screw]

bump.

[Voltage]

Somaliweyn, we are all biased in our own ways but I will say your bias outweighs mine. As for the foundation for what I have said, Kismaayo itself is proof of advance politics and effective political strategy. It does not need you to admit nor for me to convince you. Abdullahi Yusuf certainly has and privately he did with even big named Sades.

Also as for the Guurti, I have brought an accurate analysis written by Western observers who correctly analyzed the position of the Guurti in my and your group as well as the consequence of that position:

3.11. Gedo region
In the Gedo region, clan elders enjoy greater respect and authority than in many other parts of
southern Somalia...According to Ken Menkhaus, there can found, in some of the region's districts, commitment and
authority comparable to those met with in north-eastern and north-western Somalia.

As for politics in Kismaayo, you have to understand and differentiate the process OF governance and the ability FOR governance. It is not the ability FOR governance that is the problem in Kismaayo, which is what your group has not conquered, but rather the process OF governance. Democracy is not smooth even here in the U.S where Hillary Clinton supporters feel disenfranchised enough to vote for McCain. Various sections in Kismaayo feel disenfranchised and want to get their political shares but no one is opposed to governance or the ability to govern. This is what you need to understand.

Thanks screw.

[RIIGHAYE]

DowladSade, you have grown up.

[ModerateMuslim]

First I am not fond of primitive pastoral culture and its socio-political institutions. It is exactly this pastoral way of life and its impact on our culture, society and politics why we have lagged behind in progress.

with that nick and dissing our culture = irony at its best.

instead of wasting your time, writing useless essays, how about you educate yourself?

maybe you can learn about the germanic people and the roots of their culture (i.e. the 'ideal culture' that you seem to be yearning for).

p.s., i could make it about qabil, but since i'm above it, i'll not.

[Alluring]

I have said this for many years wallahi. Mooryan's only kill educated person, remember they did that back in the Civil War? And they will CONTINUE to do that, and they use anything they can get to spew their lies whether it be qabiil or religion. They have no morals! They drove Isaaq's crazy that those people designed a flag, have their own currency, national anthem.

All the reer magaals are long gone from Xamar, either dead, displaced, or aging as I type this. Until we stand up and destroy these animals 50 years from now this will continue.

[MJ-Pride]

I went to the local starbucks coffe shop today and Some Marehans in there said this killing is related to the killing of Ahmed Bariyow(Majerten), who was slain on May 18th by a reer Dalaal man. They said the Majerteens get their revenge by killing this guy who's related to the guys who killed Ahmed Bariyow. This is article covers that murder on May 18th

http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/pub ... rker.shtml


Same old revenge cycle myn

[sadeboi]

Walle hadi la so ogaado in uu majeertaan dhilay ninka dee reer-dalal qofki na iga celiyo ba la arki.