Do Turks hate Islam?

[Hyperactive]

not turkish but the controling militery in the power and they dont even hate but desprate to be eccepted in europian unoin.

[SummerRain]

No. They dont hate Islam. I have few turkish friends mostly girls and they are good muslims who practice Islam. You can compare their gov't who would do anything to be part of the EU to the regular ppl.

[QansaGabeyle]

amazed at people who supposedly say they are Muslim are scared of Islam

That is why munaafiqs are worse than outright kafirs.

As for the question, I agree with Abushabaab. The most religious turks are those abroad in Germany and other parts of the world. The government(the military really) is the one that is anti islam. Sephardic jews have more freedom in Turkey than practicing muslims. Asking that question is like asking if Somalis are muslim since almost all our governments were anti islamic.

[Gedo_Boy]

No, Turks don't hate Islam, this is just propaganda. That's too simplistic. Turkey was running a Caliphate while the whole Arabian peninsula revolted against them and supported Britain and fought in Britain's armies against the Caliph.

Don't you know about the Muslims who were sabotaging the Ottoman Caliphate and siding with the British? Including Saud royal family, the so-called Hashemites of Jordan, some of the highest ranking freemasons in the Levant.

Do you know that the last SultanCaliph of Turkey refused to sell Palestine to the Zionsts saying it was a trust entrusted to him while idiot Muslims were fighting and dying fighting the Turks in General Allenby's armies in Palestine?

There is WAY too much history here for this to be a yes or no question.

========

Turkey is ruled by a small elite, essentially the military generals and the state apparatus enforces the 'secular' doctrine of the 'founder of modern Turkey' Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. They are not Sunni, they claim to be Alawite or something, but they could be of Donme Jewish extraction. That is why the military strictly maintains secular doctrines, despite there being support for Islamic doctrine in Turkey. The current AKP party was almost banned for trying to reinstitute the hijab back into Turkish society.

Ataturk and the CUP 'Young Turk' movement was essentially Freemasonic and CryptoJewish (outwardly Muslim, secretly Jewish) followers of Sabbatai Tzvi, who was considered for a portion of his life to be a Messiah of the Jews. Most of the YoungTurk movement was Doenme Jews from Selonika.

This very group had some connections with Jabotinsky of Russian Revolution fame and both the Armenian genocide and the Bolshevik Revolution were essentially ZionistJewish movements.

In fact, there's some evidence that Ataturk himself was not Muslim, but secretly Jewish

[FAH1223]

I know about the Turks v. Arabs thing, the fall of the Ottomans and what not.

But you're telling me, Attaturk was a Jew?

[Aliyah99]

Majority don't hate Islam but lets be honest we all know the difference between a moderate progressive nation like Malaysia and Turkey (+ their descendants in Albania, Kosovo) these muslims drink Vodka Call themselves Ahmedovich and Ismailovich and very hedonistic lifestyle.. they have a very liberal culture as opposed to the Pakistani very conservative culture. Islam can be mixed with cultural beliefs and local traditions. Even in Somalia FGM is a cultural practice that was seen as Islamic by the majority of the uneducated masses. I'm sure Turks and other muslims would be horrified to think other muslims do that!

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Asalamu alikum to all

I don't believe they hate Islam, however their not practising muslims (some, not all by all means) and do for the most part live a very secular lifestyle. I agree with Gedo boy on his most points, but don't believe that Ataturk was a Jew. The country might be secretly run by them now, but all everything can't be blamed on them

Aliyah Malayasians don't drink ALCOHOL! And for the most part are more religious then Turks (speaking about each people in their respective countries).

I really like Malayasia.

And Allah knows best.
Wasalam

[Kukri]

What do you think?

What makes you think you can ask such stupid QuesTion?


Do Somalis hate HumANitYY?

[Gedo_Boy]

FAH,

This is something you can research yourself. He was born in Selonika, which at one point had the highest concentration of Jews in all of Europe, at one point 70%.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus14348.html

Secular Father
The Doenme were an underground sect of Sabbetaians, Turkish Jews who took Muslim names and outwardly behaved like Muslims but secretly believed in Sabbetai Zevi, the 17th-century false messiah, and conducted carefully guarded prayers and rituals in his name. The encyclopedia's version of Ataturk's education, however, is somewhat at variance with his own. Here is his account of it as quoted by his biographers:
"My father was a man of liberal views, rather hostile to religion, and a partisan of Western ideas. He would have preferred to see me go to a * lay school, which did not found its teaching on the Koran but on modern science.
"In this battle of consciences, my father managed to gain the victory after a small maneuver; he pretended to give in to my mother's wishes, and arranged that I should enter the [Islamic] school of Fatma Molla Kadin with the traditional ceremony. ...
"Six months later, more or less, my father quietly withdrew me from the school and took me to that of old Shemsi Effendi who directed a free preparatory school according to European methods. My mother made no objection, since her desires had been complied with and her conventions respected. It was the ceremony above all which had satisfied her."
Who was Mustafa Kemal's father, who behaved here in typical Doenme fashion, outwardly observing Muslim ceremonies while inwardly scoffing at them? Ataturk's mother Zubeyde came from the mountains west of Salonika, close to the current Albanian frontier; of the origins of his father, Ali Riza, little is known. Different writers have given them as Albanian, Anatolian and Salonikan, and Lord Kinross' compendious 1964 "Ataturk" calls Ali Riza a "shadowy personality" and adds cryptically regarding Ataturk's reluctance to disclose more about his family background: "To the child of so mixed an environment it would seldom occur, wherever his racial loyalties lay, to inquire too exactly into his personal origins beyond that of his parentage."


Learning Hebrew
Did Kinross suspect more than he was admitting? I would never have asked had I not recently come across a remarkable chapter while browsing in the out-of-print Hebrew autobiography of Itamar Ben-Avi, son of Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, the leading promoter of the revival of spoken Hebrew in late 19th-century Palestine. Ben-Avi, the first child to be raised in Hebrew since ancient times and later a Hebrew journalist and newspaper publisher, writes in this book of walking into the Kamenitz Hotel in Jerusalem one autumn night in 1911 and being asked by its proprietor: " 'Do you see that Turkish officer sitting there in the corner, the one* with the bottle of arrack?' "
" 'Yes.' "
" 'He's one of the most important officers in the Turkish army.' "
" 'What's his name?' "
" 'Mustafa Kemal.' "
" 'I'd like to meet him,' I said, because the minute I looked at him I was startled by his piercing green eyes."
Ben-Avi describes two meetings with Mustafa Kemal, who had not yet taken the name of Ataturk, 'Father of the Turks.' Both were conducted in French, were largely devoted to Ottoman politics, and were doused with large amounts of arrack. In the first of these, Kemal confided:
"I'm a descendant of Sabbetai Zevi - not indeed a Jew any more, but an ardent admirer of this prophet of yours. My opinion is that every Jew in this country would do well to join his camp."
During their second meeting, held 10 days later in the same hotel, Mustafa Kemal said at one point:"
'I have at home a Hebrew Bible printed in Venice. It's rather old, and I remember my father bringing me to a Karaite teacher who taught me to read it. I can still remember a few words of it, such as --' "
And Ben-Avi continues:
"He paused for a moment, his eyes searching for something in space. Then he recalled:
" 'Shema Yisra'el, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Ehad!'
" 'That's our most important prayer, Captain.'
" 'And my secret prayer too, cher monsieur,' he replied, refilling our glasses."
Although Itamar Ben-Avi could not have known it, Ataturk no doubt meant "secret prayer" quite literally. Among the esoteric prayers of the Doenme, first made known to the scholarly world when a book of them reached the National Library in Jerusalem in 1935, is one containing the confession of faith:
"Sabbetai Zevi and none other is the true Messiah. Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."
It was undoubtedly from this credo, rather than from the Bible, that Ataturk remembered the words of the Shema, which to the best of my knowledge he confessed knowing but once in his adult life: to a young Hebrew journalist whom he engaged in two tipsily animated conversations in Jerusalem nearly a decade before he took control of the Turkish army after its disastrous defeat in World War I, beat back the invading Greeks and founded a secular Turkish republic in which Islam was banished - once and for all, so he thought - to the mosques.
Ataturk would have had good reasons for concealing his Doenme origins. Not only were the Doenmes (who married only among themselves and numbered close to 15,000, largely concentrated in Salonika, on the eve of World War I) looked down on as heretics by both Muslims and Jews, they had a reputation for sexual profligacy that could hardly have been flattering to their offspring. This license, which was theologically justified by the claim that it reflected the faithful's freedom from the biblical commandments under the new dispensation of Sabbetai Zevi, is described by Ezer Weizman's predecessor, Israel's second president, Yitzchak Ben-Zvi, in his book on lost Jewish communities, "The Exiled and the Redeemed":
'Saintly Offspring'
"Once a year [during the Doenmes' annual 'Sheep holiday'] the candles are put out in the course of a dinner which is attended by orgies and the ceremony of the exchange of wives. ... The rite is practiced on the night of Sabbetai Zevi's traditional bithday. ... It is believed that children born of such unions are regarded as saintly."
Although Ben-Zvi, writing in the 1950s, thought that "There is reason to believe that this ceremony has not been entirely abandoned and continues to this day," little is known about whether any of the Doenmes' traditional practices or social structures still survive in modern Turkey. The community abandoned Salonika along with the city's other Turkish residents during the Greco-Turkish war of 1920-21, and its descendants, many of whom are said to be wealthy businessmen and merchants in Istanbul, are generally thought to have assimilated totally into Turkish life.
After sending my fax to Batya Keinan, I phoned to check that she had received it. She had indeed, she said, and would see to it that the president was given it to read on his flight to Ankara. It is doubtful, however, whether Mr. Weizman will allude to it during his visit: The Turkish government, which for years has been fending off Muslim fundamentalist assaults on its legitimacy and on the secular reforms of Ataturk, has little reason to welcome the news that the father of the 'Father of the Turks' was a crypto-Jew who passed on his anti-Muslim sentiments to his son. Mustafa Kemal's secret is no doubt one that it would prefer to continue to be kept.

[Gedo_Boy]

[quote="Warsan_Star_Muslimah"]Asalamu alikum to all

I don't believe they hate Islam, however their not practising muslims (some, not all by all means) and do for the most part live a very secular lifestyle. I agree with Gedo boy on his most points, [u]but don't believe that Ataturk was a Jew[/u]. The country might be secretly run by them now, but all everything can't be blamed on them
[/quote]


Warsan,

this isn't a matter of iman, you can't just decide to believe or not believe based on faith. You have to go by available evidence out there, then decide.

[Gedo_Boy]

http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english ... kjew-1.htm


This is strongly debated until now, but several things are very suspect:

1. His affiliation w/ CUP 'Young Turks' and their cryptoJewish roots as Donme Jews.
2. His desire to abolish Caliphate, replace Arabic script with Latin, effectively rendering millions illiterate.
3. His desire to institute Western institutions.


And NoAngst's saying about the West calling Ottoman empire 'the sick man', that was only the tsar of Russia who coined that phrase and he was fighting the Ottomans. But, they were being subverted and imploded within just as America is being imploded today.

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Okay
So am I to believe he was not a Muslim based on the fact he was born in a majority non-muslim city?

One thing I took from the article you posted is this:-

" were denied by him and his family and never taken seriously by biographers."

If someone pronounces the Shahada and says I'm a Muslim, then their a muslim! The rest is between him and Allah (swt)

The man is dead; lets leave it alone.

Wasalam
Btw I don't agree with his secular ways, but I love the name Mustafa Kemal, it goes well together.

[Gedo_Boy]

As I said it's debated, but the little we can glean from the relevant evidence is he neither practiced nor identified with Islam.

[FAH1223]

Majority don't hate Islam but lets be honest we all know the difference between a moderate progressive nation like Malaysia and Turkey (+ their descendants in Albania, Kosovo) these muslims drink Vodka Call themselves Ahmedovich and Ismailovich and very hedonistic lifestyle.. they have a very liberal culture as opposed to the Pakistani very conservative culture. Islam can be mixed with cultural beliefs and local traditions. Even in Somalia FGM is a cultural practice that was seen as Islamic by the majority of the uneducated masses. I'm sure Turks and other muslims would be horrified to think other muslims do that!

FGM isn't Islamic, its ancient, theres a hadith about FGM but that isn't the sort thats practices in Somalia and East Africa

culture and islam cannot mix when the culture is either barbaric or if their culture promotes things that are already haram like these mofos drinking Raki and shid like its caadi

one dude told me he went to a Turk friend's house, the family is Muslim but the dad is drinking and shid wtf

I never thought Attaturk was Muslim, I always thought the focker was atheist or one of those things these Turks call "Muslim Atheist" wtf?

[FAH1223]

"I'm a descendant of Sabbetai Zevi - not indeed a Jew any more, but an ardent admirer of this prophet of yours. "