Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Murax »

Twisted_Logic wrote:Murax,

The Mogadishu, Kismayo and Barbera Port were build by the civilian government in the 1960s.

Effectiveness of Foreign Aid-The Case of Somalia
Author(s): Ozay Mehmet
Source: The Journal of Modern African Studies, Vol. 9, No. 1 (May, 1971), pp. 31-47
Published by: Cambridge University Press
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/159250
The Plan was to spend a total of 1,400 million Somali Shillings (So.Sh.).2 Its simple development strategy concentrated attention on a handful of projects: an increased output of sugar through expanding the productive capacity of the existing factory at Johar; the development of meat packing, fish processing, milk and dairy products, textiles, and a few other industries; the construction or improvement of a number of roads; building three seaports at Kisimayo, Berbera, and Mogadiscio; the expansion of irrigation for crops and fodder; the formation of a number of state farms; and certain improvements in social services, including education and health. Sectoral allocations of planned investment outlays reflected a greater priority for physical infrastructure than agricultural development or population settlement. Twenty-nine per cent of total development outlays were earmarked for transport development, with I7-8 per cent allocated to agricultural projects. Industrial development, with an allocation of I5'7 per cent of the total development budget, was assigned an almost equal priority with agriculture
.

With all due respect, MSB wasn't a typical ruler that would yield to internal pressure. His was one of the most ruthless regimes in Africa, forget about political opponents, even school teachers who were suspected of not being welcoming to his ideology were taken from their homes in the dark of the night, never to be seen again. Their bodies were frequently seen in the beaches of Mogadishu to serve as a lesson to those who would dare to challenge the despotic rule of Siyad Barre.

MSB came to power through the barrel of the gun, and the gun, in the end removed him from power.


Dictators as You say come and go all over the world. No matter How ruthless they were always removed by force and replaced. Sometimes by better administrations and sometimes with similar ones. However it is unprecedented that a President was overthrown by rebel movements headed by Men aspiring to be drug plantation overloards and human checkpoint kingpins posing as reformists. I'd be damned, I'd prefer to keep My mouth shut and sing ever Guulwade mealody in the world, than have My Sons pay their weight in isbaaro checkpoints and have Soomali Women have to strip naked and do niiko if they didn't have money to get past the isbaaro. I'd take a 'despot' over that any day of the week.
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Murax wrote:
Twisted_Logic wrote:Murax,

The Mogadishu, Kismayo and Barbera Port were build by the civilian government in the 1960s.

Effectiveness of Foreign Aid-The Case of Somalia
Author(s): Ozay Mehmet
Source: The Journal of Modern African Studies, Vol. 9, No. 1 (May, 1971), pp. 31-47
Published by: Cambridge University Press
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/159250
The Plan was to spend a total of 1,400 million Somali Shillings (So.Sh.).2 Its simple development strategy concentrated attention on a handful of projects: an increased output of sugar through expanding the productive capacity of the existing factory at Johar; the development of meat packing, fish processing, milk and dairy products, textiles, and a few other industries; the construction or improvement of a number of roads; building three seaports at Kisimayo, Berbera, and Mogadiscio; the expansion of irrigation for crops and fodder; the formation of a number of state farms; and certain improvements in social services, including education and health. Sectoral allocations of planned investment outlays reflected a greater priority for physical infrastructure than agricultural development or population settlement. Twenty-nine per cent of total development outlays were earmarked for transport development, with I7-8 per cent allocated to agricultural projects. Industrial development, with an allocation of I5'7 per cent of the total development budget, was assigned an almost equal priority with agriculture
.

With all due respect, MSB wasn't a typical ruler that would yield to internal pressure. His was one of the most ruthless regimes in Africa, forget about political opponents, even school teachers who were suspected of not being welcoming to his ideology were taken from their homes in the dark of the night, never to be seen again. Their bodies were frequently seen in the beaches of Mogadishu to serve as a lesson to those who would dare to challenge the despotic rule of Siyad Barre.

MSB came to power through the barrel of the gun, and the gun, in the end removed him from power.


Dictators as You say come and go all over the world. No matter How ruthless they were always removed by force and replaced. Sometimes by better administrations and sometimes with similar ones. However it is unprecedented that a President was overthrown by rebel movements headed by Men aspiring to be drug plantation overloards and human checkpoint kingpins posing as reformists. I'd be damned, I'd prefer to keep My mouth shut and sing ever Guulwade mealody in the world, than have My Sons pay their weight in isbaaro checkpoints and have Soomali Women have to strip naked and do niiko if they didn't have money to get past the isbaaro. I'd take a 'despot' over that any day of the week.
The extreme brutality that MSB invented in Somalia, in the end, worked against him. MSB developed a psychology rooted in perversion, nepotism, corruption, massacre, injustice and almost every other vile practice. The mad-men who succeed him were simply emulating him. There was nothing unique about their practices. In fact, for some, MSB defeat marked the beginning of justice, freedom and stability. Puntland and Somaliland are clear examples.

MSB wasn't just a despot...he was also a criminal.
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Murax »

^^

Truth be told, Soomaliland although I'm not a big fan of their seccessionist policy, endured the most abuse under the last regime yet they didn't use that as a excuse for caged animal primate behavior. Ditto for Puntland who also shunned making excuses and also did their best. However inparticular the events that happened in Mogadishu are something that is unprecedented in History and takes the cake. Women having to put on a strip show to pass a friggin street, or a Reer Xamari dude being taken from His House in Xamar and raped by mooryaan because He refused to pimp His Daughters to the local mooryaan franchise, or the total destruction of all natural assests and treasures, agreement of toxic waste being dumped off Xamar's coast for peanuts, those events perpetuated in Somalia's capitol are what destroyed the reputation of Somalia as a whole, and the return of the biggest despot known to Man who at least Had Government insitutions in place, would be a welcome cry as opposed to that hell on earth called Mogadishu and to a lesser extent the rest of Somalia.
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Murax wrote:^^

Truth be told, Soomaliland although I'm not a big fan of their seccessionist policy, endured the most abuse under the last regime yet they didn't use that as a excuse for caged animal primate behavior. Ditto for Puntland who also shunned making excuses and also did their best. However inparticular the events that happened in Mogadishu are something that is unprecedented in History and takes the cake. Women having to put on a strip show to pass a friggin street, or a Reer Xamari dude being taken from His House in Xamar and raped by mooryaan because He refused to pimp His Daughters to the local mooryaan franchise, or the total destruction of all natural assests and treasures, agreement of toxic waste being dumped off Xamar's coast for peanuts, those events perpetuated in Somalia's capitol are what destroyed the reputation of Somalia as a whole, and the return of the biggest despot known to Man who at least Had Government insitutions in place, would be a welcome cry as opposed to that hell on earth called Mogadishu and to a lesser extent the rest of Somalia.
Those horrific practices and misdeeds weren't limited to Mogadishu alone. Similar stories of injustice happened throughout Southern Somalia, in Bay and Bakool, Jubooyinka and other regions. It is utterly non-sense to use the events that followed MSB's fall from grace to justify the crimes and atrocities committed by his regime. One has to remember, there was 9 years of peace and justice Before MSB.

The psychology of extreme nepotism and despotism created by MSB was what propelled Aideed AUN to power, what indoctrinated AY and what is stuck in the minds of todays so-called leaders.

You have to go beyond the results and into the origins of the Somali problem to truly appreciate the destructive influences of the MSB regime.
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Murux,

To understand the psychology I am talking about, read this poem by Hadrawi:

Madaxweynahaan ahay
anigaa guddoonshe ah
indhihi dadkaan ahay
dhegihii dadkaan ahay
maskaxdii dadkaan ahay
barihii dadkaan ahay
aabihii dadkaan ahay
keligay dalkoo idil
anigaa ka kaabba ah
dhcimaayo weligey

I am the president
I am also the chairman
I am the peoples' eyes
their ears
their brain
their teacher
their father
I alone over this land
Am the Boss
Who will never be unseated
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Murax »

Twisted_Logic wrote:
Murax wrote:^^

Truth be told, Soomaliland although I'm not a big fan of their seccessionist policy, endured the most abuse under the last regime yet they didn't use that as a excuse for caged animal primate behavior. Ditto for Puntland who also shunned making excuses and also did their best. However inparticular the events that happened in Mogadishu are something that is unprecedented in History and takes the cake. Women having to put on a strip show to pass a friggin street, or a Reer Xamari dude being taken from His House in Xamar and raped by mooryaan because He refused to pimp His Daughters to the local mooryaan franchise, or the total destruction of all natural assests and treasures, agreement of toxic waste being dumped off Xamar's coast for peanuts, those events perpetuated in Somalia's capitol are what destroyed the reputation of Somalia as a whole, and the return of the biggest despot known to Man who at least Had Government insitutions in place, would be a welcome cry as opposed to that hell on earth called Mogadishu and to a lesser extent the rest of Somalia.
Those horrific practices and misdeeds weren't limited to Mogadishu alone. Similar stories of injustice happened throughout Southern Somalia, in Bay and Bakool, Jubooyinka and other regions. It is utterly non-sense to use the events that followed MSB's fall from grace to justify the crimes and atrocities committed by his regime. One has to remember, there was 9 years of peace and justice Before MSB.

The psychology of extreme nepotism and despotism created by MSB was what propelled Aideed AUN to power, what indoctrinated AY and what is stuck in the minds of todays so-called leaders.

You have to go beyond the results and into the origins of the Somali problem to truly appreciate the destructive influences of the MSB regime.


The origins of the Soomali problem were engrained in Soomalis way before MSB ever came on the scene. About neopitism and all that, hey there probably was but theres a Soomali saying 'cadaalad majirto laakin nadaam waa jira". Theres no such thing as justice but theres always law and order. MSB gave Soomalis what they know and respect for 21 years, and thats a good 'ol smacking in the rear from a people who have historically Had little regard for authority or Governance. Hey there maybe was never one day of cadaalad in His regime but there was always nadaam. Btw, those stories I mentioned were all documented by a Soomali aid worker who incidently travelled to Bay/Bakool extensively as well as Puntland. Those stories were exlusively in Xamar and the closest this Man Has seen to this is in Bay/Bakool Where there were isbaaro on the road coming in, but nothing comparable to those episodes. Btw You might get the impression that I'm defending the last regime because it was headed by a clansman of mine, but My distaste would be the same for any outfit even if it was My own family, who broke down and destroyed Governmental insititutions so they can turn what once was a Nation to a Gangster's paradise, and today a literal jungle between al qaeda wackos on one side and mooryaans on the other.
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Murux,

Once again you are ignoring the fact that there was 9 years of justice and democratic rule in Somali and you take MSB as the first leader of Somalia. This is patently false. The Somali people are absolutely capable of ruling themselves and NO they are not some zoo-animals as you make them to be. MSB created a psychology of nepotism, injustice, clan-manipulation and all sorts of filthy practices to stay in power. Tens of thousands of people died in his hands. He has sown the seeds of hate and injustice we are harvesting today. You deny this at your own peril.

If Al Shabab and the so-called mooriyaan culture are the sour soup were eating today, MSB was most certainly its chef.
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Murax »

Twisted_Logic wrote:Murux,

Once again you are ignoring the fact that there was 9 years of justice and democratic rule in Somali and you take MSB as the first leader of Somalia. This is patently false. The Somali people are absolutely capable of ruling themselves and NO they are not some zoo-animals as you make them to be. MSB created a psychology of nepotism, injustice, clan-manipulation and all sorts of filthy practices to stay in power. Tens of thousands of people died in his hands. He has sown the seeds of hate and injustice we are harvesting today. You deny this at your own peril.

If Al Shabab and the so-called mooriyaan culture are the sour soup were eating today, MSB was most certainly its chef.
You're right, I shouldn't lump all Soomalis together in one basket :idea:
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Murax wrote:
Twisted_Logic wrote:Murux,

Once again you are ignoring the fact that there was 9 years of justice and democratic rule in Somali and you take MSB as the first leader of Somalia. This is patently false. The Somali people are absolutely capable of ruling themselves and NO they are not some zoo-animals as you make them to be. MSB created a psychology of nepotism, injustice, clan-manipulation and all sorts of filthy practices to stay in power. Tens of thousands of people died in his hands. He has sown the seeds of hate and injustice we are harvesting today. You deny this at your own peril.

If Al Shabab and the so-called mooriyaan culture are the sour soup were eating today, MSB was most certainly its chef.
You're right, I shouldn't lump all Soomalis together in one basket :idea:
Bro, whatever your insinuations are, South Somalia from Galgacayo to the Kenyan borders is in the same boat and clear ideas and visions are needed to improve the situation of the regions. Lamenting about the collapse of the MSB regime is utterly futile.

We have inherited a messy situation post 91, and we should pull in our efforts to better our country.
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Voltage »

Murax, there is established history and their is mooryaanism revisionism. Some people will to thier bones deny the truth even when they know it is with respect to the old government because post-1991 action of theirs looks even more barbarian and primitive than it could possibly be. I would advise you not to waste your time.
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Voltage wrote:Murax, there is established history and their is mooryaanism revisionism. Some people will to thier bones deny the truth even when they know it is with respect to the old government because post-1991 action of theirs looks even more barbarian and primitive than it could possibly be. I would advise you not to waste your time.
I am guessing you ran out of your copy and paste documents :lol:
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Voltage »

I suppose you have a first-hand first-person record of the 60's, 70's, and 80's. The people you support are what they are and the whole world knows. Keep trying to dilute the magnitude of post-1991 one clan majority Mogadishu. :up:
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Voltage wrote:I suppose you have a first-hand first-person record of the 60's, 70's, and 80's. The people you support are what they are and the whole world knows. Keep trying to dilute the magnitude of post-1991 one clan majority Mogadishu. :up:
No-one supports anyone, least of all me. Me and Murux were discussing about historical events, before you came in with your " why is my Poppa MSB being criticized" non-sense.
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Voltage »

A leapord doesn't change his spots my friend. The only prism with which you view Somalia is through Darod/Hawiye.

This is Siad Mogadishu

Image


Maxamed Dheere/Muuse Suudi Mogadishu

Image
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Re: Al Shabab "we are goiong to invade Kenya/Ethiopia"

Post by Twisted_Logic »

Voltage,

MSB didn't build Xamar.

It would be helpful to post pictures of Gedo :up:
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