The Greatest General in the History of mankind.

[LobsterUnit]

Oromawi, don't forget Imam Ahmed Ibrahim Al Ghazzali aka Ahmed Gurey. His achievements on the battlefield and his march all the way to axum was an incredible achievement. He came this close to...........

[Aliyyi Oromada]

^ saxiix, but somebody already said him. That's ghazi btw

[LobsterUnit]

^^ thanks for the clarification.

I forgot Sheikh Atom, too.

[RuralMan08]

Prophet Dawud (as)
Conqueror of the Philistines, Amorites, Jebusites and many other enemies

ALSO

Prophet Suleiman (as) possesor of the the greatest army and Kingdom (Men, Jinn, Birds).

[bareento]

I think of the great Red Army Field Marshals and Generals during world war II.
Joukov on the Moscou Front in winter 1941-1942;
Tchouikov in the ruins of Stalingrad

Some one pointed out Imam Ahmed as a great general. I believe he was not a great general since he was defeated by 400 Portuguese and lost
all his conquest! All his successors lost ground on the highlands.
He was not able to achieve with all his modern weaponry and external support wat primitive oromo spearmen tribes , with no modern artillery achieved, (ie occupying the highlands on permanent base).
My NEWEST THEORY is, he precipated the fall of Muslim Sultanates of the area, in an unnecessary war of conquest !!!
I believe his early conquest was NOT due to his military genious, but rather due to the terror he inspired to the highlanders.

I am not far from believing that, had it not been for his destructive war the Muslim forces in the horn (specially in the highlands) would have slowly overwhelmed the christians and Ethiopia would have been an overwhelmingly muslim majority kingdom.

Ethiopian Muslims should reassess his contribution , and should not be afraid of criticizing him albeit having greatest respect to his deeds!

B.

[surrender]

Here's mine

Cumar ibn Al Khatab: Islamic Empire expanded most during his leadership

Khalid bin Walid: Never lost a battle, lead Muslim during time of rapid expansion. Defeated Byzantine and Persian Empires

Napoleon: Ended the French revolution, major military power in Europe for many years

Ghenghis Khan: Captured most of the known world in very little time

Alexander the Great: Captured much of the known world

Salahudin Ayubi:Defeated crusaders

the best list.

[udun]

I think of the great Red Army Field Marshals and Generals during world war II.
Joukov on the Moscou Front in winter 1941-1942;
Tchouikov in the ruins of Stalingrad

Some one pointed out Imam Ahmed as a great general. I believe he was not a great general since he was defeated by 400 Portuguese and lost
all his conquest! All his successors lost ground on the highlands.
He was not able to achieve with all his modern weaponry and external support wat primitive oromo spearmen tribes , with no modern artillery achieved, (ie occupying the highlands on permanent base).
My NEWEST THEORY is, he precipated the fall of Muslim Sultanates of the area, in an unnecessary war of conquest !!!
I believe his early conquest was NOT due to his military genious, but rather due to the terror he inspired to the highlanders.

I am not far from believing that, had it not been for his destructive war the Muslim forces in the horn (specially in the highlands) would have slowly overwhelmed the christians and Ethiopia would have been an overwhelmingly muslim majority kingdom.

Ethiopian Muslims should reassess his contribution , and should not be afraid of criticizing him albeit having greatest respect to his deeds!

B.

Bareento,

I rejected your assumption if Ahmed Ibrahim did not initiate his struggle, Ethiopia would have been Muslim majority kingdom. As a matter fact, Christian Abyssinians were advancing and were conquering more land at that point. All of the activities of Imam Ahmed Ibrahim were in response to their aggression.

You also claimed that he lost to 400 Portuguese and that is itself is bogus. The Portuguese troops were reinforcing the Christian Abyssinians and they also came with new weapons that Muslims did not have. So, it was not only 400 Portuguese but in addition to the Christian Abyssinians + the new weapons that the Portuguese came with.

You are also forgetting in those days, many Muslim dynasties felt and it was bad time for the Ummah. Imam Ahmed and his troops did not receive any reinforcement that could offset the Portuguese support to the Christian Abyssinians but if you look at the war that he waged against the Abyssinians, it was all obvious that he was genious. he unified the Somali clans and formed an strong military force that could push back the advancing Abbysinians. He also did not settle for less but kept them pushing back until he reached Kaffa. It was the support of the another power that stopped the Muslims' advance and due to the lack of outside support, the Muslims were pushed back.

[Gara Man]

kudos to the creator of the thread, this is a good topic. And i agree that Imam Ahmed was a great conqueror and general bareento but i think the invading bareentuma were a force to be reckoned with.Simply labeling oromo spear men primitive against him is a false statement. Oromos back in the day were excellent spear men but were better riders. Some foreign travelers have cited this and labeled them as masters of war. I agree though other aspects as of Oromo culture is primitive but one thing they knew how to do is go to war.

And for Imam Ahmed he brought almost all Abyssinia to his knees so that has to count for something.

My pick though for greatest general outside of the din is Genghis khan. You cant go wrong by him.

[bareento]

I think one should be biased to consider Imam Ahmed as conquerer, the guy conquered nothing.
At his death, all muslim Sultanates lost almost all wat they had, they were ruined.

He inspired terror to the Abyssinians and managed to chase the king from most Abyssinia.
He was offered a deal in which he was given two third of the christian kingdom, refused it and then lost everything.
That is wat makes me suspect he was most certainly of alien to the region and unaware of the power dynamic of that region.
He was most probably one of Somali-Bantu tribes in the present day Somali deep South, or Arab.

Gara Man, by pointing out how outdated Bareento (Bareeytumaa) oromo's weaponry compared to Imam Ahmed's, I was
emphasizing how much they achieved with far less.
Imagine, few years after the establishment of the Great Baantu Shrine of Odaa Bultum , the Humbanna branch
of Humbanna-Itu gadaa besieged Harer city,and the Itu branch besieged the Afar capital.

I think history of Imam Ahmed should be reconsidered, we must be able to discuss about the negative impacts he had on muslim population.
Had he not first allied himself with the Turks, Portugal would have never helped the abyssinians.
Thats the foundation of of abyssinan alliance with the wetsrn power!!!


B.

[Navy9]

Saif ud Din Qutuz (Only leader at the time who was able to defeat the Monguls, which ultimately led to their decline and fall).

Did you grew up in Middle East? Ein Galut 1260AD

[Simra]

After De Sahaba And All The Great Muslims, I Would Say Aidid For SoMALIA.

[marcassmith]

I think a man who would have made a great general, despite, only, raising to the rank of captain, before becoming president of Burkina Faso is Thomas Sankara. The man was instrumental in making great changes in the African country in a short period of time. He was assassinated at 37. So much potential! RIP

[Aliyyi Oromada]

@Navy9,

Nope. I just like history, man.

Had it not been for Imam Ahmed, the eastern highlands would probably be christian today, and I would probably have a cross on my chest right now. So the defensive aspect of his conquest was successful. The offensive portion did not have it's intended impact, from my observation because;

1. They did not take the time to consolidate their gains, and concentrate more on the people. They had a more risky plan.

2. There was no solid political structure among the Muslims. It was just a loose alliance of tribes and chiefs, led by a strong figure. Once that figure was gone, the structure would just collapse, because it was not built to last. This is a common scenario throughout history, and is quite recurrent for example in Muslim Oromo history.

3. When engaging in offensive campaigns, there is a limited amount of time a soldier should spend on the frontline before they can go back and spend time with their families. Otherwise there will be low morale, and deserters (which was a major problem in the army of Imam Ahmed. During the time of Umar ra the tour of duty was maximum four months I believe. Then the wife could divorce her husband and remarry, because the family also has rights on the soldier. This is for offensive campaigns, not when you are defending your land. There is no time limit to how long you defend your land.

Other than that, to say his campaign was a detriment to Muslims in Ethiopia is a joke.

Had he not first allied himself with the Turks, Portugal would have never helped the abyssinians.

Portugal had global ambitions spanning from America to Asia. Their involvement in this conflict was just part of their agenda to dominate the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden, and control the worlds trade routes and resources. They could careless what the Turks did. The Turks were too busy in the Balkans and eastern europe to concern themselves with what was going on in this area.

I remember Jaarraa talking about the Portugeuse military expeditions from Berbera into Hararge. He said their army was slaughtered at a place (I forget the original name), but the place their army was slaughtered was later renamed Bisiddiimo, because of the water which turned red with their blood. He narrated it from AQ elders.

[Navy9]

@Navy9,

Nope. I just like history, man.

I see, good for you, history is a great bedtime entertainment story! It's quite interesting how Sultana Shajar Al Dur married Qutuz's master and when he became a sultan and Shajar Al Dur didn't like his ways, poisoned him and when Ayyabak's (Qutuz's master) first wife knew what Shajar Al Dur did, paid the Sultana's servants and brought her gang and killed the sultana using wooden shoes. Shajar Al Dur brought down the Ayyubid dynasty establishing the Mumluk's rule. The Mumluk's came to power by killing each other and were wiped off the map of history by Mohammed Ali pasha, fatty Moe was brilliant, a murderer but brilliant.

[Aliyyi Oromada]

History is more than a bedtime entertainment story. It's a manual to learn from.

About the Sultana, I'm not into those kind of scandals. That's more the old version of celebrity gossip. But from what I read, her husband was marrying another wife, so when she asked him about it, he replied "she is young, and you are old." So she slit his throat. Then she smashed her head while running away from the gaurds. I think it was mentioned in the book "The Crusades through Arab Eyes" as the rumour in the streets of Cairo. But the Ayubi dynasty had been weak before her rule from my understanding. Salahudin's nephew literally gave away Jerusalem for personal favours. The only notable leaders from that family were Salahuddin and Shirkuh. Every dynasty or political establishment gets replaced when it gets old and it loses the qualities which established it in the first place.