Somalia should embrace communism

[gurey25]

The problem is that we are stuck with the idea that you need a legislature i.e a parliament that is elected and make laws..

but in our past we had amirs, sultans etc that ruled administered with the advise of the culema..

in the somali example we had our customary laws that included shareeca and they were maintained and "discovered" along the way by our elders.

[abdikarim86]

I hope some sort of solution is reached.

The idea of a sovereign parliament making laws scares me

As to to the previous discussion on the merits of fedralism/confedaralism vs a unitary government.
I prefer the former, if history is anything to go by Somalis are most suited for the most decentralised form
of governance possible.

I'd even go as far as to suggest even health and education along with most functionsshould be the domain of the region.
I'd also suggest things like refuse collection and local planning to be the domain of a local district.

Central Government should be kept as small as possible.

[FAH1223]

I hope some sort of solution is reached.

The idea of a sovereign parliament making laws scares me

As to to the previous discussion on the merits of fedralism/confedaralism vs a unitary government.
I prefer the former, if history is anything to go by Somalis are most suited for the most decentralised form
of governance possible.

I'd even go as far as to suggest even health and education along with most functionsshould be the domain of the region.
I'd also suggest things like refuse collection and local planning to be the domain of a local district.

Central Government should be kept as small as possible.

where is the money going to come from for the local level?

how is taxation supposed to work?

salah al adin has some valid concerns...

[abdikarim86]

I hope some sort of solution is reached.

The idea of a sovereign parliament making laws scares me

As to to the previous discussion on the merits of fedralism/confedaralism vs a unitary government.
I prefer the former, if history is anything to go by Somalis are most suited for the most decentralised form
of governance possible.

I'd even go as far as to suggest even health and education along with most functionsshould be the domain of the region.
I'd also suggest things like refuse collection and local planning to be the domain of a local district.

Central Government should be kept as small as possible.

where is the money going to come from for the local level?

how is taxation supposed to work?

salah al adin has some valid concerns...

I'm one of those who believe in a small government be it local or central.
If scarcity of taxation leads to government becoming smaller, it's an added bonus

As for the question, here in the UK local taxes pay for most local services and central government
also spends a large part of its budget on grants to local governmentsto pay for education and health.
Education and health is centralised but it's organised in structure to coincide with the local governments.
Could something like this not be suitable?

[gurey25]

Ok where is the money coming from to the central government?
Isnt it mostly foreign aid and taxing of ports inst it..

This can be handled by a formula to give the regions a share..

The bigger problem would be how to share natural resources.

what if there is some oil or minerals discovered in one of the smaller states?
Do they get to keep all the revenue or will thy have to share it with the rest?

Revenue will be comming from down and from up, the key here is to find a way to share this equitably.



My idea is to bring back the concept of the Waqf or Trust..
Everything that is naturally occuring should be given over to a trust and the sharing of this resources should be stipulated in the waqf.

The region where the resource is found should get a big cut like 25% for example and its natives should get priority in jobs in the area...

This way you can stop the funds going to a bloated central government where it will be wasted, misused or worse put in private siwww bank accounts..

[gurey25]

I know this sounds crazy but i am actually in favour of going a step further..
Why not a seperate currency for each state?

Why not 3 seperate layers of currency ?

Level one would be used only inside each state.

Level 2 would be used between somali states

level three would be the offical currency for international trade, tied to a basket currencies.



what are the advantages of this?

allot.. you get to boost the local economy , create jobs locally.

This is also part of the answer to your question FAH123

[Salah Al-Din]

Gurey,

I think we're on the same page. I'm just saying lets be pragmatic. We need baby steps. As Somaliland and Somalia develop and become prosperous they can go as far as having each neighbourhood be represented.

As for the Shariah, in my opinion it is not against the people electing their officials. It is not against if the ruler decides to appoint a successor. All it is interested in is that the Allah's laws are used to rule the people. In this respect, if the parliament does not make laws that are against the Shariah then we are ok. If we take Somaliland for example, the constitution state's that the religion of the country is Islam. The laws of the land should be based on Islam. No law shall be passed that is against the Shariah. What we are missing which is surprisingly in the constitution itself, is the council of Ulema that would be over seeing that indeed the laws do not go against the Shariah. This is the part Somaliland has come short and needs to address immediately as it is missing a key component of its own constitution as it stands right now.

[abdikarim86]

Gurey,

I think we're on the same page. I'm just saying lets be pragmatic. We need baby steps. As Somaliland and Somalia develop and become prosperous they can go as far as having each neighbourhood be represented.

As for the Shariah, in my opinion it is not against the people electing their officials. It is not against if the ruler decides to appoint a successor. All it is interested in is that the Allah's laws are used to rule the people. In this respect, if the parliament does not make laws that are against the Shariah then we are ok. If we take Somaliland for example, the constitution state's that the religion of the country is Islam. The laws of the land should be based on Islam. No law shall be passed that is against the Shariah. What we are missing which is surprisingly in the constitution itself, is the council of Ulema that would be over seeing that indeed the laws do not go against the Shariah. This is the part Somaliland has come short and needs to address immediately as it is missing a key component of its own constitution as it stands right now.

How about a legistlature only concerned with regulations, and therefore having nothing to do
with law/shareeca.

That way you avoid controversy and it's quite acceptable to the average muslim.

[gurey25]

Salah el din.. we have a council of elders, what position would the council of ulema be
and what madhabs will they be from?

will they be shaafici like most somalis have been, or will they claim to be without madhab and like some people that we know?
This is opening another can of worms.. but i agree we need to discuss this,

[Saraxnow]

MashAllah gurey, you really thought it out . Now how about we implement those ideas?


What I would like to see is a more deen and culture-oriented system whether in the local or central government. We should embrace what we already have from traditional Somali laws (xeer) that are parallel to shareeca and follow what suits us best as Somalis including taking in basic forms of Islamic Governance such as collecting Zakat tax money from the well-off and saving it in 'Bait-ul-Maal' for the poor,

avoid usury as not only is it haram but it increases the inequality gap between the poor and the rich and introduce Islamic banking (to avoid future bankruptcy as in the capitalist countries recently suffered) and many others.

If anything traditional and more Islamic roots is the way foward.

[gurey25]

Gurey,

I think we're on the same page. I'm just saying lets be pragmatic. We need baby steps. As Somaliland and Somalia develop and become prosperous they can go as far as having each neighbourhood be represented.

As for the Shariah, in my opinion it is not against the people electing their officials. It is not against if the ruler decides to appoint a successor. All it is interested in is that the Allah's laws are used to rule the people. In this respect, if the parliament does not make laws that are against the Shariah then we are ok. If we take Somaliland for example, the constitution state's that the religion of the country is Islam. The laws of the land should be based on Islam. No law shall be passed that is against the Shariah. What we are missing which is surprisingly in the constitution itself, is the council of Ulema that would be over seeing that indeed the laws do not go against the Shariah. This is the part Somaliland has come short and needs to address immediately as it is missing a key component of its own constitution as it stands right now.

How about a legistlature only concerned with regulations, and therefore having nothing to do
with law/shareeca.

That way you avoid controversy and it's quite acceptable to the average muslim.

The problem is that is not how it works, they will come across potential conflicts on a daily basis, because shareeca encompasses every part of life..

[FAH1223]

abdikarim, so you support a top down approach where the federal government has the role of alocating resources for the local states, districts?

gurey, 25%? what portion would go to the feds ideally? and the companies..

[abdikarim86]

Gurey,

I think we're on the same page. I'm just saying lets be pragmatic. We need baby steps. As Somaliland and Somalia develop and become prosperous they can go as far as having each neighbourhood be represented.

As for the Shariah, in my opinion it is not against the people electing their officials. It is not against if the ruler decides to appoint a successor. All it is interested in is that the Allah's laws are used to rule the people. In this respect, if the parliament does not make laws that are against the Shariah then we are ok. If we take Somaliland for example, the constitution state's that the religion of the country is Islam. The laws of the land should be based on Islam. No law shall be passed that is against the Shariah. What we are missing which is surprisingly in the constitution itself, is the council of Ulema that would be over seeing that indeed the laws do not go against the Shariah. This is the part Somaliland has come short and needs to address immediately as it is missing a key component of its own constitution as it stands right now.

How about a legistlature only concerned with regulations, and therefore having nothing to do
with law/shareeca.

That way you avoid controversy and it's quite acceptable to the average muslim.

The problem is that is not how it works, they will come across potential conflicts on a daily basis, because shareeca encompasses every part of life..

Then do we let legislature's interfere with law or do we do away with legislatures altogather.
I find the idea of a law making body of elected folks quite disturbing.

I have absolutely no problem with an elected government, it's just the idea of a law making legislature
I have trouble with.

What would be an equitable solution in your opinion?

[Saraxnow]

Salah el din.. we have a council of elders, what position would the council of ulema be
and what madhabs will they be from?

will they be shaafici like most somalis have been, or will they claim to be without madhab and like some people that we know?
This is opening another can of worms.. but i agree we need to discuss this,

Without madhabs? I think you mean the Salafis.. I do not think that they don't follow a madhab per se as one needs to when praying or doing wudhu etc. They just don't follow it ''blindly'' as in they take from each madhab.What is important I think is that the council ulema would mainly be concerned with the Fiqhi issues not .i.e jurisprudence example whether something is halaal or not.

I don't think it should be a problem if the prominent 'ulemas or most respected ones come together and appoint one from amongst themselves or take one from each main madhab in Somaliland (apart from shafici which else is followed?)... maybe add in a salafi in too!

[gurey25]

MashAllah gurey, you really thought it out . Now how about we implement those ideas?


What I would like to see is a more deen and culture-oriented system whether in the local or central government. We should embrace what we already have from traditional Somali laws (xeer) that are parallel to shareeca and follow what suits us best as Somalis including taking in basic forms of Islamic Governance such as collecting Zakat tax money from the well-off and saving it in 'Bait-ul-Maal' for the poor,

avoid usury as not only is it haram but it increases the inequality gap between the poor and the rich and introduce Islamic banking (to avoid future bankruptcy as in the capitalist countries recently suffered) and many others.

If anything traditional and more Islamic roots is the way foward.

Yes tradition really works, its when we get confused and accept customs and laws that contradict islam that we have a problem.
Riba is our biggest challenge.
We already have a strong foundation in our strong family links and clans..
Why dont we use it..

We should have credit unions that provide credit to small businesses using islamic banking methods like musharaka and mudaraba. This could start a a super hagbad on a clan level but then develop into big financial enterprises that fill the role of banks..
This should be used in conjunction with complimentary community currencies to build the local economy.

These could be linked to form a strong base for the larger economy..

The central government will be forced to have interest loans from the IMF and World Bank , this way you can build an alternative
muslim economy independant from the central government, and this will later on save us from the effects of the excesses of modern kaafir capitalism.

just an idea.




by the way you will notice that i am an advocate for intrest free banking and financial systems, this and agriculture are my new pet interests these days..
I think i am a good judge because i used to trade in the stock market and currency market and made allot of money,
I also lost allot of money and was $300,000 in debt.
I have made that back and i am now broke , but owe nothing to no one and it is a blessing from allah.
This is why its my mission to campaign against riba.