Ethiopia's Foriegn Policy towards Somalia

[IRONm@N]

Yungfresh are you playing the devil's advocate here or you are a closet pro-ethiopian?

also I can see you matured, gone are the days of two liners, you holding great discussion here.

[Based]

Both are forms of oppression, albeit on differing scales of severity. The lesser form is denying them their right to self-determination...right now, they're subjected to that AND they're also the victims of carpet-bombing by the military in their offensive against the rebels. What I said was there's no incentive for them to use brutal force in the Somali regions in the absence of an armed rebellion...oppression through denial of sovereignty would still exist, but it's still the lesser of two evils.

You can say that development is disproportionate but you can't say it's exclusive to Adis and Tigray regions. Just look at Dire Dawa's, the Oromo capital, infrastructure and it's not much worse off than Adis. Ethiopia in general is a poor nation and the entire nation is underdeveloped. I'm not denying that Zenawi is corrupt...few African heads of state aren't. But what do you think serves the interest of the Somali people more...shiny buildings in a region where they have property rights and live under the rule of law, or continuing to become casualties caught in the crossfire in a low-intensity war between the military and rebels? By no means am I arguing it's the ideal resolution, but you gotta play the cards you're dealt and there comes a point where you have to realize you're outgunned and go back to the drawing board. What I'm advocating for is not having foolish pride and continuing to fight a war you can't win at the moment...Somalis in Kilinka 5aad would do well to instead explore other possible avenues to gaining sovereignty cuz the armed struggle is not and has not been working, so for the interim, they should value their livelihood and stop fighting a losing war where they have little more than a puncher's chance.

I think it's important to remember than any counter-insurgency that engages in collective punishment only strengthens the resolve of the people and forces what would otherwise be apathetic citizens into the liberation struggle. If collective punishment was not applied and the average citizen was not overly oppressed, the rebellion would not be as powerful and many would not view themselves as foreigners in what is ostensibly their own country. By the Ethiopian regimes actions in the Ogaden and in other regions, they have only fueled the fires of separatism by reinforcing the idea that all non-Xabash are colonial subjects that must be controlled by force. I suppose you could argue that the harsh military reprisals are a result of their insurgency, but I think it is better for the people to be conscious of their status as oppressed subjects whilst struggling against this oppression, rather than being apathetic subjects who have accepted their lot like many accuse the Oromo of being.

I do not think it's in the best interests of the Somali people in the long run to allow the exploitation of their land and resources whilst under occupation. Once the regime gets a taste of the riches the Ogaden has to offer, it will only be another incentive in a long list of reasons as to why they must control the region. At the present moment, despite Ethiopia only importing dead soldiers and bad PR from the Ogaden, they've done everything in their power to pacify the region bar outright ethnic cleansing. What do you think they would do if the Ogaden becomes their major cash cow, grant the region sovereignty under their bullshit secession clause? I don't agree with your assertion that Ethiopia is a country built on the rule of law. It is, at its core, a continuation of centuries of colonialism today wrapped up in the parlance of an illiberal "democracy". Ethiopia has always been at best a ticking timebomb, with dozens of rebel groups and separatist movements. There's no reason to give them a chance to further consolidate their power.

[yungnfresh]

Kramer, who u calling pro-Ethio waraa? J/K

For real though, I'm actually 100% genuine in my position...my philosophy is it's better to live to fight another day. Zenawi is not a friend of Somalia cuz necessity dictates that since our interests there are at odds with his interests in his country, and each will do what's best for itself. That doesn't translate into him being anti-Somali, just pro-Ethiopia. Which is why he's doing everything in his power to maintain a vise grip on control over the Ogaden region, much to the chagrin of the ONLF. The problem is, the ONLF has been bogged down in a quagmire where they can't defeat the Ethio army and are only causing the locals to suffer even more (this is just the indirect result of their actions, never mind the fact that they also do their fair share of terrorizing the Somalis there themselves). In the face of that reality, maybe it's a better idea to look at non combative means to achieving their political goal, and taking steps to gain independence through a referendum like Eritrea.

Based, I 100% agree that collective punishment only strengthens the rebellion, but it's a reverse symbiotic relationship. The strengthening of the rebellion only serves to strengthen the resolve and means to crush it. Nobody can accuse the Ethiopian government of having measured responses in their response to attacks by the ONLF, but that's just the nature of the beast we're dealing with. Let me ask you this, at what point do we cut our losses and realize we're dying in droves under the current militant strategy? We don't had access to the same funding, the same weaponry, the artillery, etc...we're effectively bringing a knife to a gunfight and getting massacred accordingly. It's clear the armed resistance is not beneficial to us, so wouldn't it be prudent to exhaust other means before becoming resigned to the fact that we have to fight a losing war?

I don't think the goal should change, just the means to achieving it.

[Based]

Like I said, it is better for the locals to be conscious of their oppression and struggle against it rather than being apathetic.I'm not advocating for total war, but the mere fact that an organization such as the ONLF exists and struggles against tyranny helps create a sort of comradery and raises the esprit de corps amongst the oppressed, in addition to inspiring similar movements throughout Ethiopia and the increasingly bad PR the regime gets. It has been a long war that has had a high cost in terms of both causalities and in lack of any real development, but it's important to remember that with every death, the resolve of the people only grows. The TPLF was formed in 1974, and only achieved their goal in 1991 after drastic political shifts amid the end of an era. The ONLF's problem is the lack of support it receives (excluding Eritrea) and the static political climate in Ethiopia, with the entrenched Meles regime apparently being the darling of the West.

It's true that they're hopelessly outgunned and outfunded, but history has shown time and time again that liberation movements can exhaust and eventually oust occupiers from their land. Without a change in the political climate and/or the rise of other powerful separatist groups, the best the ONLF can hope for imo is to stall the Ethiopian regime's ambitions in the Ogaden until the conditions for their ouster are right or until they overextend and exhaust themselves in the Ogaden. The Eritrean referendum is in no way comparable to the ONLF's situation today. The EPLF and TPLF literally marched into Addis Ababa together, and the US and UN played a massive role in putting the TPLF in power and granting the EPLF the right to secede, while the ONLF was denied that right despite being allied to the TPLF, which later branded them a terrorist organization. It's pretty delusional to think that anything other than armed struggle will free the Ogaden.

[OAF]

This won't last for long, brothers and sisters. you probably noticed that Meles and David in the Somali conference in London was abit harsh to each other.
You guys realize that UK have interest in Somalia now? because of all the resurces they found in Somalia they want to get it, and they won't get it untill Somalia is a peacefull place, and that is one of the reasons Kenya invaded Somalia, to establish an buffer zone that will actually make Somalia peacefull in the future.

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

Why is this shocking?
Ethiopia were never our friend even before converting to islam.

[Khalid Ali]

Was this a secret Ethiopia never wants Somaliweyn they are deeply involved in Somali domestic affairs they arm one warlord against the other they even armed kooxda la dagalaanta ICU before they entered prior to 2006. But Somalis are shortsighted they only care about their current Clan objectives ha dhakheleyso Somalis love clan objectives and Ethiopia gets what they want a weak Somalia its a win win situation for both

[OAF]

they're at war with the ONLF, not Somalis. If the ONLF left tomorrow, Somalida nabad bay heli lahaayeen (Meles Zenawi himself said "the rebels in the Ogaden are preventing the Somali citizens from achieving peace and development...if it weren't for them, you guys would be making use of your abundance of natural resources and your cities would be some of the most developed in Africa").

They in war with ONLF not Somalis? what are you talking about faggot? You surely don't know shit about Somali and you probably aint one.

[mody21]

those who plant cacti are the first to feel their sting, the ethios might think they are ahead of the game , but somali are manipulative bastard , the youth are more aware and are starting to master the divide and conquer strategy it wont be long , until the ethios get a dose of their own medicine. Time decides the victors.

[Murax]

What did yall expect them to say

[gobdoon]

Taking the war to Somalia and aggravating the contradiction between the clans DIVIDE AND RULE.