Al-Shabaab is drawing its last breath

[daiman]

wolverone,

our of curiosity, do you have a religion? if yes, which one?

Hi daiman...I dont have a religion. But I'm not an atheist..much closer to what is called deism...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
http://www.deism.com

Cool. You are not a Muslim. That is cool too. But should not you keep that to yourself since you are on Somalinet. You are very well-aware of our religion is Islam and cutting off hands and what you might call barabrism is part of our system

We are not out there to change your belief.

I have also seen some of your posts in which you talked about 56 marrying 6 yr old gilr? I have not come across anything like that anywhere in the World, but what I am aware of very much is that 50 old Western sex tourism looking for young children across the world. It is an attarction to having to sex with children that is sickenning.....and it is a desease...

[daiman]

I am logging out now. Be back later today, insha allah.

[wolverine]

wolverone,

our of curiosity, do you have a religion? if yes, which one?

Hi daiman...I dont have a religion. But I'm not an atheist..much closer to what is called deism...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
http://www.deism.com

Cool. You are not a Muslim. That is cool too. But should not you keep that to yourself since you are on Somalinet. You are very well-aware of our religion is Islam and cutting off hands and what you might call barabrism is part of our system

We are not out there to change your belief.

I have also seen some of your posts in which you talked about 56 marrying 6 yr old gilr? I have not come across anything like that anywhere in the World, but what I am aware of very much is that 50 old Western sex tourism looking for young children across the world. It is an attarction to having to sex with children that is sickenning.....and it is a desease...

I was arguing against people who issue death sentences left and right for gays...I questioned the source of their morality which is the Islamic scriptures which say that a 6 year old can marry a 50+ year old....that is what I consider deeply disturbing. The prophet who's actions and sayings represent Islamic law, married a 6 year old.

[daiman]

Nowhere in the islamic scripture it stated a 50 yr old man can marry a 6 yr old man.
The prophet (pbuh) did not marry a 6 year old.

That is all you need to know for the time being.

[Rightwing]

why do you want amputations and stoning to be history? do you not know that these are islamic rulings and must be applied?

First learn the difference between hudud punishments unders tazir system and the fundamentalists who want impose harsh sharia punishments for crimes.


Arabman,

c'mon nagadaa is yeelyeelka dee¬

[wolverine]

Mondey
When was the last time a country/civilization that had laws such as cutting of hand of the thief or stoning, was at the top. Not for around 400-500 years? And how long was that civilization at the the top, 400-600..years? Less than pagan civilizations?....

closer to 1100 years
Europe only overtook the muslim world economically and technologically after the 1700's.

in some areas like public and private hygiene it took till the early 1900's for Europeans to catch up to the muslim world.

there is nothing wrong with hadd laws as long as you have competent judges.

1100 would mean conquest, which is not the same thing as civilizational overtake when it comes science,culture and economy. Otherwise you'd count the mongols as overtaking the islamic world, which at that time was going down...and the mongols didn't produce much...at the time of conquest.
I'd count the Rennessaince(around 15th century) as time when the Europe surpassed the Islamic world, which was going into dark ages of its own. Either way hundreds of years of being non-competative...says alot

[wolverine]

Nowhere in the islamic scripture it stated a 50 yr old man can marry a 6 yr old man.
The prophet (pbuh) did not marry a 6 year old.

That is all you need to know for the time being.

[gurey25]

1100 would mean conquest, which is not the same thing as civilizational overtake when it comes science,culture and economy. Otherwise you'd count the mongols as overtaking the islamic world, which at that time was going down...and the mongols didn't produce much...at the time of conquest.
I'd count the Rennessaince(around 15th century) as time when the Europe surpassed the Islamic world, which was going into dark ages of its own. Either way hundreds of years of being non-competative...says alot

what do you mean by conquest is not the same as civilization.
so the roman empire was not a civilization but conquest ? becuase till very late no more than 20% of the population had citizenship.

The rennaisaince is when europe stepped up and joined the rest of the world , they were neck and neck with the rest of the world in technology since the early 1500
and in many areas like medicine europe only started leading after the 1800's.

All of europes scientific "discoveries " were rediscoveries already made mostly by muslim civilization as well as the Indians and chinese.

I use the mid 1700's as a starting point , because it is the only time a real advance in science was made, particularly lavousoir and discovery of oxygen
followed by liebnitz/newton with their discovery of calculus.

[gurey25]

the 1700's is also the peak of the Ottomans, the Qing , Koreans, and Japanese
till the 1750's all 4 of them had better cannons, muskets and in the case of the koreans (turtleships till the 1600's)

Europe surpased them all even with inferior qaulity weapons becuase of their expertise in the art of war.
300 years of non stop war ensured that the most efficient use of weapons and tactics filtered to all of europe,
while all the other 4 had decades of relative peace and prosperity.

[wolverine]

what do you mean by conquest is not the same as civilization.

I'm not reffering to conquest, otherwise, you'd have to count the Mongol empire, whose expansion is similar to the islamic expansion. I'm talking about when science and culture that belonged to the islamic civilization arose and fell in comparison to Europe.

All of europes scientific "discoveries " were rediscoveries already made mostly by muslim civilization as well as the Indians and chinese.

If you go down that road, you'll end up saying that the scientific discoveries in the islamic civilization was really greek/roman/persion/indian.


Let me be generous and say that merely 300 years of Sharia hasn't worked. What are the reasons for failure? 300 years of failure and all those years blaming on other things other than the Sharia...

[gurey25]

All of europes scientific "discoveries " were rediscoveries already made mostly by muslim civilization as well as the Indians and chinese.


If you go down that road, you'll end up saying that the scientific discoveries in the islamic civilization was really greek/roman/persion/indian.

We can go that way if you want, but you may be ignorant of history of science,
the muslims acknowledge the contribution of the greeks and indians, but the west has not shown the same courtesy.
and the muslims built on and expanded on the previous cultures and made new discoveries.
even as late as newtons time, his education consisted on textbooks copied verbatim from muslim sources as early as the 10th century.

and you show a glaring ignorance of the mongol conquest to suggest any comparison.
Where the mongols went destruction followed, were the muslims went growth followed.


but i concede we are talking about different creatures, the muslims of yesterday and those of today.
we are still suffering from the trauma of colonialism, we are not really fit to compete in the world we need time to recover.

Let me be generous and say that merely 300 years of Sharia hasn't worked. What are the reasons for failure? 300 years of failure and all those years blaming on other things other than the Sharia...

plain simple its economics and the after effects of colonialism.
you cannot think freely , develop art and science if you are dirt poor an under the boot.

[Mondey]

why do you want amputations and stoning to be history? do you not know that these are islamic rulings and must be applied?

First learn the difference between hudud punishments unders tazir system and the fundamentalists who want impose harsh sharia punishments for crimes.


Arabman,

c'mon nagadaa is yeelyeelka dee¬

clearly you have no idea of what your speaking about ! i'll leave it there.

[wolverine]

We can go that way if you want, but you may be ignorant of history of science,

Algebra
Zero
Islamic Philosophy

Just to name three things.

the muslims acknowledge the contribution of the greeks and indians, but the west has not shown the same courtesy.

Strange, that my books in math(primary/secondary school and university) credits muslim mathematicians.

even as late as newtons time, his education consisted on textbooks copied verbatim from muslim sources as early as the 10th century.

That doesn't matter, we still use math and science developed by ancient Greeks. Science doesn't always get updated if it stands rigour of time, and sometimes it takes time.

and you show a glaring ignorance of the mongol conquest to suggest any comparison.
Where the mongols went destruction followed, were the muslims went growth followed.

My point was that you cannot say that conquest only starts the point in which you have you're own civilization. There must be a science and culture based on its own merits. So if the arabs conquered lands in 100-200 years, that doesn't mean the kind of civilizational overtake I was reffering to, unless the overtaking itself is based on technological superiority. Otherwise, you'd count mongolians since they conquered, but never really creating the kind of science and culture I refer to as its own civilization. Yes I know that the mongolians didn't create much new.

but i concede we are talking about different creatures, the muslims of yesterday and those of today.
we are still suffering from the trauma of colonialism, we are not really fit to compete in the world we need time to recover.

300-400 years , and being conquered because of lagging behind and half a century after the Europeans left still suffering from trauma, shows you how far ahead the West is and was.

plain simple its economics and the after effects of colonialism.
you cannot think freely , develop art and science if you are dirt poor an under the boot.

Being conquered because of technological superiority, is proof that theocracy compared to laws based more on reason doesn't work that well. The last caliphate recognized this and started reforming, but it was too late.