Somalia/Somaliland talks

[X.Playa]

no they are not adeer, indhaa faraa hanaga galin. once these 8 points are agreed on meaning :

1- no territorial border between somaliland and somalia ( agreeing on free movement of people and goods meaning no passport even)

2- no sea border between somaliland and somalia ( sharing the sea under fishing cooperations)

3- sharing international assisatnce ( like 1 country does).


now emproper once you sign all these you are agreeing that you are 1 nation lool so you are way behind the game sxb ilaahay haku sahlo.

TR,

In case you were away from planet earth somaliland was always there and Mahiga was sheteling back and forth from south to north, what iam saying simply was somaliland should have told IC and UN to fakk off period, or made sure of their share since they are already included by the UN and IC , why sit down with them , copperate with them and have them include you in the constitution, mps, goverment and sit there and smile and take PR pictures with Mahiga and the IC and then claim you are a nation called somaliland???? my logic is straightforward.

Since the IC believes there is no somaliland nation and insist we are the same country why not take adavantage of that and have your share of the somali goverment till in the future the status is clear , why cooperate with the IC for free?? against your interest and thats what somaliland oligrach and siilaanyo have done just so they can look "sexy" for the IC and UN .

[The`Republic]

Xplaya-

The reason why I said your position leaves me confused is 4.5 was formed during Carta in 2000. Siilaanyo was not in power. Cigaal was in power in Hargeisa. Afterwards 4.5 existed and the power-sharing formula in Somalia during Cigaal, Riyaale, and Siilaanyo. Also the Isaaq who took 4.5 positions allocated to Isaaq never considered themselves "reps" of Somaliland but of the "Isaaq clan".

I don't understand at all the foundations of your criticism.

If however I am right in my view you in fact are at once lamenting Somalilanders should have had an outsized size in Somalia affairs (thereby negating the principle of independence from Somalia?) and as a result would have materialized a 4.5 in favor of Isaaq taas waa mid.

If you are, however, saying Somaliland should have nothing to do with Somalia...then this is actually the history and yet 4.5 and Isaaq participation still existed and was considered legitimate.

In fact the only thing that really changed was Somaliland stopped campaigning for recognition outside and was forced to accept talks with Somalia as a final decision.

You argued from way to many places but ultimately I think you are motivated most strongly by this aversion of "Dir Waqooyi" in 4.5 and how you believe the Isaaq has been impacted nationally among the Somalis.

Knowing old school "libin" tribalists like you, you would prefer Isaaq stayed a part of Somalia and fight for what you believe is the Isaaq position in the conscience of the Somalis rather than went on this half-way limbo that has not brought recognition and left Isaaq known as "Dir Waqooyi".

[X.Playa]

I don't understand this 4.5 that gave the Daarood , a prime minister and 2 ministers and the Hawiye the same and olny gave so called Dir 2 ministers looool , dude wether you call it 4.5 oor dacawo division the number of all mps are the same for all 4 clans. and yet some clans have got more by far then the others.?? so wether it was Carte or siilaanyo was there or not is irrelevant.

[The`Republic]

Xplaya-

Sxb I understand you well and wallahi if I were Isaaq I would have your reservations as well but ultimately an Isaaq like you should blame Isaaq self-isolation for the current position the clan finds itself in limbo; neither separate and independent and nor inclusive and equal.

The top 3 positions are handled one way and the council of ministers is handled separately. I am a little encouraged that for the first time the council of minsiters was not made using 4.5 but 5 wholes so that is a step in the right direction.

[X.Playa]

Make no mistake am an ardent somaliland and but unlike emperor my somaliland-sim has to be sit within reality not just jump around and click heels and say yuppiee the NGO built this and that or this or that rich man built a hotel. But on has to be logical and since the IC and UN contrinue treat somaliland as part of the somali republic then somaliland has to take its share of the somali power sharing and in the future talks go their sepreate ways.

This Somalinimo fantasy is over its obvious the entiere Hawiye , raxanwey, daarood, and .5 beleive that the entire Isaaq's share in power is as the size of Mareexaan/Ogaadeen and 1 minister looi an insult from a people that cry and whine about somalinimo.

[SultanOrder]

Xplaya you are talking about fair representation, Somaliland could of been the biggest stake holder in the government, with president or pm every government. Hargeisa could of been the seat of government atleast temporarily, and Isaaq would of been top in the national politics. Before 2000, somaliland was the best organized resemblance of statehood within Somalia, and with that a monoply on governance of all of Somalia. Which could of influenced your eventual goal. It's too bad, somaliland missed a great opportunity.

[skywalker25]

X.Playa your over looking something. Silanyo or no Somaliland government can in this day and age tell the UN or its representative to fock off for the simple fact, Money. Sxb, if the two options on the table are one of either play lip service or lose alot of money then its fair to say Silanyo took the right option. These guys the UN and so forth hold alot of cards.

Where I do agree with you on is your point on the timidness of the Isaaq leaders both past and current. They are not aggressive enough in pursuit of their goals. I mean even Puntland is better in this field.We should have a more ropust dealings aggressive posture instead of trying to create a scandanavia in the horn..

-You should encourage turn a blind eye to piracy on our coast.
-Push for a more aggressive solution to the issue of our eastern neigbours. Included and not ending with displacement of the locals.
-Turn a blind eye to the ONLF as long as they agree to cease any activities gainst Isaaq's.
- Al-shabab should be encouraged and controlled to help us gain leverage.

Instead Somaliland is travelling around the world begging. Nobody gives you sh!t, youtake whats yours..

[X.Playa]

Cigaal did it when somaliland was much more poorer , much more divided , the UN hasn't changed since 1996, but Cigaal had guts unlike siilaanyo, riyaale and these goats who shake and trimple when they say a white dude. Cigaal deported Stevenson from somaliland and told him if you come back i will have you imprisoned not in a jail because we have non but in my dungeon.

Because why??? 3 worsd , setvenson called somaliland " a tribal fox hole" now you have Mahiga completly faking somaliland up the azz and siilaanyo is trying to be "sexy" less his welfare cheque is be cut from the UN.

[KingBlack]

wat happens if Silaanyo dies in the coming 6 months who will replace him the VP has no experience and Muse Bixi vowed to kill anybody who tries to be president after silaanyo dies he wanna take over but constitution says after 2 years there must be elections if president dies on the job since 1993-2013 never has there been Garhajis president and the current govt wants it to keep it that way the next president is Habar Awal till 2016 then Ciidagalles from 2016-2021 so 30 years never HY president in Somaliland

[SultanOrder]

X.Playa your over looking something. Silanyo or no Somaliland government can in this day and age tell the UN or its representative to fock off for the simple fact, Money. Sxb, if the two options on the table are one of either play lip service or lose alot of money then its fair to say Silanyo took the right option. These guys the UN and so forth hold alot of cards.

Where I do agree with you on is your point on the timidness of the Isaaq leaders both past and current. They are not aggressive enough in pursuit of their goals. I mean even Puntland is better in this field.We should have a more ropust dealings aggressive posture instead of trying to create a scandanavia in the horn..

-You should encourage turn a blind eye to piracy on our coast.
-Push for a more aggressive solution to the issue of our eastern neigbours. Included and not ending with displacement of the locals.
-Turn a blind eye to the ONLF as long as they agree to cease any activities gainst Isaaq's.
- Al-shabab should be encouraged and controlled to help us gain leverage.

Instead Somaliland is travelling around the world begging. Nobody gives you sh!t, youtake whats yours..

Do you really agree with those kind of policies, and would approve of them?

[skywalker25]

Cigaal aun was more confrontational then Silanyo. You only have to look at the length Cigaal would go to take power in comparison to Silanyo. He went to war with Tuur aun a very very big gamble and Silanyo backed out of Riyaale a sure bet. Plus deep down I think Silanyo and is inner circles, backers are a unionist working to foster the right conditions. They have found the right people in xamer to work with them. Its no surprise all the troublesome northern tribes who have axes to grind against Somaliland have been overlooked.


PO

Its a high stakes game, I agree. But this is the horn and in the horn might is right. No country was ever born without a bit of blood. I love my Somali brothers but if they have chosen to be my enemy then I will treat them as such.

[SultanOrder]

Cigaal aun was more confrontational then Silanyo. You only have to look at the length Cigaal would go to take power in comparison to Silanyo. He went to war with Tuur aun a very very big gamble and Silanyo backed out of Riyaale a sure bet. Plus deep down I think Silanyo and is inner circles, backers are a unionist working to foster the right conditions. They have found the right people in xamer to work with them. Its no surprise all the troublesome northern tribes who have axes to grind against Somaliland have been overlooked.


PO

Its a high stakes game, I agree. But this is the horn and in the horn might is right. No country was ever born without a bit of blood. I love my Somali brothers but if they have chosen to be my enemy then I will treat them as such.

SMH, adigoo ka cabanayaa dagaalihii 88-up between dawlad iyo snm yaanu ka maqlin.

[skywalker25]

PO

88 is history. You been in a state of war for the last 20 years. I think you lost more in that time than I ever did sxb. Dont worry we moved on....

[gurey25]

I think this is all positive, things are heading in the right direction.
Xplaya why do you care about the positions in the south.
All we need to do is to build on the current situation we have today.
We are already independent, we already have different political systems.
They cannot take this away from us, we already share international aid, and the proportions are satisfactory.
We just need to insure that we keep our separate military and insure we get our share of military aid and we have an asymmetrical confederacy .
Federal somalia can keep its own structures, we keep ours, we share one voice internationally, somaliland gets to have its liason offices upgraded to consulates, the capital will be xamar.
Natural resource share and laws will have to be worked out.
but its no big obstacle..
This can be presented to the somaliland public as a temporary transition 5 years or something,
but this satisfies my concerns and i think it is enough.
We dont need a share of the southern government or MPs and ministers, we have our own government.
They just need to phase out 4.5 and dir woqoyi.

[X.Playa]

Gurey,

I failed to understand your wants? you don't mind sharing aid, you don't mind having a consulate at Hargaysa and play second fidle to Xamar, you don't mind been in the southern parliament where the Daarood have 64 and Hawiye 64 and you Isaaq just half, you don't mind having 1 minister in the entire goverment, while the Daarood and Hawiye have 2 each pluse prime minister and president. What you mind is having your full right ???? but you don't mind having the shares of a overpowered minority. Its a bizzare logic.

What you just described is another Puntland with no power in Xamar. My point is since the so called IC regards somaliland and somalia as one , and somaliland don't mind ( since they cooperated fully with the process along Mahiga) why can't we get our full share? whats the point of cooperating with the IC and UN and get kicked in the face.

The UN and IC can't have it both way, they can't at one hand insist we are one nation and at the same time allot us the share of some minority clan , in fact the point 5 have more MPS then the Isaaq (36/28). We should take advantage of our share and tell the IC and UN if they regard us as one and demand of us to settle our future status through these talks then at the meantime we should have our share of the ministerial/goverment positions.

We can't contniue like this our people are suffering under the Dahabashiil & co, every year the diaspora sends almost a billion into somaliland giving that country a per/capita income richer then Kuwaite and Israel and yet all that money is channled outside of the nations through the oligrachs who control the market in every sense from exchange , food,, Few pretty houses and some NGO sadaqo isn't enough we are morally deying and decying as a nation, never pay attention to these Isaaq who worship the pretty houses and motels of the upper class, fact is 99% of the people are suffering and are in a limbo, if nothing is done sooner or later somaliland will collapse ( the rich class is already going to Xamar) and no way you will stop the poor who seek passport and way out.

This lets live like anarchiest is not practical, maybe its good for the rich , but for the poor its hell.