Shia V Sunni (who are the ahlu nabii)?

[Wadhafiyoshimbiro]

Salaam to you all, a new gang member joined here.
If I try to take part in this interesting debate, I would suggest there is nothing big difference between Sunni Shia and they are all muslims. Islam propagate for five basic pillars of Islam and six obligatory ones, in which every Muslim must be abided by to become Muslim, and they are as follows:
1. Believing Allah but no other deity
2. Mohamed is his messenger
3. Doing the five prayers
4. Fasting in Ramadan month
5. Going to hajj if one affords.

The other six are:
. Believing in Allah
2. Believing in the existce of angels
3. Believing in all Allah's books including the old ones
4. Believing in all prophets and messengers
5. Believing in thereafter or day of judgement
6. Believing in events and incidents that they happen with power of Allah wether good or bad and every one must acknowledge then.
6.

Shia shahada and pillars are different to those above.

So what are the Pillars of Shia then?

[DR-YALAXOOW]

midgreezz firs he was claiming that Shia has different Quran than THE quran we know and after i showed thats not true, and Sunnis is one tho trying to corrupt the quran and i showed evidance of Bukhari hadiith and MUSLIM hadiith, mr midgreez started to deny and claime Bukhaari and muslim hadiith are not sahiih hadiiths.. and mr midgrees thats not true Sunnis consider all Bukhari hadiiths or more than 90% of bukihaari hadiiths as 100% sahiih.. actually all sunni believes is based on hadiiths.. for example Stoning people who commit adultry is not in the quran , sunnis justified this barbaric act a bukhaari hadiith..


so mr midgrees now when you realised Shias have NOT different quran. you come whit another lie whichs Shias has different SHAHADA than SUNNIS!!! AND AGAINST shias has identical SHAHADA as Sunnis whichs LAA ILAAHA ILLAA ALLAH MAXAMED RASUUL ALLAH SCW WACAALAA AALIHII WASALAM...

SO mr midgreez stop beleiving proboganda against SHIAS...

[MidriGeez]

Salaam to you all, a new gang member joined here.
If I try to take part in this interesting debate, I would suggest there is nothing big difference between Sunni Shia and they are all muslims. Islam propagate for five basic pillars of Islam and six obligatory ones, in which every Muslim must be abided by to become Muslim, and they are as follows:
1. Believing Allah but no other deity
2. Mohamed is his messenger
3. Doing the five prayers
4. Fasting in Ramadan month
5. Going to hajj if one affords.

The other six are:
. Believing in Allah
2. Believing in the existce of angels
3. Believing in all Allah's books including the old ones
4. Believing in all prophets and messengers
5. Believing in thereafter or day of judgement
6. Believing in events and incidents that they happen with power of Allah wether good or bad and every one must acknowledge then.
6.

Shia shahada and pillars are different to those above.

So what are the Pillars of Shia then?

Apart from the shahada they have different and more pillars, including Khoms which means one fifth of your income going to the imam (sustani,kahamani etc) and their main pillar Imamite which means you must believe that ali was the second succesor after the prophet PBUH meaning they have to call Omar/osman/abubakr and aisha RA all Kufaar, not only that but all the sahaba are Kufaar in their beliefs exept for 6 or 7, lol so thousands of sahaba including the closest of the prophet pbuh are Kufaar, some became kufaar before the prophet death and some after and some were hiding their beliefs and pretending to be muslims, this is also another pillar of their belief its called Tabare2.

This is an insult to Islam and to our prophet don't you think allah swt would warn the prophet??? Shia islam is the jewish way of trying to destroy islam from the inside after the jews failed to destroy islam with power/war in the prophet days (they even conspired to kill him). The koran was compiled By osman/abu bakr and omar primarily with the help of ali RA, if you attack those three Omar/abubakr/osman and call them kufaar islam credibility is at stake, how could the koran be compiled by kufaar this is even an insult to allah swt (astgferallah). Islam sunna is the only religion in the world today with credible sources and narration from the time of the prophet, the yahud tried many times to corrupt the koran but failed because allah swt promised he would keep it safe by having millions of people knowing it by heart (this is how the yahud corrupted christianity) when the jews failed they turned to the secondry source which is hadith, so they try to use the hadiths to question the beliefs of the sahaba a backdoor if you like to attack the koran and those who compiled it. IF YOU ARE A SHIA YOU CAN'T BELIEF IN THIS KORAN BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN THEIR BELIEFS CONTRADICT BELIEVING IN IT.

[DR-YALAXOOW]

midgreez actually is the contrary. salafism the sunni branch are the one closest to the jews trying to destroy islam whit inside.. salafism has thousends of thousends hadiiths which no one know where they from.. salafism gave islam a bad name.. salafism invented suicide bombing.. making takfiir against their follow muslims. killing muslims... killing innocent civilians in the name of islam.. thanks to saudi salafism which was spread all islamic world today most hated religion on this planet is islam..


look Taliban. look al shabaab. look algerian GI. look bakistan people who kill in the name of islam, brainwashing young people that they will go paradise and meet 72 virgin bye killing their follow muslims.... marka is not shias which destroying islam whit in but its sunni salafism whichs destroying islam and trying to change and add quran new verses...

[MidriGeez]

midgreezz firs he was claiming that Shia has different Quran than THE quran we know and after i showed thats not true, and Sunnis is one tho trying to corrupt the quran and i showed evidance of Bukhari hadiith and MUSLIM hadiith, mr midgreez started to deny and claime Bukhaari and muslim hadiith are not sahiih hadiiths.. and mr midgrees thats not true Sunnis consider all Bukhari hadiiths or more than 90% of bukihaari hadiiths as 100% sahiih.. actually all sunni believes is based on hadiiths.. for example Stoning people who commit adultry is not in the quran , sunnis justified this barbaric act a bukhaari hadiith..


so mr midgrees now when you realised Shias have different quran. you comed whit another lie whichs Shias has different SHAHADA than SUNNIS!!! AND AGAINST shias has identical SHAHADA as Sunnis whichs LAA ILAAHA ILLAA ALLAH MAXAMED RASUUL ALLAH SCW WACAALAA AALIHII WASALAM...

SO mr midgreez stop beleiving proboganda against SHIAS...

You must be kidding me right???? i said only 3% of Buckari hadiths and muslim are >>>>>>>>> AUTHENTIC<<<<<<<<<< sahih hadiths are only like no more than 20,000 from more than millions hadith, if you just google the pillars of shia you wouldn't even reply with this nonsense to me. i have read 100 books about this topic IN ARABIC AS WELL.

You are having a problem between reading a hadith and knowing if its sahih or not, i only put this at your lack of knowledge in this subject, But let me ask you one question, IF the shia claims the omar/abu bakr/osman RA are not muslims aren't they contradicting the verse when allah swt addressed them "ya a2yuha al mo'meneen" when they were warned not to rise their voices over the prophet pbuh in his present (Omar and abubakr RA Were arguing and their voices were raised in one occasion infront of the prophet pbuh), so the shia believe in this koran but call omar and abu bakr the biggest Kufaar going against allah swt words in the verse???? seriously dude you are defending shia now on the expense of our beloved sahaba and our mother aisha and going against god's word??? wallahi i would rather die then even think about what you trying to acheive.


shaytan must be working hard on you to troll but know this and consider it a warning if you are trolling wallahi you better repent and stop this is no joke matter the prophet warned us about playing around with islam, and if you don't know then leave this subject alone and go and read more because the prophet PBUH also warned us about something which we will say even unintentionally you would suffer at the bottom of the hell for it. your choice Mate but i have warned you and did my part if i would be asked in yom al qiyama, either stop trolling or read more about this topic, don't presume something because "i didn't know or relaise" is not going to be an excuse trust me.

[MidriGeez]

midgreez actually is the contrary. salafism the sunni branch are the one closest to the jews trying to destroy islam whit inside.. salafism has thousends of thousends hadiiths which no one know where they from.. salafism gave islam a bad name.. salafism invented suicide bombing.. making takfiir against their follow muslims. killing muslims... killing innocent civilians in the name of islam.. thanks to saudi salafism which was spread all islamic world today most hated religion on this planet is islam..


look Taliban. look al shabaab. look algerian GI. look bakistan people who kill in the name of islam, brainwashing young people that they will go paradise and meet 72 virgin bye killing their follow muslims.... marka is not shias which destroying islam whit in but its sunni salafism whichs destroying islam and trying to change and add quran new verses...

Howe about the Muslim brotherhood?? In egypt?in tunisia??? Hamas??? they use Sufi Manhaj primarily??? but they count themselves as salafi. there is a different between salafi and wahabi do you know what it is??? are you even a muslim???

Do you even know what salafism is??? what is sufisim?? what is Ahul al sunna wa al jamma3a??? i am starting to relaise you lack knowledge in this subject. you watching too much fox news i think. You are accusing salafisim of trying to add verses wallahi i hope you are not trolling because accusing someone of doing ta7reef to the koran when they are innocent is something which would make me feel scared to face allah swt with. Allah swt promised that the koran would never be corrupted and you saying salafi added verses and corrupted it, i am speechless wallahi you are walking on a very thin ice mate keep going with this and we will see where it would land you. Honestly if i was you i wouldn't sleep until i repent you don't want to die in your sleep with this idea/belief in your heart, tell me are you muslim????

[DR-YALAXOOW]

Muslim brotherhood or akhwaanul muslimiin and hamaas are branch of salafism... they have noting to do whit sufism... and cursing omar and abuukar is not in the quran.. quran does not mention the names of omar and abuukar and other friends of the prophet sc.. and though is bad thing cursing friends of prophet sc, that only does not make you non muslim... Shias believe same shahada as sunnis.. shias pray 5 times a day. they have same qibla as Sunnis.. they have same quran.. and actually Shias they do not make takfiirism against other muslims as SUNNIS salafism do...

[MidriGeez]

Muslim brotherhood or akhwaanul muslimiin and hamaas are branch of salafism... they have noting to do whit sufism... and cursing omar and abuukar is not in the quran.. quran does not mention the names of omar and abuukar and other friends of the prophet sc.. and though is bad thing cursing friends of prophet sc, that only does not make you non muslim... Shias believe same shahada as sunnis.. shias pray 5 times a day. they have same qibla as Sunnis.. they have same quran.. and actually Shias they do not make takfiirism against other muslims as SUNNIS salafism do...

Muslim brotherhood "a5wan al muslimeen" of Egypt and Tunis use the Fiqh of sufi munhaai combined with the Abu hanifa school of thoughts, you didn't answer my question which proves to me that is why your knowledge on this subject is really lacking. You can't put 2 and 2 Together could you?? how could you believe a book is 100% authentic (koran) when it contradict your beliefs??? Either the shia by calling the sahaba and aisha kufaar (astgferallah) are going against the koran and the word of allah swt or their whole belief system is false, if they believe in our koran then they are ignoring allah swt when the sahaba are addressed as "Mo'meneen" and calling them kufaars, the only way out for them is to say that this koran is not complete/corrupted and the correct koran would be brough to the world By the mahdi who is in occultation.
Cursing the sahaba is a big sin and cursing Aisha is kufr according to most sunni scholars, but the problem with them cursing the sahaba they have entered a dimension where they are even judging allah swt words. shia believe in imamite if you don't believe in imamite you are not a muslim according to them last time i checked Imamite wasn't in the 5 pillars of islam, their prayers is combined into 3 times a day where they pray the 5 salat in those 3 occasions, i would suggest you start with shia books about their believes before you make statements especially about what they think of all sunni muslims (they call us Nasibi not muslims) where killing us is halal. READ THEIR BOOKS THEN TALK.

[DR-YALAXOOW]

Show me the verse in the quran which says that you can not curse iasha or omar??
Iam not saying you shoul curse aisha or omar. Yes its danbi but cursing those people only that will not make you gaal.
And sunnis scholars are not god send prophets therefore they can not make takfiir againt other muslims.

[DR-YALAXOOW]

Shias pray 5 times. The only different is they pray salaat duhur and salaat casar after one another . After they finish duhur they directly start praying salaat azir.

And i told you its sunnis who believe there are missing chapters of the quran and rajm verses and adult breasfeeding verses. Shia they have same quran as we know 114 suras whichs 6666 verses.

And shias never make takfiirsm againt other muslims. Shias see sunnis as 100% muslims. Its salafims who started making other muslims as kaafiriin.

[DR-YALAXOOW]

Word muumi'niin means believers. Muminiin is not only sahabas. You see your chancing the quran your own way. The arabic word of muuminiin mean"beliievers" kuwii rumeeyey. You can not cliame that word is for only sahabas.

[MidriGeez]

Show me the verse in the quran which says that you can not curse iasha or omar??
Iam not saying you shoul curse aisha or omar. Yes its danbi but cursing those people only that will not make you gaal.
And sunnis scholars are not god send prophets therefore they can not make takfiir againt other muslims.

This is some of the verses where allah swt mention the sahaba in high regards,

كُنتُمْ خَيْرَ أُمَّةٍ أُخْرِجَتْ لِلنَّاسِ تَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَتَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ ۗ وَلَوْ آمَنَ أَهْلُ الْكِتَابِ لَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَّهُم ۚ مِّنْهُمُ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَأَكْثَرُهُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ

You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah. If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient. [Al-e-Imran Verse:110]

and

وَكَذَٰلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِّتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدً

And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you... [Al-Baqarah Verse:143]


This verse would make you think twice next time you open your mouth:



And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination..4:115.

Every single person knows who was the believers at the time of Prophet Mohammad(pbuh)...The Noble Companions of Allah's last Messenger Mohammad(pbuh).

So whosoever take other way then the Companions of Rasool Allah(pbuh) is surely gone astray.......
Further to explanation of the above verse the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said, "My Ummah will split" and the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) told us which would be the saved sect, saying, That which I and my Companions are upon.Tirmidhee

Further More:



And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people (Sahaba) have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not. [Baqarah Verse:13]


Anyway if you feel that the shia have the right to curse the sahaba and make takfir on them then you are agreeing on going against allah's swt words, allah swt is telling the believers on the sahaba status but if you feel that cursing the sahaba is a fair game then saxb i would never want to be in your shoes.

The verse i was talking about:

O ye who believe! Be not forward in the presence of Allah and His messenger, and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.
Qur'an 49:1
Narrated Ibn Abi Mulaika
'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair said that a group of riders belonging to Banu Tamim came to the Prophet, Abu Bakr said (to the Prophet ), "Appoint Al-Qa'qa bin Mabad bin Zurara as (their) ruler." 'Umar said (to the Prophet). "No! But appoint Al-Aqra bin Habis." Thereupon Abu Bakr said (to 'Umar). "You just wanted to oppose me." 'Umar replied. "I did not want to oppose you." So both of them argued so much that their voices became louder, and then the following Divine Verses were revealed in that connection:-- "O you who believe ! Do not be forward in the presence of Allah and His Apostle..." (till the end of Verse)...(49.1)
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:653, See also: Sahih Bukhari 6:60:370
[edit] 49:2 - 49:3
2. O ye who believe! Lift not up your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor shout when speaking to him as ye shout one to another, lest your works be rendered vain while ye perceive not.
3. Lo! they who subdue their voices in the presence of the messenger of Allah, those are they whose hearts Allah hath proven unto righteousness. Theirs will be forgiveness and immense reward.
Qur'an 49:2-3
Narrated Ibn Abi Mulaika

The two righteous persons were about to be ruined. They were Abu Bakr and 'Umar who raised their voices in the presence of the Prophet when a mission from Bani Tamim came to him. One of the two recommended Al-Aqra' bin Habeas, the brother of Bani Mujashi (to be their governor) while the other recommended somebody else. (Nafi', the sub-narrator said, I do not remember his name). Abu Bakr said to Umar, "You wanted nothing but to oppose me!" 'Umar said, "I did not intend to oppose you." Their voices grew loud in that argument, so Allah revealed:
'O you who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet.' (49.2) Ibn Az-Zubair said, "Since the revelation of this Verse, 'Umar used to speak in such a low tone that the Prophet had to ask him to repeat his statements." But Ibn Az-Zubair did not mention the same about his (maternal) grandfather (i.e. Abu Bakr).


^^^^^ So allah swt calls them believers and you advocate for the shia and excuse them that they can be cursed and called biggest kufaar, wallahi all i can see is you are telling us that you can argue with allah swt (asgferallah) about the sahaba characters.

[MidriGeez]

Shias pray 5 times. The only different is they pray salaat duhur and salaat casar after one another . After they finish duhur they directly start praying salaat azir.

And i told you its sunnis who believe there are missing chapters of the quran and rajm verses and adult breasfeeding verses. Shia they have same quran as we know 114 suras whichs 6666 verses.

And shias never make takfiirsm againt other muslims. Shias see sunnis as 100% muslims. Its salafims who started making other muslims as kaafiriin.

Do you know what they recite when they pray??? lol Ignorance.
you still haven't answered me what is the difference between Sunni/maliki/hanafi/sufi etc?? when you answer me this then you might be smart enough to figure out not to reply.
No one can make takfeer unless with a religious court, but one can say you are following the path of existing the islamic path.
you are accusing me of being a salafi, i am not a salafi, i follow the shafi school of thoughts, but if you know the shafi school of thought manhaj you wouldn't be throwing words like shafi is a light version of islam, it is the probarly the most strictest as its known as manhaj al hadeeth, horners say they follow the shafi manhaj but its all mix and match, if you were to follow the shafi school of thought strictly you would call salafi's modern muslims lol , what we follow is mix of the least strict 4 forms of the madhabs, But then again if you knew what was the difference between the manhaj and sunni's you wouldn't be talking nonsense in here, hence all are called AHUL AL SUNNA WA AL JAMMA3A.

[MidriGeez]

you say you follow the shafi madhab????

From math'hab of Al-Imam Al-Shafi'iy (radiya'Allahu 'anhu).


Verdict of Imam Sam'ani al-Shafi

Imam Abu Saad Sam'ani al-Shafi (d: 498H / may Allah have mercy on him) has quoted ijma (consensus) regarding the takfir of Imami Shi'as in his Kitab-al-Ansab.

Imam Dhahbi (may Allah have mercy on him) has praised him in these words,

الحافظ البارع العلامه تاج الاسلام المجتهد ثقه

(Tazkira, 4:107)

He writes,

لأنساب للسمعاني - (ج 3 / ص 188)
واجتمعت الامة على تكفير الامامية لانهم يعتقدون تضليل الصحابة وينكرون إجماعهم وينسبونهم إلى مالا يليق بهم

"The Ummah has a consensus (ijma) on the takfir of the Imamiyyah, because they believe the Companions (Sahabah) are misguided, they reject their consensus and they attribute to them that which does not befit them.”

(Al-Ansab, 3:188)



Verdict of Imam al-Shaf'i

سمعت البويطي يقول: سألت الشافعي: أصلي خلف الرافضي ؟ قال: لا تصل خلف الرافضي، ولا القدري، ولا المرجئ.
قلت: صفهم لنا قال: من قال: الايمان قول، فهو مرجئ، ومن قال: إن أبا بكر وعمر ليسا بإمامين، فهو رافضي، ومن جعل المشيئة إلى نفسه، فهو قدري

"Yusuf ibn Yahya al-Buwayti said, 'I asked al-Shaf'i (may Allah have mercy on him), 'Can I pray behind a Rafidhi?' He said, 'Do not pray behind the Rafidhi, nor the Qadari, nor the Murjiyi'. I said, 'describe them to me.' He said, `The one who says that Iman is statement [only], then he is Murjiyi`. And whosoever says that Abu Bakr and 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with them) are not the two imams, then he is a Rafidhi. And whosoever places the Will for himself, he is Qadari."

(Siyar A`lam al-Nubala', 10:31)

Remember if you are following the shafi madhab not to pray behind a shia, unless you want to follow the Ibn hanbal madhab then you might pray behind a shia if you believe his salaat is valid, lol

[MidriGeez]

Word muumi'niin means believers. Muminiin is not only sahabas. You see your chancing the quran your own way. The arabic word of muuminiin mean"beliievers" kuwii rumeeyey. You can not cliame that word is for only sahabas.

so who were the believers when the verse came down??? The sahaba's which shia made kufaar bar 2 or 3 including ali RA. WOW your knowledge on islam is really zero dude. did you think there were million of believers in the era of the prophet pbuh??? wallahi you are lost.