Somalia has no future as a state.

[metamorphosis]

Who takes the OP serious? He just made a thread about some nicca getting a job in hamar because he was marehan. How gullible!

[Hyperactive]

Meyle, you have the definition of a tribal democracy, where people vote based on tribal lines, did you forget your most recent lower government elections?

Somaliland is at where Somalia was at in the 60's

maybe 60 were much better situation and we went back word with fake, qabiil wa la assay??!!!!!

[SimplySerene]

Also, how have the Isaaq on s'net been any different tribally than the other qabiils on here?

PO i think i should be done here

As far as snet goes I see a difference.
I find that more people from Somalia act as if discussing qabil is more backwards then those from Somaliland. For example, I think they more likely to keep their tribe a secret if you met them for the first time in person. I don’t know it’s just the impression I get when I read threads on snet. I think Somalilanders are more open about discussing tribe
Here are some recents threads that reinforce what I think
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=341434
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=338505

[Meyle]

Perfect order,


Tribal democracy beats no democracy. We lost 54 years because of the illegal union with Somalia but we're on our way today. People might vote along clan lines in most cases but the political parties are based on ideologies. With education comes enlightenment and maybe in 5-10 years time people will vote differently.


To address your other statement, I simply disagree.
We don't have the same culture, mentality etc.

We're different.

[sahal80]

Sahal,


Maybe Somalia needs one dominant clan. Isaaq dominates because we outnumber all the other clans by far. The second largest clan in Somaliland is Gadubiirsi and they're smaller than the 4 largest Isaaq sub clans respectively, those clans being Habar Awal, Habar Yoonis, Cidagalle and Habar Jeclo. When Riyaale was in office his clan and sub clan dominated many sectors and no one opposed. Today they don't dominate because they're not in office but they're always granted the Vice President seat and they have a minimum amount of seats within the government to make sure they get their share of the pie. The same goes with other clans as well. The Ciise and HG - Fiqishini who are among the smallest clans in SL, have their own ministers.

We have a different political culture in Somaliland as well. It's based on collectivistic values.The greater good comes before individual interests. In Somalia it's more about alliances and political interests and individual interests.

With all that you still can't compare to somalia and we still have the same tribal culture!

The difference is that your politicians have come over it! Think better...etc

Your region and puntland subclans live in a different parties so it will not effect hargeysa or garoowe when a war takes place so that is one point

Your region has seen the same tribal war of xamar but cigaal was a different politician, he got the support of two subclans that could make the majority in there, he totally forced his opponant subclan and has disarmed them.

Puntland has the same culture but of course are abit organized and are one subclan its not even enough to become president in puntland if your not from the main three big cities!

Their historical elites are based in boosaaso and these have their rivals in galkacyo so they made garowe their capital. They were lucky, had a some war because of AY wants to stay in the power and adde muse from boosaaso wants to replace him but for their luckness, AY has dicided to see his luck in the somali election and as the xamar clan each subclan had three candidates including mine who had two he won it. This has stopped the war in puntland going on.

Let us say the politicians are different.

[Sagaashan]

So many truths in one thread

I also feel very pessimistic about Somalia’s viability and its treacherous qabiil indoctrination. One thing that keeps me optimistic is that almost every African nation are on this thin line when it comes to governance, tribalism, power sharing, and all the components of running a sovereign nation. Those nations have not reached their limits yet, but when shit hits the fan they will all succumb to the same level of barbarity as Somalia just as in South Sudan, Libya, CAR, etc. They will also find it very tantamount to rebuild and start over.

Somali qabiil has no end, as people have no enemies left to fight they turn their guns on each other as it happened in Xamar, Hargeysa, and Kismaayo. The onion sample used by many Sheikhs is apt to describe the qabiil quandary. The loyalty to tribe well-and-above nationalism or fighting your cousins afterwards is very primitive and in the case of Somalia permanent. This lack of unity or purpose is preventing Somalis from helping each other on grand scale due to the residue of qabiil hatred and mistrust. Somali people despise one another so much that foreigners are needed to intervene. For instance, in Southern Somalia you have thousand of Amisom soldiers who come from corrupt and undemocratic countries who are helping out Somalia. These soldiers are nothing more than Somali’s ragtag militia with uniforms and AK47s. They are being paid higher wages, get better incentives, and are given all the necessary hardware. I am sure Somalis can provide such a force in nanosecond and would be a golden opportunity for the millions of unemployed youth all across Somalia, but that will never happen due to qabiil. That Somali person is primarily seen as clan A rather than a Somali individual who is interested in fighting, defending, and dying for his country. This simple act is to me one of the clearest manifestations of a broken system that will take decades to repair if at all.

The two positive things I see in the Somalia situation are increased roles of Sheikhs and traditional elders (nabadoons). These are two of the most stabilizing factors for a broken nation and for the revival of the nation if used and empowered correctly. The pious sheikhs can provide a survival tool kit that is currently missing in the Somali solution. I am in no way talking about the current crop of political opportunists using such noble titles to further their economical self importance. The Sheikhs provide transparency, honesty, honor, and dedication that are admirable. The humanitarian and other important economic industries they set up are all to see but the little things they do every day to aid and make peace is also noteworthy. Traditional elders are also vital, especially in the South. Puntland and Somaliland are only at their current place because of the robust traditional elders play in politics and peace constructively. Honoring them as Somaliland and giving them a supersized role is needed.

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

Baryahaan ayuu waayay boonkii iyo hilibkii waraabaha uu cuni jiray.

[Methylamine]

Somalia has a future if the current generation of old tribalist politicians are wiped off this Earth. Somalia isn't where it is because of foreign agents, but rather useless politicians who only think about themselves and their immediate kin.

[Meyle]

Sahal,


Maybe Somalia needs one dominant clan. Isaaq dominates because we outnumber all the other clans by far. The second largest clan in Somaliland is Gadubiirsi and they're smaller than the 4 largest Isaaq sub clans respectively, those clans being Habar Awal, Habar Yoonis, Cidagalle and Habar Jeclo. When Riyaale was in office his clan and sub clan dominated many sectors and no one opposed. Today they don't dominate because they're not in office but they're always granted the Vice President seat and they have a minimum amount of seats within the government to make sure they get their share of the pie. The same goes with other clans as well. The Ciise and HG - Fiqishini who are among the smallest clans in SL, have their own ministers.

We have a different political culture in Somaliland as well. It's based on collectivistic values.The greater good comes before individual interests. In Somalia it's more about alliances and political interests and individual interests.

With all that you still can't compare to somalia and we still have the same tribal culture!

The difference is that your politicians have come over it! Think better...etc

Your region and puntland subclans live in a different parties so it will not effect hargeysa or garoowe when a war takes place so that is one point

Your region has seen the same tribal war of xamar but cigaal was a different politician, he got the support of two subclans that could make the majority in there, he totally forced his opponant subclan and has disarmed them.

Puntland has the same culture but of course are abit organized and are one subclan its not even enough to become president in puntland if your not from the main three big cities!

Their historical elites are based in boosaaso and these have their rivals in galkacyo so they made garowe their capital. They were lucky, had a some war because of AY wants to stay in the power and adde muse from boosaaso wants to replace him but for their luckness, AY has dicided to see his luck in the somali election and as the xamar clan each subclan had three candidates including mine who had two he won it. This has stopped the war in puntland going on.

Let us say the politicians are different.

You cannot compare Somaliland to Somalia and Puntland. The latter being dominated by one sub clan and the presidents of that regional state being from the same sub clan. Somalia on the other hand is different, individual interests, political interests, and the various alliances seems to be more important than state building etc.


Somaliland is completely different. The collectivistic nature of our people lead to the reconciliation process and the conferences in 91 and 93. We then adopted a tribal system and later on democracy was implemented. Despite being the majority we still safeguard the interests and existence of the other clans that live in Somaliland. More than 60% of the tax revenues comes from the major cities in Somaliland who happen to be Isaaq cities for instance Hargeysa, Burco, Berbera, Gabiley etc. not to mention Berbera port yet the revenues are distributed to the different levels of government and the various county councils and regions. All of this because the greater good of Somaliland comes before individual interests and clan interests something unheard of in Somalia and Puntland.


Edit: the war in SL was a political war rather than a civil war compared to Somalia. Our elders and both parties agreed to end the war because it wasn't beneficial for anyone only our enemies.

[GIJaamac]

I agree with Voltage. There will be never the same Somalia of 1960-1991. What HAGs should do is just release useless gedo and puntland regions from Somalia and add them to Ethiopia.
The rest will stay with Xamar. Everybody shall be happy afterwards.

[SultanOrder]

Also, how have the Isaaq on s'net been any different tribally than the other qabiils on here?

PO i think i should be done here

As far as snet goes I see a difference.
I find that more people from Somalia act as if discussing qabil is more backwards then those from Somaliland. For example, I think they more likely to keep their tribe a secret if you met them for the first time in person. I don’t know it’s just the impression I get when I read threads on snet. I think Somalilanders are more open about discussing tribe
Here are some recents threads that reinforce what I think
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=341434
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=338505

I don't know if you are accidently trying to prove my point, because all you have highlighted is the general ignorance of qabil until about teenage years, and usually through a relative. Both isaaqs and non isaaqs have had parrallel experiences.

Serene, I don't know if it is because you don't see many non isaaqs or have interactions with them outside of s'net, I would assure you that somalis are the same and they have similiar attitudes.

[Meyle]

^

Nah we don't, we don't have similar attitudes

[eliteSomali]

Somalia has a future if the current generation of old tribalist politicians are wiped off this Earth. Somalia isn't where it is because of foreign agents, but rather useless politicians who only think about themselves and their immediate kin.

Qabyaalad is wide spread. In fact I would argue more and more youngsters are more clannists than the oldies. Take Somalinet for example. It's embarrassing that we would be content with having kuffars in our country. Very very embarrassing.

[original dervish]

Those "kuffars" are keeping millions of us alive.
They protect & feed us.......if they leave we die like flies.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

^^^ I think the point is that if qabiil didn't destroy Somalia, gaalo NGOs and troops wouldn't be in the country.