Open Your Minds! Your world is too small. (Must See)

[ZubeirAwal]

Islam necessitates the belief in God despite the inability of humans to see Him, He created time and space and is outside of time and space, He is free from all the directions that pertain to a body. If we can see God, then what would be the point of this short-lived life that is a test? The test is to believe that he exists knowing that you cannot see him, and that your faith will lead you eventually to Him.

You cannot find God if you cannot even reach Jupiter, how bold and ignorant mankind can be. The big bang theory occurred and aethiestic scientists declared that because there are such laws in physics such as gravity that the big bang can occur with the need of God, this is the child-like mistake a scientist can make. The laws of physics do not have personal agency, you cannot bundle up a bunch of mechanical junk and state that in 1 billion years it will transform into a well-functioning boeing 747 all on it's own! There is no doubt that this universe has design, the design and the uniqueness of it goes right down to the fingerprint, and how everyone has their own mark upon their fingers, the laws of physics cannot function as a personal agency, the personal agency that was behind the big bang theory is the One true God, Allah.

To say that the big bang theory sprung by chance and we are all a result of an 'accident' is the most absurd claim a theologian can make, the fool tries to use tools to search for God physically, the wise man sees God through creation.

[visious]

this thread was going great until the last few posts

it began with an intelligent debate between me and Som-transporter and it should have ended that way.

if you cant raise up good points and can only carry out baseless insults and untrue+idiotic claims then there was no reason for you to post anything.

how I wish more people were like Som

just look at this shit

Visious, You seem to be spamming the forums with your weird atheist videos.On an atheist-crusade preaching to us about your Godless religion are we?


I already mentioned to you the very important point that you ignored, which is, science as a limited tool cannot answer questions about God.

Also on your question on who ''created'' God, this is not the first time this was asked, you haven't discovered something new!. Do you also actually believe that this world came out of nothing and it came by chance?. Have you heard of the Kalam Argument for example??

I feel you get sucked into these aggressive atheist video clips without ''opening'' your ownmind as you put it.

science cannot answer something fictional

when did I spam ? this was my first video and a discussion thread between me and Somali-Transporter

Atheist crusade? pffft your post could not have been anymore stupid.

These braindead white-worshipping atheists have no other place in the cyber world but there to project their useless drivel?

Islam necessitates the belief in God despite the inability of humans to see Him, He created time and space and is outside of time and space, He is free from all the directions that pertain to a body. If we can see God, then what would be the point of this short-lived life that is a test? The test is to believe that he exists knowing that you cannot see him, and that your faith will lead you eventually to Him.

You cannot find God if you cannot even reach Jupiter, how bold and ignorant mankind can be. The big bang theory occurred and aethiestic scientists declared that because there are such laws in physics such as gravity that the big bang can occur with the need of God, this is the child-like mistake a scientist can make. The laws of physics do not have personal agency, you cannot bundle up a bunch of mechanical junk and state that in 1 billion years it will transform into a well-functioning boeing 747 all on it's own! There is no doubt that this universe has design, the design and the uniqueness of it goes right down to the fingerprint, and how everyone has their own mark upon their fingers, the laws of physics cannot function as a personal agency, the personal agency that was behind the big bang theory is the One true God, Allah.

To say that the big bang theory sprung by chance and we are all a result of an 'accident' is the most absurd claim a theologian can make, the fool tries to use tools to search for God physically, the wise man sees God through creation.

men just fuck off and read a science book you retard you dont even know what you are saying

look back at this thread and read all the things Som transporter wrote. he knows how to carry himself well in a debate and maybe you should learn from him.

I am not gonna respond to such unethical posts again

[Expresso]

d/p

[Expresso]

I could just as easily have called your posts stupid (which I believe they are) but I didn't. It seems like you're interested in preaching rather than discussing.

Now again,this is your second attempt at avoiding my very important points as you did previously.

No, I said science is a limited tool used by us humans in order to answer what we can observe through our 5 senses. You want to explore the reality of God with your limited 5 senses, which is frankly not going to work. This is why we use philosophy which is the basis of scientific thought, ethics, rationalism etc



Actually, believing in a God who created this universe is more rational than believing that it came out of nothing....

My question to you is : Do you believe that the universe came out of nothing?

[Expresso]

[visious]

I could just as easily have called your posts stupid (which I believe they are) but I didn't. It seems like you're interested in preaching rather than discussing.

Now again,this is your second attempt at avoiding my very important points as you did previously.

No, I said science is a limited tool used by us humans in order to answer what we can observe through our 5 senses. You want to limit the reality of God to your limited 5 senses, which is frankly not going to work. This is why we have what we call philosophy which gives is the basis of scientific thought.

Actually, believing in a God who created this universe is more rational than believing that it came out of nothing....

My question to you is : Do you believe the universe came out of nothing?

okay prove to me you arent stupid then . you know I demand proof in everything

sorry i did not see any of your posts on this thread how could I have avoided your point.

coming to your question now

NO! the universe did not just pop up out of no where.

The big bang also was not the very beginning , There was shit going on before the actual explosion and expansion.

something about cosmic inflation and gravititional waves that scientists have observed, I don't know anymore than that. I admit! I am no physicist or a scientist of any kind.

There is still research going on and I cant do anything but wait

[Expresso]

What? So you trust in things that you cannot see or read or experiment yourself and before which you may die? Interestingly,seems like blind faith to me. Sound familiar?


Gravitational waves were not found,even if they showed the universe was eternal it wouldn't necessarily be atheistic http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014 ... -inflation


So do you believe that the universe came into being by chance?

[visious]

What? So you trust in things that you cannot see or read or experiment yourself and before which you may die? Interestingly,seems like blind faith to me. Sound familiar?


Gravitational waves were not found,even if they showed the universe was eternal it wouldn't necessarily be atheistic http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014 ... -inflation


So do you believe that the universe came into being by chance?

sorry I didn't reply earlier expresso. This site has no notifications. You will lose all your conversations after you leave

I would experiment it myself but I don't have the money,time or knowledge to do this kind of experiment

scientists do

I trust scientist and believe they are smart enough to crack this shit wide open soon. why wouldn't they? Scientists made it to the moon when we thought it would be impossible. scientists made it possible for us to communicate from wherever the hell we are in the world right now. with just 1 click. so why cant they find the origin of the universe?

Besides there are a lot more ways to disprove God , not only science even though it is the absolute number 1 reason to disbelieve in God

History and Sociology are both major factors that lead to loss of faith

[Expresso]

What? So you trust in things that you cannot see or read or experiment yourself and before which you may die? Interestingly,seems like blind faith to me. Sound familiar?


Gravitational waves were not found,even if they showed the universe was eternal it wouldn't necessarily be atheistic http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014 ... -inflation


So do you believe that the universe came into being by chance?

sorry I didn't reply earlier expresso. This site has no notifications. You will lose all your conversations after you leave

I would experiment it myself but I don't have the money,time or knowledge to do this kind of experiment

scientists do

I trust scientist and believe they are smart enough to crack this shit wide open soon. why wouldn't they? Scientists made it to the moon when we thought it would be impossible. scientists made it possible for us to communicate from wherever the hell we are in the world right now. with just 1 click. so why cant they find the origin of the universe?

Besides there are a lot more ways to disprove God , not only science even though it is the absolute number 1 reason to disbelieve in God

History and Sociology are both major factors that lead to loss of faith

That's fine, I'm not always on Snet as I'm busy most days except for when I come for entertainment and such. LOL

Now it looks to me you don't see the contradiction where you say you only believe in things only after ''proof'' has been given yet you still believe in things that you haven't actually have evidence for.. like the above case. If someone else did that you would have said it's irrational.

The evidence we have says the universe had a beginning not eternal.

My question which you haven't answered is, do you believe the universe came into being by chance? And why is there something instead of nothing?
We know it as a fact that the universe had a beginning. According to the kalam cosmological Argument,there is a good reason to believe that the universe did not come into being by chance but was caused into existence by God. 1.If the universe began to exist , then there is a transcendent cause which brought the universe into existence. 2. The universe began to exist. 3. Therefore there is a transcendent cause which brought the universe into existence. Now this transcendent cause which must be beyond the universe and eternal, outside of time and space must be God. There are also others evidence for God like the fine-tuning of the universe,objective moral values etc..

[visious]

Now it looks to me you don't see the contradiction where you say you only believe in things only after ''proof'' has been given yet you still believe in things that you haven't actually have evidence for.. like the above case. If someone else did that you would have said it's irrational.

Good point . That flopped from my side, I admit



about the big bang, That video really helps. please check it out.

the big bang is obviously true but the question "what was there before the big bang?' is yet to be answered.

coming to your other points now now

do you believe the universe came into being by chance? NO! ofcourse not.

1.If the universe began to exist , then there is a transcendent cause which brought the universe into existence.The universe began to exist. 3. Therefore there is a transcendent cause which brought the universe into existence. Now this transcendent cause which must be beyond the universe and eternal, outside of time and space must be God.

the problem is there is no evidence or proof that a supreme beign brought the universe into existance more than thousands of years old books from an era where people believed that the earth was flat and the sun used to revolve around the earth and not vice versa.

There are also others evidence for God like the fine-tuning of the universe,objective moral values.

The universe is not fine tuned. It lacks an atmosphere , it is unstable, it has many blackholes in its galaxies, starts die and explode, shockwave etc. Those things can ruin entire planets in mili-seconds.

Plus there are other universes. If God created this one, then who created the others?

who created God?

even if there was a God. then...

which is the right God?

these questions have no answer because something real or true should never cause this much confusion

[Expresso]

The video didn't show much, the big bang explains the inflation of the universe from a point called the singularity from which time and space began etc. And then it goes on to about the causes. Atheists at first didn't like the idea of a big bang because the thought that the universe had a beginning and that time and space began sounded like divine intervention to them. .But now most people accept the huge evidence for the big bang.

What was there 'before' the singularity you say? That question is meaningless because there was no before since there was no time prior the big bang. The real question is, why did the universe begin to exist? Why is there something rather than nothing? Either the universe exists because it had to (like God caused it), or it popped into being out of nothing with no cause.

Your position is that you believe there was something that caused the universe.Now,everything we know has a cause,nothing can come into being by itself,so of course the universe had a cause.

Whatever that exists has a reason to exist,the universe we know began to exist, but it must have a transcendent cause outside of itself .i.e. space and time. Meaning it has to be outside of time and space and universe to bring it into existence. It is reasonable to believe that that cause that must be above time and space and outside universe is God.

Then you ask who created God or the cause.I'll ask What good reasons is there that God even had a cause? The first answer that God had caused the universe is good enough conclusion, if we use ockham's razor principle which tell us that the answer that uses the least assumptions should be taken as the best explanation for the effect,and here it is that God is the first cause.

I don't agree with your reasons of why the universe is not fine-tuned,things like black holes is not what is meant by fine-tuning of the universe. It means that there were conditions that were set which were so delicate that any small change in these physical consonants would mean that life could not exist.

By “fine-tuning” one does not mean “designed” but simply that the fundamental constants and quantities of nature fall into an exquisitely narrow range of values which render our universe life-permitting. If these constants and quantities to be altered by even a hair’s breadth, the delicate balance would be upset and life could not exist. For example the cosmological constant, which must be fine-tuned to one part in 101^20 in order for life to exist, are being discovered as physics advances.

Check out Sir Martin Rees’ book Just Six Numbers (New York: Basic Books, 2000), on six numbers which must be finely tuned for our existence. But there are more.

There's only 3 reasons why these things are in place/fine-tuning for intelligent life: 1 physical necessity 2. chance 3. design.

3 is the most reasonable explanation because a universe that prohibits life is still possible so fine-tuning isn't a physical necessity.

these questions have no answer because something real or true should never cause this much confusion

Just because some can get confused about certain things does not make those same things untrue/unreal. That is flawed thinking.

[visious]

You seem to be more of a Deist than a Theist.

there are thousands of planets in the "safe zone" and can sustain life in this galaxy alone. So this single tiny planet on the edge of the milky way was not made for us.

okay , let me be an Agnostic for a moment and say this.

what if there is a God? A God who created the universe and everything in it. A God who controls everything.

which God is the real one?

There are literally thousands of Gods that claim to have created the universe.

and if your God is the real one, what makes the other Gods false/fiction.

[Expresso]

Hello, I've been travelling last couple days so I'm sorry if I'm a little late. Nope, no deist here. Theist, Muslim specifically

I showed that there is sufficient rational evidence for the existence of God and that nothing that begins to exist is due to chance. After that it's just looking at what attributes would this God have.

There is no evidence for the multiverse theory, but let us think how highly unlikely it would be to have other observable universes with similar fine-tuning as ours, and have all constants and variables falling into place within a very small range,by pure chance to permit life? Probability is so low. Also for the low entropy state of our universe to occur by pure chance there's a probability of only 1:10^10^(123).There are way more things that have a much lower chance of happening like seeing strange universes if we were part of a multiverse, but we don't observe them.


Which God you ask? For start,monotheism makes the most sense than polytheism for many reasons,like if there were many gods there would be only one that would have the most power and be worthy to be really called God. And one of the attributes of the single cause of our universe should be omni potency and uniqueness since nothing should be like Him. I also find a lot of truth in the Qur'an and Islam which describe the character of a monotheistic all-powerful God.

How do you know what is good or bad without using your personal views and how do you know what truth is?