I might be able to bring her back....

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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by FAH1223 »

Perfect_Order wrote:
Advo wrote:last night I had people over my place, my neighbor and friends mostly. We were having a nice debate about Somalia and qabiil, everything was Gucci until most of them started expressing pro Somali and extreme anti-Arab sentiments. I knew exactly where the conversation was headed and just started zoning out mentally.

When they got brave enough to state their true agenda, I came in swinging. Basically besides me and my hommie who was of no help (smh) were the only believers. The rest consider themselves one of those bullsh!t labels. Anywho after I got my point across and they couldn't really rebuttal. They asked me if I still consider them Somali.

I told them in my own opinion I did not consider them Somali nor blood and stated my reasons. They dammm near had teary eyes cus I kept it one HUNNED. My neighbor is a great guy, I was friends with his younger brother (very religious) and he comes over all the time BUT there's no hope for the guy.

Now what surprised me was the young liberal girl who admitted to me she left Islam based on how Muslim women are treated and the fact that she didn't know much about the deen.

Anyways she said she wants to ask me more questions and is open to change, I may not be the best Muslim as I need to work on myself but inshallah soo duceeya that she comes back to the righteous path and that I can provide her with useful material.


Note: this is not a debate thread, all u extremists on both sides of the spectrum piss off.

Instead let's discuss how we can reach out to the lost young generation who are headed in that direction.
Send her to me bro
:leon:
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by Typhoon »

somali atheist are properly the dumbest people I have come across.
They hold views that they don`t understand.

Your average somali kufaar is a cliche atheist, they think they understand the philosophy of science and liberalism while totally being ignorant about it.

the two dichotomy of our time are: radical religion and Nihilism

What I find amazing is that science is at a point where it becomes compatible with religion as we move away from Newtonian mechanical world view to a unified quantum theory.

most somali atheist say they believe in empiricism but come what all kinds of emotional talk. at times they the audacity to say,
" i don`t believe in god"----- Well, believe without empirical evidence is the ultimate militant Faith is not? at-least we Muslims have historical evidence and scripture.

Advo woman and modern metrosexual liberals are emotional people, speak to them like a sufi and stay away from the language of jurisprudence.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by Jugjugwacwac »

Typhoon wrote:
most somali atheist say they believe in empiricism but come what all kinds of emotional talk. at times they the audacity to say,
" i don`t believe in god"----- Well, believe without empirical evidence is the ultimate militant Faith is not? at-least we Muslims have historical evidence and scripture.
And this is the crux of the matter. For all their talk of being empiricists their disbelief is nothing other than a leap of faith akin to the faith of believers which they love to ridicule, except it's much less grounded in logic. There is no logical way to arrive at atheism, because not being able to see something does not preclude the possibility of its existence. As for theism one can arrive at this position through pure logic alone, since nothing cannot beget something. In the end a rational person who is unsure should give some thought to Pascal's wager which posits that 'humans all bet with their lives either that God exists or not. Given the possibility that God actually does exist and assuming an infinite gain or loss associated with belief or unbelief in said God (as represented by an eternity in heaven or hell), a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.).'
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by GAMES »

Atheism among Somalis is the new hip, cool thing to do. Just some misguided little retards who think they are smarter than everyone else and know better.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by Khalid Ali »

People should believe what they want cidna in la qasbo maha , u have to believe you cant force some one to believe something it has to come from him or her , and allah leads who ever he wants. I dont think there are many atheists but many agnostic Somalis could be out there in secret. Anigu waan la yaaba dadka Christan noqda eeh Yidha jesus ba ii jeclaaaday , Christendom has been changed so many times meel la qabsada ma jirto.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by SooMaal11 »

Jugjugwacwac wrote:Let me explain why I think this way. Many many Somalis have a liberal outlook that is anithetical to Islam. They wholeheartedly endorse democracy (aspects of it that can't be reconciled with the deen), feminism and western conceptions of freedom and human rights. Now, either they are extremely ignorant of the deen and don't see the contradictions in their beliefs, or they're suffering from extreme cognitive dissonance as they attempt to be true Muslims and true liberals simultaneously, or they just pay lip service to deen just to make life easier for themselves but don't really believe or support the following: that men and women aren't equal, that slavery and concubinage aren't haram, that the Shariah endorses severe corporeal punishment for severe crimes, that the Prophet (PBUH) married Aisha when she was quite young, that the husband may lightly beat his wife in extreme cases, that you need two female witnesses to stand in for one male witness, that a man may marry up to four women, and the list goes on. These things upset them and they just cant accept any of it. And as we all know, if you reject a part of Islam you're no longer a Muslim.

Now that I've reframed the issue, what percent of Somalis do you think have no problems with those aspects of Islam I've stated above?

LOOOL you forgot to add homosexuality. :D
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by GAMES »

SooMaal11 wrote:
Jugjugwacwac wrote:Let me explain why I think this way. Many many Somalis have a liberal outlook that is anithetical to Islam. They wholeheartedly endorse democracy (aspects of it that can't be reconciled with the deen), feminism and western conceptions of freedom and human rights. Now, either they are extremely ignorant of the deen and don't see the contradictions in their beliefs, or they're suffering from extreme cognitive dissonance as they attempt to be true Muslims and true liberals simultaneously, or they just pay lip service to deen just to make life easier for themselves but don't really believe or support the following: that men and women aren't equal, that slavery and concubinage aren't haram, that the Shariah endorses severe corporeal punishment for severe crimes, that the Prophet (PBUH) married Aisha when she was quite young, that the husband may lightly beat his wife in extreme cases, that you need two female witnesses to stand in for one male witness, that a man may marry up to four women, and the list goes on. These things upset them and they just cant accept any of it. And as we all know, if you reject a part of Islam you're no longer a Muslim.

Now that I've reframed the issue, what percent of Somalis do you think have no problems with those aspects of Islam I've stated above?

LOOOL you forgot to add homosexuality. :D
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by ciddhartha »

Jugjugwacwac wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
most somali atheist say they believe in empiricism but come what all kinds of emotional talk. at times they the audacity to say,
" i don`t believe in god"----- Well, believe without empirical evidence is the ultimate militant Faith is not? at-least we Muslims have historical evidence and scripture.
And this is the crux of the matter. For all their talk of being empiricists their disbelief is nothing other than a leap of faith akin to the faith of believers which they love to ridicule, except it's much less grounded in logic. There is no logical way to arrive at atheism, because not being able to see something does not preclude the possibility of its existence. As for theism one can arrive at this position through pure logic alone, since nothing cannot beget something. In the end a rational person who is unsure should give some thought to Pascal's wager which posits that 'humans all bet with their lives either that God exists or not. Given the possibility that God actually does exist and assuming an infinite gain or loss associated with belief or unbelief in said God (as represented by an eternity in heaven or hell), a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.).'
Why are you lumping a diverse group of people into a label ("empiricists") that you can dismiss? The question of whether or not God exists is entirely philosophical, full stop. There is no answer because the question doesn't exist outside of our collective psyche.

If you accept Evolution (Islam is Creationist, btw) human intellect was not created and is not a miracle. With it came abstract thought (ideation), self-awareness (mortality), curiosity and emotional depth. It was from this potent combination that God was born (my opinion). Personally, I don't believe in God because I don't place much value in humanity, our beliefs, our endeavors or our self-image. Humans are predictable, lowly animals. The common dismissal of Sociology, Anthropology, Psychology, the so-called Human Sciences as pseudo-science (a joke) is a direct reflection of our own God-complex.

When I ask myself questions like "Why did early believers accept and/or propagate the accounts of Prophets?" I look to patterns of human behavior. Humans get tired of established religions and are receptive to adopting new beliefs. It is true now and it was true then. Nowadays, due to globalism, humans convert to religions of other regions, but new religions are still being born, new Prophets having revelations.

I remember some guy some place saying human civilization spreading is like mold on bread. We are not noble, we are not some great creation, we are a fungus growing and growing, sowing nothing but seeds of destruction and waste.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by LiquidHYDROGEN »

I've come to the conclusion most somalis, despite the myth about our fierce individualism, are in fact followers and sheep rather than leaders and trailblazers. Just look at all the morons on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc. and their sheep like mentality in following other trends and fashions e.g. the latest somali obsession with Shisha, crying about Palestine when their own tuulo is burning, crying about civil rights when most Somalis probably haven't experienced much racism in comparison to AAs, crying about FGM just because they saw another airhead xaliimo do the same, insult Islam just because they have a bad experience and their daddy didn't love them enough, running of to Syria and ISIS because they are horny, stupid and they saw other people doing the same etc.

That's why I believe that the Somali athiest and the Somali Salafi/khawarij etc have many things in common. For one, they do not believe what they do due to any use of logic or cognitive reflection. They are who they are because they are angry but too stupid to bother to really understand their decisions and reason behind them.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by Sophisticate »

LH, do you mean both camps are passive literalists? Truth be told I have a limited conception of what atheism really is outside of an elective I took in undergraduate on theology. From what I read its not a belief system but the lack of belief in "god(s)." Although they claim to be a pluralistic group and do not agree. I don't consider them the type to believe in noncorporeal phenomenon, with the exception of those that endorse the notion of intelligent design/a higher power. I don't know where that puts them - in the league of agnostics or more inclined to monotheism. Aside from the internet I haven't met an open Somali "atheist" in real life. The only one I knew in real life was an ex-Muslim classmate of mine, who wasn't Somali. She was very liberal with regard to sexuality and drank often. I never got a chance to ask her why? She just mentioned she didn't want to feel guilty for acting freely and that she didn't believe in scriptures that did not have much relevance to her life. Ironically, she didn't eat pork. :lol:

For myself I am in ideological agreement with Islam, but I have a way to go before I consider myself a wonderful example. I recommend you lot read the following short article " TOWARDS THE CONCEPTUAL DEFINITION OF ISLAMIC CRITICAL THINKING." I have the link below. :clap:

http://www.academia.edu/4692852/TOWARDS ... L_THINKING
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by GAMES »

LiquidHYDROGEN wrote:I've come to the conclusion most somalis, despite the myth about our fierce individualism, are in fact followers and sheep rather than leaders and trailblazers. Just look at all the morons on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc. and their sheep like mentality in following other trends and fashions e.g. the latest somali obsession with Shisha, crying about Palestine when their own tuulo is burning, crying about civil rights when most Somalis probably haven't experienced much racism in comparison to AAs, crying about FGM just because they saw another airhead xaliimo do the same, insult Islam just because they have a bad experience and their daddy didn't love them enough, running of to Syria and ISIS because they are horny, stupid and they saw other people doing the same etc.

That's why I believe that the Somali athiest and the Somali Salafi/khawarij etc have many things in common. For one, they do not believe what they do due to any use of logic or cognitive reflection. They are who they are because they are angry but too stupid to bother to really understand their decisions and reason behind them.
I couldn't have said any better. And probably in couple of yrs, there would be a new cause or a new trend that everyone flocks to and champions for it.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by ciddhartha »

Sure, Islam promotes critical thinking :roll:

That would explain why Islam is undoubtedly Creationist but "smart" Muslims swear up and down that it isn't.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by LiquidHYDROGEN »

ciddhartha wrote:Sure, Islam promotes critical thinking :roll:

That would explain why Islam is undoubtedly Creationist but "smart" Muslims swear up and down that it isn't.

Observe the following statement;
Islam says "Allah SWT/God created the universe in 6 days".

How can you possibly assert that Islam doesn't promote critical thinking from that basic and very small truism?

1) Do you know what or who Allah/God is? I don't. So how can you say he doesn't exist if we can't even agree on what he is?

Hint; he's not some anthropomorphic old white guy in the clouds.


2) Do you know what the word "created" means in the context of that statement? I don't . That statement doesn't mention that Allah/God actively creating the universe nor how he achieved it. It merely asserts that he created the universe or is the reason behind the universe's existence as opposed to non-existence (I say "he", but of course Allah transcends gender). That makes as much, if not more sense, than current scientific supposition which says that the universe is a product of chance and is actually part of a Multiverse.

3) Do you know what 6 days means in the context of that statement? I don't. It could mean 144 hrs or 13 billion years. I mean a day being 24 hrs is a geocentric pretension.

So where is Islam in contradiction to scientific fact? :?
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by Phinks »

@LH

Holy fuck you just destroyed all the atheistic cunts on this forum. :lol:

The worst part is you have these f-king imbeciles proclaiming "I support science" blah blah blah and state that there is no God. But what the f-king idiots don't realise is there is (currently) no scientifically verifiable evidence to support either side of the God question, both theism and atheism have to be called
beliefs. Just as theism is a belief that there is a God, atheism is the belief that there isn't. Atheism, therefore, is not immune to the criticisms that other belief systems might draw. This is why I don't take the dumb asses seriously, "Atheism is supported by science" my ass.

Science can't even address the
issue, let alone reach any conclusion. :lol:
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by ciddhartha »

By Creationist I meant anti-Evolution, my bad. Man was made "by hand" from "clay," "dust," and "the earth" as I stated earlier.

That is where Islam is in contradiction with scientific fact. Now, will you argue that I don't really know what was meant by "created with my own hands" or "from clay/dust/the earth," :roll:

Let's not forget the story of Adam is believed to be true in Islam.
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