its going down in facebook

[Kareem99]

hablaha zoomalia are loose *&%&* - italian controlled primates

Isla yaab!


Kareem, The voice of reason, MashaAllah.

Thank you princess143

[BlueBlood]

zumaale im just teasing you bro..i know you one of the realest guy on snet walahi.

keep doing ya thang.

tonight i trolled on so many threads marka ima say night now

[zumaale]

Zumaale,

Saying things like "Somali ethnicity" is a fabricated concept gives the impression that you're distancing yourself from non-Dirs. We intermarried and lived with amongst each other for centuries, to the point that we became virtually indistinguishable from one another. We share virtually identical genes (notwithstanding our "isir"), speak the same language, have the same religion, and share a beautiful culture. Why would you feel the need to continually emphasize that we don't share the same paternal ancestry? Isn't that something that is etched in our oral history to begin with?

Anyways, I know you're not a hater, waana ogahay in aanan dulmi doonaynin. I engage with you because, even in our differences, you are one of the few who keeps it civil.

Take care bro

My interest in ancestral DNA has nothing to do with the chaos that exists among Somalis. The entire fabric if our identity is built on Isir. I just wanted to ascertain I do not subscribe to a manufactured lineage hence my interest in paternal y-dna.

My views might come across as relatively extreme but looking at them from a purely objective stance, they are not illogical. Language, status, culture, autosomnal can change but the blood that a Son inherits from his Father stands the test of time. After my Muslim identity, that is who I am all the way to Adan RAC.

[zumaale]

zumaale im just teasing you bro..i know you one of the realest guy on snet walahi.

keep doing ya thang.

tonight i trolled on so many threads marka ima say night now

Thanks bro. No offense taken whatsoever.

[Kareem99]

Zumaale,

Saying things like "Somali ethnicity" is a fabricated concept gives the impression that you're distancing yourself from non-Dirs. We intermarried and lived with amongst each other for centuries, to the point that we became virtually indistinguishable from one another. We share virtually identical genes (notwithstanding our "isir"), speak the same language, have the same religion, and share a beautiful culture. Why would you feel the need to continually emphasize that we don't share the same paternal ancestry? Isn't that something that is etched in our oral history to begin with?

Anyways, I know you're not a hater, waana ogahay in aanan dulmi doonaynin. I engage with you because, even in our differences, you are one of the few who keeps it civil.

Take care bro

My interest in ancestral DNA has nothing to do with the chaos that exists among Somalis. The entire fabric if our identity is built on Isir. I just wanted to ascertain I do not subscribe to a manufactured lineage hence my interest in paternal y-dna.

My views might come across as relatively extreme but looking at them from a purely objective stance, they are not illogical. Language, status, culture, autosomnal can change but the blood that a Son inherits from his Father stands the test of time. After my Muslim identity, that is who I am all the way to Adan RAC.

It is extreme but it is your opinion and you're entitled to it. Nothing objective about it, but it is your right to be subjective, because I am too, and so is virtually everyone. For me, my 1st maternal cousin who happens to be Hawiye or Darood, speaks our language, and practices our customs is infinitely closer to me than my 16th paternal cousin who shares my y-dna, and who finds himself deep in Mali or Mauritania. I am what my father is, but Hooyaday iyo dadkeeda ma inkiri karo. I'm not concerned about what my 15th grandson will be or what he'll look like. I'm concerned with the here and now, I am the product of my father and my mother, and my mother's people are every bit as important to me as my father's. Isir raaca iyo taariikhda in la baaro is something that I am all for, but that alone doesn't define who or what I am. In my mind. there is much, much more to one's identity that just one's y-dna.

[zumaale]

This has nothing to do with distancing oneself from family that don't share an Isir with you. It goes without saying that a close family relative from a different clan is your kin in contrast to your 16th clan cousin.

It is solely to do with lineage and is no different than the Cadaans in North America that try to trace their roots by looking at Church Records and even resorting to DNA Ancestry tests to determine how closely men that live in the same locality and have the same surname are related.

Like it or not; culture, language, ethnic identity is susceptible to change but Isir can be traced through blood. Hence, why I objectively stated it can stand the test of time and the Somali clan system to a large extent illustrates this. The maternal blood ties of your 16th ancestor or that of his nephews and nieces from another clan have no relevance today. However, his brothers' offspring.......share a fate with you today.

[Kareem99]

This has nothing to do with distancing oneself from family that don't share an Isir with you. It goes without saying that a close family relative from a different clan is your kin in contrast to your 16th clan cousin.

It is solely to do with lineage and is no different than the Cadaans in North America that try to trace their roots by looking at Church Records and even resorting to DNA Ancestry tests to determine how closely men that live in the same locality and have the same surname are related.

Like it or not; culture, language, ethnic identity is susceptible to change but Isir can be traced through blood. Hence, why I objectively stated it can stand the test of time and the Somali clan system to a large extent illustrates this. The maternal blood ties of your 16th ancestor or that of his nephews and nieces from another clan have no relevance today. However, his brothers' offspring.......share a fate with you today.

And the reason why it's relevant and share a fate with me today? Because they're Somali. Which is exactly the reason why most Dir men deep in the miyi, and from every corner of Somali-inhabited lands couldn't care less about some T-carrying Mauritanian, Egyptian, or Iraqi. While it goes without saying that these are factors that are continuously transient, we can't deny the relevance of language and culture.

[zumaale]

I was talking about blood and Isir in the Horn of African context. They share a fate with you because you have the same recent and traceable Isir not simply because you speak or look Somali etc. I identify more with an Oromo speaking Gurgura or Barsuug than I do with a Somali speaking person from another clan.

Let's not lose focus of the argument, I have not once claimed relations with Arabs or North Africans.

[Kareem99]

The reason why I brought North Africans and Arabs into this is because you mentioned your lineage from you all the way up to Adam, I did not deviate. Only now did you clarify that you're talking about the Horn of Africa context. With regards to the Barsug and Gurgura angle, it was never an argument to begin with as our oral traditions state they are kin. I don't think we are in disagreement there. Nonetheless, many of them are bi-lingual.

[zumaale]

The post where I made an analogy between Cadaans of the same locality and myself illustrated that I was referring to Isir in the Somali context. Adan RAC was a reference to how descent is patriarchal in our culture and Deen.

If we go by your statement that the Somali identity is tied to culture and Language, then Oromo speaking Gurguras are not Somali anymore because Somali is not an Isir but to me they are blood.

[Kareem99]

Zumaale,

Where did I say language alone was a factor? I'm not trying to say an Englishman will become an ethnic Somali the minute he speaks our language fluently. I'm not saying my future children from a Somali woman will automatically stop being Somali the minute they can't speak the language. I'll quote what I said earlier. I said, "In my mind. there is much, much more to one's identity that just one's y-dna." I included language as one of several important identifiers of ethnicity. Genetic and phenotypical traits are also included, as is a shared culture.

If blood was the sole defining standard of who is who, then the Prophet SAW along with other Cadani Arabs wouldn't have called themselves Arabs (as they knew very well they didn't share an Isir with the Qahtani Arabs). But after being in their midst for centuries, they identified with each other.

At the end of the day, the question of what is an ethnic group can never be answered objectively, and is ultimately decided by the overall consensus of the said ethnic group. For us Somalis, we generally agree on who is Somali and who isn't, and that includes Dir, Daarood, Hawiye, Isaaq, etc... even though we're fully aware we don't all the same isir. The matter isn't black or white, but rather shades of grey.

I'll end my piece here. Let's simply agree to disagree.

[zumaale]

speak the same language, have the same religion, and share a beautiful culture.

You placed emphasis on the fact we shared the above things with other Somalis and I took it as meaning that your criteria for being a Somali included them.

I understand where you are coming from now. For you, Somali ethnic identity is also but not solely tied to things like language, culture and religion but Dirs who do not speak Somali or have a foreign culture are still your kin because they share an Isir with you. What of other Oromos that are of Somali origin but not necessarily Dir? As you no longer share a language and culture with them would you consider them kin like the Barsuug and Gurgura?

[26June1960]

For us Somalis, we generally agree on who is Somali and who isn't, and that includes Dir, Daarood, Hawiye, Isaaq, etc... even though we're fully aware we don't all the same isir. The matter isn't black or white, but rather shades of grey.

If we don't share the same Isir than that means we don't share the same roots. Whose Isir is of Somali origin? That's the one million dollar question.

[FarhanYare]

uff

[TheblueNwhite]

Bal ka sheekey.