Slavery & our Reformation imperative: "I lower my head in shame"

[Hyperactive]

We are onion if you want to know.lol

[Grant]

“The onus is on us as a community to really put forward a different face for our religion, for our community, and for our Lord, and for our Prophet, peace be upon him, because it's really unacceptable that a religion with all of this beauty should be painted with such ugly strokes. So we're really here trying to paint a beautiful picture of our faith in action.”
― Hamza Yusuf

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes ... suf?page=2

[jalaaludin5]

Onion people
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[gegiroor]

But it is not only Leftist. Didn't you see Bareento's comment?

Here is what I see: This is a site frequented mostly by Somali Muslims, and the goal of Islamophobes is to create doubts to the point where we're comditoned to accept these persistent attacks against Islam. These Islamophobes have their own sites where they do it daily. My question is why are we accepting these endless attacks against Islam in our midst?

There is really no debate here. If they need one, they can approach it with learned Islamic scholars. But all they do is to drop few Islomophobe talking points and then took off.

Again persistent attacks against Islam takes one outside of Islam's fold. No question about it. What they are doing is sedition and creating fitnah while claiming as Muslims. I won't be fooled.

[jalaaludin5]

But it is not only Leftist. Didn't you see Bareento's comment?

Here is what I see: This is a site frequented mostly by Somali Muslims, and the goal of Islamophobes is to create doubts to the point where we're comditoned to accept these persistent attacks against Islam. These Islamophobes have their own sites where they do it daily. My question is why are we accepting these endless attacks against Islam in our midst?

There is really no debate here. If they need one, they can approach it with learned Islamic scholars. But all they do is to drop few Islomophobe talking points and then took off.

Again persistent attacks against Islam takes one outside of Islam's fold. No question about it. What they are doing is sedition and creating fitnah while claiming as Muslims. I won't be fooled.

Bareento warkiisu wuu cadyay oo muslim ba maaha.
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[gegiroor]

“The onus is on us as a community to really put forward a different face for our religion, for our community, and for our Lord, and for our Prophet, peace be upon him, because it's really unacceptable that a religion with all of this beauty should be painted with such ugly strokes. So we're really here trying to paint a beautiful picture of our faith in action.”
― Hamza Yusuf

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes ... suf?page=2

First, over 50% of Americans don't believe in the official story of 9/11. These are physicists, control demolition experts, former intelligence officials, and ordinary people.

Now, since you're a non-Muslim, why are you choosing who our religious leaders should be?

I don't know about that fella, but there is a big question on any of the so-called religious leaders who try to justify conspiracies and advocate Muslims to put their head in the sand while even overwhelming majority of Americans don't believe the official story of 9/11.

People who believe in the official story of 9/11 would also try to justify the illegal war against Iraq, the killing, maiming, and abuse against millions of Iraqis, in addition to tens of thousands of American servicemen and women who were killed and over 100 thousand who are wounded.

Let me tell you something: 9/11 was a fraud, and all of the wars that followed it were also based on fraud, including the killing.of over 40 thousand Somalis.

Give it up Grant, you can make Muslims accept something they have no.part of.

[gegiroor]

But it is not only Leftist. Didn't you see Bareento's comment?

Here is what I see: This is a site frequented mostly by Somali Muslims, and the goal of Islamophobes is to create doubts to the point where we're comditoned to accept these persistent attacks against Islam. These Islamophobes have their own sites where they do it daily. My question is why are we accepting these endless attacks against Islam in our midst?

There is really no debate here. If they need one, they can approach it with learned Islamic scholars. But all they do is to drop few Islomophobe talking points and then took off.

Again persistent attacks against Islam takes one outside of Islam's fold. No question about it. What they are doing is sedition and creating fitnah while claiming as Muslims. I won't be fooled.

Bareento warkiisu wuu cadyay oo muslim ba maaha.
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So why is he allowed to make some of the statements that he is making in this forum?

[gegiroor]

In 1972, the Parliament of Pakistan voted that Ahmadis aka Qadyanis are not Muslims. This vote happened even though Ahmadis claim they followed Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and their new false prophet called Ahmed.

Now, if Ahmadis can be considered to be non-Muslims, what makes this Leftist and other like him to be Muslims?

I could careless what the religious beliefs of these Islamophobes are. I just don't want us (Muslims) to be facilitating their attacks on our faith and our beloved Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

[gegiroor]

Duplicate.

[bareento]

Does Hamza Yusuf have potential as an Islamic Martin Luther?

https://sandala.org/

One of his things is showing how Daesh is not Islamic.

"Yusuf has taken a stance against religious justifications for terrorist attacks.[32] He described the 9/11 attacks as "an act of 'mass murder, pure and simple'". Condemning the attacks, he has also stated "Islam was hijacked ... on that plane as an innocent victim".[14]


Jordan's Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre currently places him 36th on its list of the top 500 most influential Muslims in the world.[33] The magazine Egypt Today described him as a kind of theological rock star, "the Elvis Presley of western Muslims."[34] In its 2016 edition Yusuf is described "as one of the foremost authorities on Islam outside of the Muslim world" by The 500 Most Influential Muslims, edited by John Esposito and Ibrahim Kalin.[35]"

Thoughts on reforming Islam:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/ ... ming-islam

Mujahid Grant!
Reformation means war, destruction fitna!
In Europe it brought the war of religion ( 30 years of war where 30% of germanys population was wiped out)!
Reformation equates to "going back to the roots". In islam we already have one itw called WAHHABISM!

mujahids gerigoor and jalaaluddin , I do remember there is a hadis that goes approximately like this ...dont call a man murtad, either u or that person is one.I for sure know I am not one...and subxaana wa tacaalaa forbids I dont call u one.

I am a muslim...although there r a lot of things that shock, thats hard for me to see them as just in Islam!
I am profoundly against SLAVERY, I am against raping women, I am against conquering people in the name of Subxaana wa Tacaalaa
I have a very negative opinion of the early muslim leaders...bt Have I said that One is not One? did I question the Prophethood of our Prophet?

Sorry I am using the little brain that the almighty Subxaana wa tacaalaa gave me to approach him! If the Subxaana wa Tacaalaa decides to throw me into naara jahannam because of these questions Wallaahi I will enter the naar jahannam happily and still glorifying his name

B.

[Leftist]

Halyeey Bareento,

I salute you my Oromo brother; if there is one thing that is missing from East Africa that would have brought about prosperity & peace, it is Reason & Rationality, so I applaud you for placing more trust in your God-given brain, and applying the faculties of thought & free-thinking, rather than blindly following the prejudiced "religious decrees" that came from misguided men(ie, clerics, ulema) who grew up in and were influenced by misogyny, racism, & tyranny. They took that ignorance & prejudice and codified it into our beloved faith and called it Sharia, when it actually has very little to do with Islam.

Anyway, I will answer your question:

You say:

But had it ever occuedr to u that Islam cannot be reformed...its too rigid it will break.
christians when faced with acute contradictions...have humanity to fell on...as their religion, at least its basic tenets make no distinction
between human beings.
Judaism has the ethnicity card...YAHWE , after a whole lot of propagaanda for thousand of years downsized his ambition
to the hebrews...ie defending ISRAEL as much as he can.
THE SAME IS TRUE FOR OTHER RELIGIONS...ethnicity like in hinduism, shinto etc or humanity like in buddhism

But wat can Islam fell on? humanity? nope!!! as it make clear distinction between believers and none
believers who r destined to be killed or to pay jizya.

and

So my brother, it has no meaning to reform Islam...because in order for Islam to continue it shoud not change or questionned

No, brother. That is the weak & limited understanding of the early Muslims. And I do not blame them. They lived in a cruel, harsh, and barbaric era, so it is no surprise that they incorporated those aspects into Islam.

I'll tell you what Islam truly is: Islam is a message of mercy & moderation brought forth from the Almighty who sent our beloved Messenger,(al-mabcoothi raxmatin lil caalimeen) to all of mankind.

So Islam itself, as a faith of monotheism(towheed), as a message of mercy, is already perfect and does not need reform.

What needs reforming is (some of) the dogma, (some of) the rituals, & (some of) the Orthodoxy.

What needs reforming is some aspects of the woefully flawed & outdated interpretation, be it the "main-stream" interpretation, or the Salafist/literalist/Wahhabi interpretation.

What needs reforming is the 7th/8th/9th century Ay-rab/Pur-shan/Tur-kick dhaqan/culture being forcibly shoved into a global religion of 2 billion faithful.

The essence of Islam is a) Towheed/Monotheism and b) a message of mercy unto mankind. Islam is greater than Abu Bakr or Umar or Uthman or Ali. Islam existed before they did, existed long after they were gone, and will exist when the first human meets the first Martian in this great universe that all share, humans & extraterrestrials alike. When that happens, we will need to come up with a new fiqh that will help us practice our faith in space colonies and on Mars. The literal/salafist dogma & interpretation has no answers for this upcoming scenario; instead, it is rigid, archaic, and regressive; Hence, the urgent need for a Reformation that is progressive, pragmatic, & solution-based.

Here's an example: Under the Reformation, the laws laws regarding marriage & divorce will be reformed. The bool-shid tyranny of "I divorce thee, i divorce thee, i divorce thee" will end, and men and women will be equal and have the same right to seek a divorce. All divorce cases will go to a Family Court and will be heard in front of a Family Judge, like our very own Qaadi Hyperactive Al-Soofi Al-Soomali Al-Kanadi; all the judges will be receive training in marriage counseling, adolescent psychology, family dynamics, human sexuality, cross-cultural and all psycho-socio areas that impact families. The goal is to keep families together, but in situations where the husband is abusive or an addict, divorce will be granted swiftly, after a thorough investigation is done. Similarly, polygamy will be banned, except for specific cases where it is in the public good(ie, widows, divorcees, etc).

I hope this explains the Reformation more clearly! We are merely fixing the mistakes of the early generation of Muslims. We are reclaiming the message of mercy & moderation that was unfortunately mishandled, misinterpreted, and misunderstood by the Muslims living in the 7th & 8th centuries. Let me clarify one thing: We are not "better" than them, it's just that we have the benefit of hindsight and the benefit of progressively evolving human morality.

Off-topic: I salute you and I salute the Oromo people, we are the one and the same; almost every Oromo I have met has been very friendly; I went by the Mcdonalds drive-thru, and the Oromo girl at the window asked me in a adorable-accent and a friendly smile: "aarrr yoooo sooomaaaali?", and when I said yes, she gave me the food for free.

[AirBitaale]

^^ What about the inheritance? Will that need to be reformed as well?

[Leftist]

^^ Yes, it will be absolutely reformed. The days where women & girls were cheated out of their equitable share by men who were supposed to "take care of them" are over. Equal division & distribution of inheritance, and in some cases, the vast majority of the inheritance will be given to women, as men have more avenues to seek a livelihood. At the end of the day, a Family Court will decide the exact division, after taking into consideration various family & economic factors, but the good old days where men received the bulk of the inheritance are long gone.

[NoAngst]

Besides, every reasonable American knows that 9/11 was an inside job, the wars against Iraq and Afghanistan were unjustified, and DAESH is a front for Saudi, Turkish, and Qatari intelligence, and those countries are front for the Establishment that runs the West. And our faith can't be attributed to these conspiracies, and anyone who runs with the bogus 'reformation'.who claims to be Muslim is just lunatic who has no understanding in Islam. You ain't fooling us, people.

That's not even remotely true - most American's don't believe 9/11 was an inside job. But even if they did, so what? The truth and what most people believe are two different things.

[AirBitaale]

So, while God explicitly allocated to women/girls a specific amount, you want us to defy that and take your commands?