What is the proper way for a man

Daily chitchat.

Moderators: Moderators, Junior Moderators

Forum rules
This General Forum is for general discussions from daily chitchat to more serious discussions among Somalinet Forums members. Please do not use it as your Personal Message center (PM). If you want to contact a particular person or a group of people, please use the PM feature. If you want to contact the moderators, pls PM them. If you insist leaving a public message for the mods or other members, it will be deleted.
User avatar
Hyperactive
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 34540
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:36 am
Location: "Some people are so poor, all they have is money."

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by Hyperactive »

i dont think there is islamic country, they are muslim countries. they do not claim either politically, maybe to get some intrest with specifics.

their laws not islamic. specially rights of muslims. they are more nationalists.
User avatar
Hyperactive
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 34540
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:36 am
Location: "Some people are so poor, all they have is money."

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by Hyperactive »

dont give chance the Liftist and likes of him and say this is islam for you.lol
User avatar
gegiroor
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6445
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by gegiroor »

In this Western society that we live in, people have sex outside of wedlock, yet you would've no one voicing issues or concerns. Ironically, when you have a Muslim man marrying a second wife, or so, and up to four, hell breaks loose to some, and you have people jumping up and down. They denounce it, attack the men who take several wives, accusing them of doing it for "itch", and claiming a bogus statistics, such as "99.99" or "99%". Some would claim it it is all about laandheere / laangaab concept in Somali society. And some would even go as far as coming up their own interpretation of the verses in the Noble Qur'an in order to justify their already preconceived ideas about polygamy in Islam. Yet even worse, they would even go and say "it is women's right" to deny their husbands from marrying other wives as if they can overrule millions of Muslim scholars.

But let us look at the benefits of polygamy in Islam, in particular to the Somali society in the diaspora and back home:

Today in the diaspora, to my knowledge, you have more Somali women than Somali men. In school graduations, you have more Somali women graduating from colleges and universities than Somali men - I would say the rate ofcomparison is 2:1. In the prisons, you have more Somali men than Somali women.

In Somali inhabited regions in the Horn and Eastern Africa, you have more Somali men dying in wars than Somali women. This happens because nearly all of the combatants are men. That also means, you would have more Somali women than Somali men back home.

The question is who is going to marry all of these women? Truth is, polygamy is a solution to our problem due to the situation we're in. If some cite the Battle of Uhud, we're in our predicament today. As a society, we have our own struggles to deal with our own issues, and some gender courses, learned from western universities, and "women is free to choose for her own body", learned from Western newspapers, is not gonna solve the problem we as a community face.

I and many other Muslims are presenting this solution to our own unique situation that Alhamdulillah Allah has already given us. What is your solution people?

Second, the 99.99% statistics, cited by some, is bogus. Many Somali men marry women whose deceased male relatives were married to. They do it in order to take care of the orphaned children and the widow. Many marry due to their wealth and need help from many hands. And many men marry several wives because their first wives didn't bear children for them, and they take more wives in order to have more children. The reasons are many, and for someone to cite 99.99% or 99% statics is just bogus story that has no facts.

Third, some claim men need their wives' permissions in order to marry another women. That is bs. Men are required to be truthful to their wives, so he needs to tell her, and as long as he can fulfill his responsibilities as a head of the family, he can marry another wive without her permission. As for divorce, a husband taking another wife is not grounds for divorce. If he wasn't truthful to her, wasn't supportive, and was not good to her, and he doesn't change or improve in any of those issues, then those are grounds of divorce; however, husband marrying another wife - while he was fulfilling his responsibilities towards his wive - can't be a ground for divorce.

Fourth, some have used the laandheere / laangaab argument in order to dismiss Somali Muslim men marrying Muslim women. In this authentic hadith, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) encouraged Muslim men to marry fertile, pious Muslim women, so they can have more Muslim children: "Abu Dawood (2050) narrated that Ma’qil ibn Yasaar said: A man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, “I have found a woman who is of good lineage and is beautiful, but she does not children. Should I marry her?” He said, “No.” Then he came again with the same question and he told him not to marry her. Then he came a third time with the same question and he said: “Marry those who are loving and fertile, for I will be proud of your great numbers before the other nations.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 1784." Now, if the Prophet (pbbuh) encouraged and blessed it, what is wrong if Somalis pursue it?

To conclude it, I and many other Muslim men who are willing to fulfill this important responsibilities are not doing it for lust nor any other reason. And we're not gonna stop 'cause some girls have taken some gender studies in some western universities or read some western newspapers about some bogus westerv feminism, or because some Somali guys are succumbing to the western pressure.

Btw, don't take my harsh words to heart. I am just messing with you bros and sisters. Particularly Cherine, BV, Waayeel, & Machiavelli. :win:
Last edited by gegiroor on Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
AirBitaale
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 813
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:37 pm

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by AirBitaale »

Ok. I am talking about linguistically but you, as Judge Hyper, are talking talking about the laws. I see.
User avatar
CigaalSHiiDaaDCFC
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 9428
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by CigaalSHiiDaaDCFC »

I am not against polygamy allah made it halal and men don't have to marry a widow or an old unmarried women it's sunnah to marry a widow as prophet csw did but isn't the only way men can have more than one wife. The only condition Allah had mentioned in his quran is to be caadil between them nd give each wife her xaq. If a man can do that then he can marry masnaa wa sulaasa wa rubaac. But what we have to admit here is there are a few who can fulfill that condition. Look at this guy 4 wives in one house :mindblown:

Last edited by CigaalSHiiDaaDCFC on Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
zumaale
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3458
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 5:45 pm

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by zumaale »

BVSNet wrote:Islam didn't introduce polygamy or give what was happening a stamp of approval, in fact the Quran introduces rules and limits e.g. reducing numbers in polygamy from unlimited partners to 4 wives. Just because something is not branded as an outright sin in the Quran doesn't mean you should or can do it in your context e.g. taking slaves. Where rules and limits are introduced it should tell you something. Think critically and carefully about what you do in the name of Islam.

Background: polygamy is first mentioned in An-Nisa.

The context of this revelation and limitations that are introduced was following the battle of Uhud where many lives were lost, so where men might have married as many women as they'd like Allah limits it:



O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife [Hawwa (Eve)], and from them both He created many men and women and fear Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (do not cut the relations of) the wombs (kinship) . Surely, Allah is Ever an All-Watcher over you.
Give orphans their property, do not replace their good things with the bad, and do not consume their property with your own. That is a serious crime. If you fear you will not deal justly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if you fear that you cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or the captives that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that you will not do injustice (4:1-3).



So even in a context where multiple partners was common place and in a situation where the Muslims had just lost many men and as a result many became widows and many more children made agoons, Allah still warns of the limits and there is a warning in every single verse where polygamy is first mentioned here in the Quran. Allah also sets the scene by saying he created one man and one woman, not two, or three or four women.

It is your choice to marry up to 4, some scholars would argue the extra three should be women who would be destitute without - I don't speak Arabic but the argument is that the women here refers to the widows (battle of Uhud context). You have clearly been warned by Allah. Many take is lightly but as it says in these verses Allah is Ever an All-Watcher over you, your sins do not go unnoticed.

As women, it is our choice to accept it or not, it is literally a God given right.
BV

If Allah states in the Ayat that Xawa CS was created from Adam CS that does not mean it is in anyway linked to an argument that monogamy is being promoted as the natural marital state. The Tafsir of the Quran does not interpret it as such and neither do the Hadiths supporting the Ayat elaborate upon it in such a manner.

None of the main Sunni Madhabs argue that polygamy should be restricted to destitute women and they are the benchmark for all Orthodox Sunni scholars. Furthermore, warnings and directives to be fearful of Allah are ubiquitous in the Quran and not restricted to any subject matters.

The Ayat also deals with how one should treat the property of orphaned females and to not marry them if one will not act justly. Instead one is advised to marry other women who take your liking or satisfy oneself with a female slave as it is less likely that you will do injustice. 'Women' cannot be solely interpreted as widows nor has it been referenced as such in the Tafsir of the Quran.

As women, you have a choice to request a divorce if the husband decides to marry a second wife if a polygamy clause is included in the Nikah. However, this depends on whether one adheres to the Hanbali and Hanafi Madhabs. The Somalis are traditionally Shafii but with a growing number Hanbali (Salafi) Madhab followers. No polygamy clause is valid in a Nikah according to Shafii and Maliki Fiqh hence a man can proceed to marry a another wife without giving a seconds thought to the wishes of the first wife nor can she request a divorce on account of this.

Finally, under the right circumstances, non-Muslim women can be rightfully captured and used for one's sexual gratification as justified by the Quran and Sunnah. However, that is unlikely in this day and age because there is no Caliphate or righteous wars in the defense of the Deen or Umma. A lot of slaves in the Muslim World were not captured in a Xalal manner, for instance, the Arab East African Slave Trade.
BVSNet
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:46 pm

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by BVSNet »

gegiroor wrote:In this Western society that we live in, people have sex outside of wedlock, yet you would've no one voicing issues or concerns.
Deflection - we are not discussing the merits of polygamy vs. zina

gegiroor wrote:they would even go and say "it is women's right" to deny their husbands from marrying other wives as if they can overrule millions of Muslim scholars.


Yes, it is a woman's right to stipulate in the marriage contract that she is not interested in being in a polygamous marriage

gegiroor wrote:If some cite the Battle of Uhud, we're in our predicament today. As a society, we have our own struggles to deal with our own issues
Say that to all the dalinyarro men who can't find women to marry. To the young Somali guys who complain that the women they would have married have been seduced by dayuusbaro as Cherine pointed out. Your first argument is baseless because "to my knowledge" is not statistically sound methodology
gegiroor wrote:Second, the 99.99% statistics
You should therefore no better than to do the exact same thing.

The reasons you then went on to give deserve a mention:
gegiroor wrote:Many Somali men marry women whose deceased male relatives were married to. They do it in order to take care of the orphaned children and the widow.
Dumaal is not the same thing as polygamy, the fact that it might lead to polygamy is an addition to but not the central point of the dumaal discussion. Therefore again irrelevant and a deflection.
gegiroor wrote:Many marry due to their wealth and need help from many hands.
If your argument is that wealth is enough of a reason to marry 3 extra young never married female graduates, then would you say that political strength and military power is enough reason to go to take slaves? Keep in mind your central argument here is doing something because you have the resources to support your choice
gegiroor wrote:And many men marry several wives because their first wives didn't bear children for them, and they take more wives in order to have more children
gegiroor wrote:Fourth, some have used the laandheere / laangaab argument in order to dismiss Somali Muslim men marrying Muslim women. In this authentic hadith, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) encouraged Muslim men to marry fertile, pious Muslim women, so they can have more Muslim children:
I will group these two since you're basically saying the same thing. Even in your argument you know not to say that the prophet (saw) encouraged men to marry many wives in order to have more children. If the prophet (saw) didn't encourage this, why are you? If there is no verse in the Quran encouraging this, why are you? Where are you getting the confidence to make such claims?

gegiroor wrote:Third, some claim men need their wives' permissions in order to marry another women. That is bs. Men are required to be truthful to their wives, so he needs to tell her, and as long as he can fulfill his responsibilities as a head of the family, he can marry another wive without her permission.
Actually a man needs his wife's permission. Each woman when she's getting married either approves or disapproves of polygamy.
gegiroor wrote:As for divorce, a husband taking another wife is not grounds for divorce.
It is grounds for divorce when a woman exercises her right to disapprove and her husband ignores her

gegiroor wrote:To conclude it, I and many other Muslim men who are willing to fulfill this important responsibilities
Are you saying that it is a duty upon Muslim men to marry more than one wife? Think carefully before answering, winning an argument is not worth saying the first thing that comes to mind.
BVSNet
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:46 pm

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by BVSNet »

zumaale wrote:BV
I'm on my way out, will respond later
BVSNet
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:46 pm

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by BVSNet »

zumaale wrote:If Allah states in the Ayat that Xawa CS was created from Adam CS that does not mean it is in anyway linked to an argument that monogamy is being promoted as the natural marital state.
You can choose to believe that Allah started this surah with the story of Adam and Hawa, the one man and one woman a pair and a mating, as irrelevant to what is then mentioned in the second and third ayats. When you read the surah you can choose to disregard any connection and treat each ayat as unrelated to the one before or after it. How you choose to understand it and how Allah allows you to interpret it is not something that I can change. Fact of the matter is Allah did start the surah that way, no tafsiir is going to tell us why Allah does what He does, unless He specifically tells us. That is beyond any person's ability.

zumaale wrote:None of the main Sunni Madhabs argue that polygamy should be restricted to destitute women and they are the benchmark for all Orthodox Sunni scholars.
zumaale wrote:The Ayat also deals with how one should treat the property of orphaned females and to not marry them if one will not act justly. Instead one is advised to marry other women who take your liking or satisfy oneself with a female slave as it is less likely that you will do injustice. 'Women' cannot be solely interpreted as widows nor has it been referenced as such in the Tafsir of the Quran.
You are repeating yourself here. Like I said I don't speak Arabic, you will have to ask someone who does what the significance of using min al-nisa' and not min nisa'in is. You will also have to consider for yourself the significance of the timing of these ayats as regards when they were revealed.

zumaale wrote:Furthermore, warnings and directives to be fearful of Allah are ubiquitous in the Quran and not restricted to any subject matters.
Are the warnings in these three verses less meaningful as a result? Is me pointing out that Allah is warning men on the topic tedious since Allah warns us on other topics?

zumaale wrote:As women, you have a choice to request a divorce if the husband decides to marry a second wife if a polygamy clause is included in the Nikah. However, this depends on whether one adheres to the Hanbali and Hanafi Madhabs. The Somalis are traditionally Shafii but with a growing number Hanbali (Salafi) Madhab followers. No polygamy clause is valid in a Nikah according to Shafii and Maliki Fiqh hence a man can proceed to marry a another wife without giving a seconds thought to the wishes of the first wife nor can she request a divorce on account of this.
The real question is, when refusing to incorporate this clause in the contract, do you tell the bride or do you pretend to agree with the clause, get married and then marry again but refuse to divorce her? What madhab you follow is irrelevant in this case, the real question is whether you lie and misrepresent yourself in order to get yourself married. Is that also halal?
zumaale wrote:Finally, under the right circumstances, non-Muslim women can be rightfully captured and used for one's sexual gratification as justified by the Quran and Sunnah.
The words are so ugly. Please clarify and bring evidence.
User avatar
Inaayah
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3514
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:51 am

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by Inaayah »

Ya'll are going to have to break it down for the simple minds. Too much info for my brain to digest all at once

:whoa:
InaSamaale
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2524
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:00 pm
Location: Endeavour.

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by InaSamaale »

CigaalSHiiDaaDCFC wrote:I am not against polygamy allah made it halal and men don't have to marry a widow or an old unmarried women it's sunnah to marry a widow as prophet csw did but isn't the only way men can have more than one wife. The only condition Allah had mentioned in his quran is to be caadil between them nd give each wife her xaq. If a man can do that then he can marry masnaa wa sulaasa wa rubaac. But what we have to admit here is there are a few who can fulfill that condition. Look at this guy 4 wives in one house :mindblown:


Exactly, I'm yet to see a polygamous relationship where haqq is taking place. Either they marry back home and live with mainly one wife in the west & act like an ATM machine to the other back home wife. That's not justice.

In the west it's near impossible to provide for multiple wives. Mind you a woman is entitled to the same level of comfort she was raised in.

I wish conversations about polygamy focused less on how women should feel towards it, how feminism has brainwashed us etc and moreso about the conditions of justice that is ordained on them. Allah never addressed women regarding polygamy but addressed the men saying they should be just & should stick to one of they fear otherwise. However they want a free ride, if you choose polygamy, don't expect ease.
Last edited by InaSamaale on Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:57 pm, edited 6 times in total.
User avatar
Inaayah
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3514
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:51 am

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by Inaayah »

InaSamaale wrote:
CigaalSHiiDaaDCFC wrote:I am not against polygamy allah made it halal and men don't have to marry a widow or an old unmarried women it's sunnah to marry a widow as prophet csw did but isn't the only way men can have more than one wife. The only condition Allah had mentioned in his quran is to be caadil between them nd give each wife her xaq. If a man can do that then he can marry masnaa wa sulaasa wa rubaac. But what we have to admit here is there are a few who can fulfill that condition. Look at this guy 4 wives in one house :mindblown:


Exactly, I'm yet to see a polygamous relationship where haqq is taking place. Either they marry back home and live with mainly one wife in the west & act like an ATM machine to the other back home wife. That's not justice.


In the west, its near impossible. Unless both wives agree to be provided only the bare minimum. Mind you when you marry a woman, she's entitled to the same level of comfort that she was raised with.
I hope Sumu reads this highlighted part.

Gabadh ku soo kortay guri sedex dabaq ayu doonaya inu furaash dhulka u dhigo because he thinks that's acceptable diini ahaan.
zumaale
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3458
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 5:45 pm

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by zumaale »

BVSNet wrote:
Will Holla at you in the morning, I need my beauty sleep huuno. :mrgreen:
zumaale
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3458
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 5:45 pm

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by zumaale »

BVSNet wrote:
You can choose to believe that Allah started this surah with the story of Adam and Hawa, the one man and one woman a pair and a mating, as irrelevant to what is then mentioned in the second and third ayats. When you read the surah you can choose to disregard any connection and treat each ayat as unrelated to the one before or after it. How you choose to understand it and how Allah allows you to interpret it is not something that I can change. Fact of the matter is Allah did start the surah that way, no tafsiir is going to tell us why Allah does what He does, unless He specifically tells us. That is beyond any person's ability.

You are repeating yourself here. Like I said I don't speak Arabic, you will have to ask someone who does what the significance of using min al-nisa' and not min nisa'in is. You will also have to consider for yourself the significance of the timing of these ayats as regards when they were revealed.

Are the warnings in these three verses less meaningful as a result? Is me pointing out that Allah is warning men on the topic tedious since Allah warns us on other topics?

The real question is, when refusing to incorporate this clause in the contract, do you tell the bride or do you pretend to agree with the clause, get married and then marry again but refuse to divorce her? What madhab you follow is irrelevant in this case, the real question is whether you lie and misrepresent yourself in order to get yourself married. Is that also halal?

The words are so ugly. Please clarify and bring evidence.
Rebuttal to Paragraph 1

I do not choose to explain why the Ayah starts with a reference to Adam CS and Hawa, that would be foolhardy. My statement was a critique of your attempt to interpret the Ayah without having a solid foundation of the Deen. If you were to ask me to elaborate on the Ayah, I would have refrained from making an independent analysis, and referenced the Tafsir of established scholars such as Tabari and Ibn Kathir. Laymen with little understanding of the Sunnah and the setting of the Ayah cannot speculate on it unless they have comprehensively pursued Cilm. Hence, it is best to hold our tongue in matters where we are deficient. My understanding of the beginning of that Ayah is based on the Tafseer of Ibn Kathir:

﴿بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَـنِ الرَّحِيمِ ﴾

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

﴿يَـأَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُواْ رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالاً كَثِيراً وَنِسَآءً وَاتَّقُواْ اللَّهَ الَّذِى تَسَآءَلُونَ بِهِ وَالاٌّرْحَامَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيباً ﴾

(1. O mankind! Have Taqwa of your Lord, Who created you from a single person, and from him He created his mate, and from them both He created many men and women, and have Taqwa of Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and revere the wombs. Surely, Allah is always watching over you.)

Allah commands His creatures to have Taqwa of Him by worshipping Him Alone without partners. He also reminds to them of His ability, in that He created them all from a single person, Adam, peace be unto him.

﴿وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا﴾

(And from him He created his wife) Hawwa' (Eve), who was created from Adam's left rib, from his back while he was sleeping. When Adam woke up and saw Hawwa', he liked her and had affection for her, and she felt the same toward him. An authentic Hadith states,

«إِنَّ الْمَرْأَةَ خُلِقَتْ مِنْ ضِلَعٍ، وَإِنَّ أَعْوَجَ شَيْءٍ فِي الضِّلَعِ أَعْلَاهُ، فَإِنْ ذَهَبْتَ تُقِيمُهُ كَسَرْتَهُ، وَإِنِ اسْتَمْتَعْتَ بِهَا اسْتَمْتَعْتَ بِهَا وَفِيهَا عِوَج»

(Woman was created from a rib. Verily, the most curved portion of the rib is its upper part, so, if you should try to straighten it, you will break it, but if you leave it as it is, it will remain crooked.) Allah's statement,

﴿وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالاً كَثِيراً وَنِسَآءً﴾

(And from them both He created many men and women;) means, Allah created from Adam and Hawwa' many men and women and distributed them throughout the world in various shapes, characteristics, colors and languages. In the end, their gathering and return will be to Allah. Allah then said,

﴿وَاتَّقُواْ اللَّهَ الَّذِى تَسَآءَلُونَ بِهِ وَالاٌّرْحَامَ﴾

(And have Taqwa of Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights) and revere the wombs), protect yourself from Allah by your acts of obedience to Him. Allah's statement,

﴿الَّذِى تَسَآءَلُونَ بِهِ﴾

(through Whom you demand your mutual (rights)), is in reference to when some people say, "I ask you by Allah, and then by the relation of the Rahim (the womb, i.e. my relationship to you)'', according to Ibrahim, Mujahid and Al-Hasan. Ad-Dahhak said; "Fear Allah Whom you invoke when you conduct transactions and contracts.'' "And revere the womb by not cutting the relations of the womb, but keep and honor them, as Ibn `Abbas, `Ikrimah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Ad-Dahhak, Ar-Rabi`, and others have stated. Allah's statement,

﴿إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيباً﴾

(Surely, Allah is always watching over you.) means, He watches all your deeds and sees your every circumstance. In another Ayah, Allah said;

﴿وَاللَّهُ عَلَى كُلِّ شَىْءٍ شَهِيدٌ﴾

(And Allah is Witness over all things.) ﴿58:6﴾. An authentic Hadith states,

«اعْبُدِاللهَ كَأَنَّكَ تَرَاهُ، فَإِنْ لَمْ تَكُنْ تَرَاهُ،فَإِنَّهُ يَرَاك»

(Worship Allah as if you see Him, for even though you cannot see Him, He sees you.) This part of the Ayah encourages having a sense of certainty that Allah is always watching, in a complete and perfect manner. Allah mentioned that He has created mankind from a single father and a single mother, so that they feel compassion for each other and are kind to the weaker among them. In his Sahih, Muslim recorded that Jarir bin `Abdullah Al-Bajali said that a delegation from Mudar came to the Messenger of Allah , and he saw their state, wearing striped woolen clothes due to poverty. After the Zuhr prayer, the Messenger of Allah stood up and gave a speech in which he recited,

﴿يَٰـأَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُواْ رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَٰحِدَ ةٍ﴾

(O mankind! Have Taqwa of your Lord, Who created you from a single person,) until the end of the Ayah. He also recited,

﴿يٰأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ اتَّقُواْ اللَّهَ وَلْتَنظُرْ نَفْسٌ مَّا قَدَّمَتْ لِغَدٍ﴾

(O you who believe! Have Taqwa of Allah. And let every person look to what he has sent forth for the tomorrow) ﴿59:18﴾. He also encouraged them to give charity, saying,

«تَصَدَّقَ رَجُلٌ مِنْ دِينَارِهِ، مِنْ دِرْهَمِهِ، مِنْ صَاعِ بُرِّهِ، مِنْ صَاعِ تَمْرِه»


Rebuttal to Paragraph 2

I was merely dismissing your anecdotal statement that the 'women' in the Ayat refers to destitute women according to some scholars. A man is not restricted in who he can take as a second wife according to consensus of the Four Madhabs; some of the schools of thought advise against taking more than one wife but non put conditions on the state of the second wife.

Many jurists have stated that marrying more than one wife is just permissible, while some of them are of the view that it is better to have only one wife unless there is a need for polygyny, such as if spinsterhood is widespread, if there is a large number of widows and divorced women, or if the husband cannot remain chaste with only one wife, or wishes to have children [i.e. if his wife is barren]; in such cases it is better to marry more than one wife if the person believes that he is able to maintain justice between his wives.

However, Daawood Ath-Thaahiri may Allaah have mercy upon him is of the view that it is better to marry more than one wife. Al-Jassaas, from the Hanafi School of jurisprudence, said in his Tafseer (interpretation of the Quran): “With regard to the saying of Allaah (which means): {…two or three or four…}, it implies that it is permissible for a man to marry two wives if he so wishes, three if he so wishes, or four if he so wishes, and he has the choice to marry whichever number among these. He said: if he fears that he will not treat them fairly, then instead of four, he should marry three, and if he fears that he will not be just between three, then instead of three he should marry two, and if he still fears that he will not be just between two, then he should marry only one.” [End of quote]

Ash-Shirbeeni from the Shaafi’i School of jurisprudence, said in Mughni Al-Muhtaaj: “It is a Sunnah not to marry more than one wife if there is no apparent need.” [End of quote]

Moreover, Al-Maawardi, from the Shaafi’i School of jurisprudence, said: “Allaah has permitted a man to marry up to four wives, saying: {…two or three or four…}, but Allaah advised that it is desirable for man to marry only one wife, saying: {...But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one} Ibn Daawood and a group who follow the methodology of Ath-Thaahir (sticking to the apparent meaning of texts while denying the validity of analogical reasoning) are of the opinion that it is better to marry four wives if the person is able to fulfill their needs and he should not restrict himself to marrying only one wife, as the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) did not restrict himself to marrying only one. However, Ash-Shaafi’i is of the view that it is desirable to confine oneself to marrying only one although it is permissible for him to marry more than one. This is to avoid being unfair by being more inclined to some of them than others, or being unable to financially support them. The more preponderant opinion in my view is that this depends on the condition of the husband; if he is satisfied with only one, then it is more appropriate for him not to marry a second wife, and if he is not satisfied with only one wife because he has a strong desire and an excessive need to have sexual intercourse so often, then he may marry as many as will satisfy him, be it two, three or four, in order that he lower his gaze and protect his private parts from unlawful sexual intercourse.” [Al-Haawi]

Furthermore, Ibn Qudaamah may Allaah have mercy upon him from the Hanbali School of jurisprudence, said in Ash-Sharh Al-Kabeer: “It is more appropriate to marry only one wife. The author of Al-Muharrar [i.e. Abul Barakaat Al-Majd ibn Taymiyyah] said this, based on the saying of Allaah (which means) {...But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one}.” [End of quote from Ash-Sharh Al-Kabeer authored by Shams-ud-deen Ibn Qudaamah]

Finally, Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen may Allaah have mercy upon him said: “It is safer to restrict oneself to only one wife. However, if one sees that one wife is not enough for him and he cannot maintain his chastity by having only one wife, then we enjoin him to marry a second, a third, or a fourth, until he feels comfortable, lowers his gaze, and enjoys peace of mind.” [Excerpt from Ash-Sharh Al-Mumti’]


http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index ... &Id=257272

Moreover, I have a very basic grasp of Arabic but one does not need to be a fluent speaker such as Hyper, Wayeel or Mon Cherie to know that mina Nisa refers to women in general, so does the literal and Tafsir understanding of it.




﴿وَءَاتُواْ الْيَتَٰـمَى أَمْوَلَهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَبَدَّلُواْ الْخَبِيثَ بِالطَّيِّبِ وَلاَ تَأْكُلُواْ أَمْوَٰلَهُمْ إِلَى أَمْوَٰلِكُمْ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حُوباً كَبِيراً - وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِى الْيَتَٰـمَى فَانكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِّنَ النِّسَآءِ مَثْنَى وَثُلَـثَ وَرُبَاعَ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ فَوَٰحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَٰـنُكُمْ ذلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ - وَءَاتُواْ النِّسَآءَ صَدُقَـٰتِهِنَّ نِحْلَةً فَإِن طِبْنَ لَكُمْ عَن شَىْءٍ مِّنْهُ نَفْساً فَكُلُوهُ هَنِيئاً مَّرِيئاً ﴾

(2. And give unto orphans their property and do not exchange (your) bad things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by adding it) to your substance. Surely, this is a great sin.) (3. And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girlsthen marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the servants) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from Ta`ulu.) (4. And give to the women (whom you marry) their Saduqat (or dowry) Nihlah (with a good heart), but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it, and enjoy it without fear of any harm.)

The Permission to Marry Four


Allah's statement,

﴿مَثْنَى وَثُلَـثَ وَرُبَاعَ﴾

(two or three, or four), means, marry as many women as you like, other than the orphan girls, two, three or four.





Rebuttal to Paragraph 3.

I was not suggesting it is tedious or less meaningful but was merely highlighting how we are warned through out the Quran not to disobey Allay or his rulings. In this particular Ayah, we are warned more of not transgressing on the property of orphans. You appeared to link the severe warning in the latter parts of the Ayah with polygamy when in actual fact it is reserved for the rights of orphans and those that seek to marry them. In regard to polygamous marriage, one is advised to avoid it if they cannot act justly.

Protecting the Property of the Orphans.



Allah commands that the property of the orphans be surrendered to them in full when they reach the age of adolescence, and He forbids using or confiscating any part of it. So He said;

﴿وَلاَ تَتَبَدَّلُواْ الْخَبِيثَ بِالطَّيِّبِ﴾

(and do not exchange (your) bad things for (their) good ones;) Sa`id bin Al-Musayyib and Az-Zuhri commented, "Do not substitute a weak animal of yours for a fat animal (of the orphans).'' Ibrahim An-Nakha`i and Ad-Dahhak commented, "Do not give something of bad quality for something of good quality.'' As-Suddi said, "One of them (caretakers of orphans) would take a fat sheep from the orphan's property and put in its place, a weak sheep of his, saying, `A sheep for a sheep.' He would also take a good Dirham and exchange it for a fake Dirham, saying, `A Dirham for a Dirham.''' Allah's statement,

﴿وَلاَ تَأْكُلُواْ أَمْوَلَهُمْ إِلَى أَمْوَلِكُمْ﴾

(and devour not their substance to your substance.) means, do not mix them together so that you eat up both, as Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi and Sufyan bin Hassin stated. Allah said,

﴿إِنَّهُ كَانَ حُوباً كَبِيراً﴾

(Surely, this is a great sin. ), a major and substantial sin, according to Ibn `Abbas. This was also reported from Mujahid, `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Al-Hasan, Ibn Sirin, Qatadah, Muqatil bin Hayyan, Ad-Dahhak, Abu Malik, Zayd bin Aslam and Abu Sinan. The meaning above is: adding their property to your property is a grave sin and a major mistake, so avoid it.


The Prohibition of Marrying Female Orphans Without Giving a Dowry


Allah said,

﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِى الْيَتَـمَى فَانكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِّنَ النِّسَآءِ مَثْنَى﴾

(And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two) Allah commands, when one of you is the caretaker of a female orphan and he fears that he might not give her a dowry that is suitable for women of her status, he should marry other women, who are plenty as Allah has not restricted him. Al-Bukhari recorded that `A'ishah said, "A man was taking care of a female orphan and he married her, although he did not desire to marry her. That girl's money was mixed with his, and he was keeping her portion from her. Afterwards, this Ayah was revealed about his case;

﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ﴾

(If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly)'' Al-Bukhari recorded that `Urwah bin Az-Zubayr said that he asked `A'ishah about the meaning of the statement of Allah,

﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِى الْيَتَـمَى﴾

(If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls.) She said, "O my nephew! This is about the orphan girl who lives with her guardian and shares his property. Her wealth and beauty may tempt him to marry her without giving her an adequate dowry which might have been given by another suitor. So, such guardians were forbidden to marry such orphan girls unless they treated them justly and gave them the most suitable dowry; otherwise they were ordered to marry woman besides them.'' `A'ishah further said, "After that verse, the people again asked the Messenger of Allah (about marriage with orphan girls), so Allah revealed the Ayah,

﴿وَيَسْتَفْتُونَكَ فِى النِّسَآءِ﴾

(They ask your instruction concerning the women..) ﴿4:127﴾.'' She said, "Allah's statement in this Ayah,

﴿وَتَرْغَبُونَ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ﴾

(yet whom you desire to marry) ﴿4:127﴾ refers to the guardian who does not desire to marry an orphan girl under his supervision because she is neither wealthy nor beautiful. The guardians were forbidden to marry their orphan girls possessing property and beauty without being just to them, as they generally refrain from marrying them (when they are neither beautiful nor wealthy).''


Rebuttal to Paragraph 4

Irrelevant to the point I was making, my aim was to highlight how erroneous your statement that a woman has a right to accept it or not when that is not the case. Her ability to accept it or not depends on the Madhab she and her husband follow.

Answer to Paragraph 5

Read the Ayah being discussed again, what do you think 'your right hand possesses' in this Ayah and the following one from Al Muminoon refers to?

﴿وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِفُرُوجِهِمْ حَـفِظُونَ - إِلاَّ عَلَى أَزْوَجِهِمْ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـنُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ - فَمَنِ ابْتَغَى وَرَآءَ ذلِكَ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْعَادُونَ ﴾

(And those who guard their private parts. Except from their wives and their right hand possessions, for then, they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors.) means, those who protect their private parts from unlawful actions and do not do that which Allah has forbidden; fornication and homosexuality, and do not approach anyone except the wives whom Allah has made permissible for them or their right hand possessions from the captives. One who seeks what Allah has made permissible for him is not to be blamed and there is no sin on him. Allah says:

﴿فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَفَمَنِ ابْتَغَى وَرَآءَ ذلِكَ﴾

(they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that) meaning, other than a wife or slave girl,

﴿فَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْعَادُونَ﴾

(then those are the transgressors.) meaning , aggressors.
User avatar
Siciid85
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 21342
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Somaliland

Re: What is the proper way for a man

Post by Siciid85 »

Money. If you got enough money and able to do justice between them, then you got nothing to worry about.

Marrying multiple women is a solution to a problem. Allah made it permissible, period. No man made law or jealous female baa loo joojinayn.
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General - General Discussions”