Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

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JSL3000
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by JSL3000 »

luis1 wrote:The Ethiopia-Somalia War of 1977 Revisited
Author(s): Gebru Tareke

http://nebula.wsimg.com/dd49268a301ff83 ... oworigin=1

You should read the article, it is very interesting. :mrgreen:

The dramatic and massive intervention by socialist countries
enabled the Ethiopians to crush and repel the invading army, which never recovered
fully from its stunning defeat

Assessing the Outcome

Was Ethiopian victory or Somali defeat primarily due to Soviet and Cuban intervention,
or did other intrinsic factors influence the eventual outcome of the war?

Without doubt external interference decisively shifted the balance of forces on the
battlefield during the last two months of the conflict
. While incompetent leadership
contributed to their failure, eventually the Somalis were crushed by the sheer
weight of numbers and technology. With the arrival of 18,000 Cuban artillerymen,
tank crews, and pilots who undertook and suffered much of the dangerous
combat tasks during the counter-offensive and about 1,500 Soviet military experts
who brought with them a vast amount of armaments, the Somalis stood absolutely
no chance of success
. That Cuban-Soviet assistance was decisive in both their
defeat and expulsion is therefore incontrovertible



Cuban-Soviet assistance was decisive :mrgreen:
of course that's obvious ethiopia couldn't do it on there own, it was foreign intervention that saved them. :lol:
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by Rambie »

luis1 wrote:The Ethiopia-Somalia War of 1977 Revisited
Author(s): Gebru Tareke

http://nebula.wsimg.com/dd49268a301ff83 ... oworigin=1

You should read the article, it is very interesting. :mrgreen:

The dramatic and massive intervention by socialist countries
enabled the Ethiopians to crush and repel the invading army, which never recovered
fully from its stunning defeat

Assessing the Outcome

Was Ethiopian victory or Somali defeat primarily due to Soviet and Cuban intervention,
or did other intrinsic factors influence the eventual outcome of the war?

Without doubt external interference decisively shifted the balance of forces on the
battlefield during the last two months of the conflict
. While incompetent leadership
contributed to their failure, eventually the Somalis were crushed by the sheer
weight of numbers and technology. With the arrival of 18,000 Cuban artillerymen,
tank crews, and pilots who undertook and suffered much of the dangerous
combat tasks during the counter-offensive and about 1,500 Soviet military experts
who brought with them a vast amount of armaments, the Somalis stood absolutely
no chance of success
. That Cuban-Soviet assistance was decisive in both their
defeat and expulsion is therefore incontrovertible



Cuban-Soviet assistance was decisive :mrgreen:
Good read. :lol:
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luis1
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by luis1 »

Rambie:

Good read
Thank you, now show me your sources. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by luis1 »

What do you think about my sources,Mr Rambie?
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by Rambie »

Very interesting Mr.Lewis but maybe a bit self contradicting?
Was Ethiopian victory or Somali defeat primarily due to Soviet and Cuban intervention,
or did other intrinsic factors influence the eventual outcome of the war?
Without doubt external interference decisively shifted the balance of forces on the
battlefield during the last two months of the conflict. While incompetent leadership
contributed to their failure, eventually the Somalis were crushed by the sheer
weight of numbers and technology. With the arrival of 18,000 Cuban artillerymen,
tank crews, and pilots who undertook and suffered much of the dangerous
combat tasks during the counter-offensive and about 1,500 Soviet military experts
who brought with them a vast amount of armaments, the Somalis stood absolutely
no chance of success. That Cuban-Soviet assistance was decisive in both their
defeat and expulsion is therefore incontrovertible.90 Yet the Somalis were ultimately
checked from achieving their aim by the Ethiopians who fought them to a
deadlock for six gruelling months. By stabilizing the front on their own
, the
Ethiopians turned the situation in their favor. In essence, they won by not losing.
Resoluteness was their main asset but they did benefit from the vacillation of or
even bungling by the Somali high command.
:mrgreen:

Am all for seeking the truth & your extensive link is very juicy.
Though I was talking about the prospect of the book Wing Over Ogaden.
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luis1
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by luis1 »

Rambie:

Very interesting Mr.Lewis but maybe a bit self contradicting?
Why do you think so?

Rambie:


Am all for seeking the truth & your extensive link is very juicy.
Though I was talking about the prospect of the book Wing Over Ogaden.
Wings over Ogaden talks about Cuban troops fighting in Ogaden War. There were two tank brigades which destroyed Somali Army at Jijiga and Harer, Mig-21 pilots who destroyed many somali tanks and artillery and advisers who trained Ethiopian army to fight against Somalia. :mrgreen:

The Cuban role was important to defeat Somalia, this is a fact but if you do not want to accept it, this is not my problem.


I sent you an article written by a somali colonel, he accepts Cubans played an important role in Ogaden.
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by Rambie »

Cuban forces in Jigjiga were a back up for Ethiopia forces already fighting there.
You're making it sound as if they fought alone or head to head when Cuban forces attacked
it from behind according to your link. During Jigjiga battle is where incompetent Barre ordered
the massive retreat. Not to mention the number of Cuban planes that were shot down.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by Siciid85 »

Why Somaliland doesn't need recognition?
Answer: Somalia.
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luis1
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by luis1 »

Somali army shot down 2 or 3 Cuban planes, this is a small number. Please be serious and read Wings over Ogaden. :mrgreen:

In an integrated ground and air resistance that for the first time involved Cuban
soldiers, the Ethiopians pinned the attackers a few kilometers from the city.

In their counter-attacks from January
23 to 27, the Eleventh Division and Cuban armored brigades regained all the
territory as far as Fedis, the first town of significance to be liberated

Without allowing the Somalis any respite, the Ethiopian-Cuban juggernaut
launched a series of short, sharp thrusts against the main Somali lines from Dire
Dawa and Harar, enveloping enemy units one after the other

On the following day at 0700 hours, the Ninth Division spearheaded by Cuban
tank and artillery shock troops outflanked and, with air support, attacked the
Somalis at Harewa from the rear. The defenders were completely taken off guard
and hastily abandoned the town "without even eating their freshly cooked
food."

On March 6, an armored column of the Third Division
and the Third Cuban Tank Brigade easily captured Degehabur, about 200 kms
south of Jijiga on March 8

However, that did not halt the Division, which, supported
by a Cuban artillery battalion, drove 150 kms to Fik on March 8.

With the arrival of 18,000 Cuban artillerymen,
tank crews, and pilots who undertook and suffered much of the dangerous
combat tasks during the counter-offensive and about 1,500 Soviet military experts
who brought with them a vast amount of armaments, the Somalis stood absolutely
no chance of success.

The Cuban troops are fighting in several places, they defeated somalis everywhere. Man I think you do not have enough information about Ogaden War, if you do not showme that your are an expert about this war I will finish this conversation at once. I think I am wasting my time with you because you do not want to accept the reality:

Somalia was defeated by Cuba, Soviet Union and Ethiopia.
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by MayDay777 »

luis1 wrote:Somali army shot down 2 or 3 Cuban planes, this is a small number. Please be serious and read Wings over Ogaden. :mrgreen:

In an integrated ground and air resistance that for the first time involved Cuban
soldiers, the Ethiopians pinned the attackers a few kilometers from the city.

In their counter-attacks from January
23 to 27, the Eleventh Division and Cuban armored brigades regained all the
territory as far as Fedis, the first town of significance to be liberated

Without allowing the Somalis any respite, the Ethiopian-Cuban juggernaut
launched a series of short, sharp thrusts against the main Somali lines from Dire
Dawa and Harar, enveloping enemy units one after the other

On the following day at 0700 hours, the Ninth Division spearheaded by Cuban
tank and artillery shock troops outflanked and, with air support, attacked the
Somalis at Harewa from the rear. The defenders were completely taken off guard
and hastily abandoned the town "without even eating their freshly cooked
food."

On March 6, an armored column of the Third Division
and the Third Cuban Tank Brigade easily captured Degehabur, about 200 kms
south of Jijiga on March 8

However, that did not halt the Division, which, supported
by a Cuban artillery battalion, drove 150 kms to Fik on March 8.

With the arrival of 18,000 Cuban artillerymen,
tank crews, and pilots who undertook and suffered much of the dangerous
combat tasks during the counter-offensive and about 1,500 Soviet military experts
who brought with them a vast amount of armaments, the Somalis stood absolutely
no chance of success.

The Cuban troops are fighting in several places, they defeated somalis everywhere. Man I think you do not have enough information about Ogaden War, if you do not showme that your are an expert about this war I will finish this conversation at once. I think I am wasting my time with you because you do not want to accept the reality:

Somalia was defeated by Cuba, Soviet Union and Ethiopia.
Focking Cuban dog shit. Are you forgetting all the others? What about Yemen and Libya? Somalis were ACE back them the ENTIRE Soviet world versus 4 million people and it took MONTHS to defeat them. Jigjiga was bombed how many times???
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by Susu000 »

luis1 wrote:Somali army shot down 2 or 3 Cuban planes, this is a small number. Please be serious and read Wings over Ogaden. :mrgreen:

In an integrated ground and air resistance that for the first time involved Cuban
soldiers, the Ethiopians pinned the attackers a few kilometers from the city.

In their counter-attacks from January
23 to 27, the Eleventh Division and Cuban armored brigades regained all the
territory as far as Fedis, the first town of significance to be liberated

Without allowing the Somalis any respite, the Ethiopian-Cuban juggernaut
launched a series of short, sharp thrusts against the main Somali lines from Dire
Dawa and Harar, enveloping enemy units one after the other

On the following day at 0700 hours, the Ninth Division spearheaded by Cuban
tank and artillery shock troops outflanked and, with air support, attacked the
Somalis at Harewa from the rear. The defenders were completely taken off guard
and hastily abandoned the town "without even eating their freshly cooked
food."

On March 6, an armored column of the Third Division
and the Third Cuban Tank Brigade easily captured Degehabur, about 200 kms
south of Jijiga on March 8

However, that did not halt the Division, which, supported
by a Cuban artillery battalion, drove 150 kms to Fik on March 8.

With the arrival of 18,000 Cuban artillerymen,
tank crews, and pilots who undertook and suffered much of the dangerous
combat tasks during the counter-offensive and about 1,500 Soviet military experts
who brought with them a vast amount of armaments, the Somalis stood absolutely
no chance of success.

The Cuban troops are fighting in several places, they defeated somalis everywhere. Man I think you do not have enough information about Ogaden War, if you do not showme that your are an expert about this war I will finish this conversation at once. I think I am wasting my time with you because you do not want to accept the reality:

Somalia was defeated by Cuba, Soviet Union and Ethiopia.

Somalia was kilometers away from addis abeba before being back stabbed by the Americans/Russians.
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by balwarama »

if it wasnt for that lingering fear of the treacherousMandheerteen coup at the back of ina Siyaad Barres head he wouldnt have ordered that hasty retreat he knew all along that something was cooking and Mogadishu was thinly manned militarily the Mandheerteen officers deliberately sabotaged the struggle history willnot treat them well Abdilahi Yusuf was a coward atleast Cirro was brave and ambitious Abdilahi yusuf abondoned everything at the peak of the operation therefore betraying his fellow kinsmen through his cowardice
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by Rambie »

luis1 wrote:Somali army shot down 2 or 3 Cuban planes, this is a small number. Please be serious and read Wings over Ogaden. :mrgreen:


The Cuban troops are fighting in several places, they defeated somalis everywhere. Man I think you do not have enough information about Ogaden War, if you do not showme that your are an expert about this war I will finish this conversation at once. I think I am wasting my time with you because you do not want to accept the reality:

Somalia was defeated by Cuba, Soviet Union and Ethiopia.
I think you need to re-read your own quote
In an integrated ground and air resistance that for the first time involved Cuban
soldiers, the Ethiopians pinned the attackers a few kilometers from the city.

In their counter-attacks from January
23 to 27, the Eleventh Division and Cuban armored brigades regained all the
territory as far as Fedis, the first town of significance to be liberated

Without allowing the Somalis any respite, the Ethiopian-Cuban juggernaut
launched a series of short, sharp thrusts against the main Somali lines from Dire
Dawa and Harar, enveloping enemy units one after the other

On the following day at 0700 hours, the Ninth Division spearheaded by Cuban
tank and artillery shock troops outflanked and, with air support, attacked the
Somalis at Harewa from the rear. The defenders were completely taken off guard
and hastily abandoned the town "without even eating their freshly cooked
food."

On March 6, an armored column of the Third Division
and the Third Cuban Tank Brigade easily captured Degehabur, about 200 kms
south of Jijiga on March 8

However, that did not halt the Division, which, supported
by a Cuban artillery battalion, drove 150 kms to Fik on March 8.

With the arrival of 18,000 Cuban artillerymen,
tank crews, and pilots who undertook and suffered much of the dangerous
combat tasks during the counter-offensive and about 1,500 Soviet military experts
who brought with them a vast amount of armaments, the Somalis stood absolutely
no chance of success.
The 11 division is an Ethiopian unit. You're claiming that
Cubans chased Somalis alone when Cuba was merely a minion
to the Soviet Union, working as a back up the the Ethiopians.
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by Rambie »

balwarama wrote:if it wasnt for that lingering fear of the treacherousMandheerteen coup at the back of ina Siyaad Barres head he wouldnt have ordered that hasty retreat he knew all along that something was cooking and Mogadishu was thinly manned militarily the Mandheerteen officers deliberately sabotaged the struggle history willnot treat them well Abdilahi Yusuf was a coward atleast Cirro was brave and ambitious Abdilahi yusuf abondoned everything at the peak of the operation therefore betraying his fellow kinsmen through his cowardice
AY came after the coup & wasn't planned prior or during the OG war.
He gathered 500 MJ's soldiers & leaders, almost all of theme where executed.
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Re: Why Somaliland Will Never Get Recognised.

Post by balwarama »

so why did the coward flee when he was supposed to march to Mogadishu with the troops he was commanding dont forget that his forces were well equiped and cameback with everything intact as was the plan but still ran away like the coward he was just when the operation to topple the regime got underway!
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