The irony!

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zumaale
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Re: The irony!

Post by zumaale »

Ben Dover wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:14 pm
zumaale wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:03 pm Lastly, one cannot ignore the Elephant in the room. The Isaaq populace mainly want nothing to do without Somalia and in my opinon their separation from Somalia should be formalised. The Harti and the Samaron should aslo be allowed to decide where their loyalties lie.
No chance mate, and you know it.

If there is any referendum it will take place in the entirety of Somaliland. Everyone will be given a vote, it will return a yes vote and we will be on our merry way.

Referenda are conducted in all of the territory in question. The only legal base for separation is the dissolving of the North-South union. Harti and Samaron are stuck with us for better or worse.
There does not need to be a legal basis, South Sudan etc. Self determination for all is the most moral approach to this issue.
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Re: The irony!

Post by Ben Dover »

zumaale wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:19 pm
There does not need to be a legal basis, South Sudan etc. Self determination for all is the most moral approach to this issue.
- Quebec
- Scotland
- Djibouti
- Eritrea
- etc...

A referendum will take place in all the territory of former British Somaliland. Why would we give up the stronger legal case for Somaliland for a weaker self-determination clause? That would be daft sxb, there is no two ways about it.

Besides, even if we follow your crazy idea and your Awdal people voted to stay, they will have no landmass connection with Somalia, they will be an exclave. They really have no choice.
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Re: The irony!

Post by zumaale »

Ben Dover wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:32 pm
zumaale wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:19 pm
There does not need to be a legal basis, South Sudan etc. Self determination for all is the most moral approach to this issue.
- Quebec
- Scotland
- Djibouti
- Eritrea
- etc...

A referendum will take place in all the territory of former British Somaliland. Why would we give up the stronger legal case for Somaliland for a weaker self-determination clause? That would be daft sxb, there is no two ways about it.

Besides, even if we follow your crazy idea and your Awdal people voted to stay, they will have no landmass connection with Somalia, they will be an exclave. They really have no choice.
You misunderstand me, my argument is that the there is a generation that do not identify with anything but Somaliland among the Isaaq clan and the reality on the ground is that there is no return to a union with other Somalis. The same sentinemt does not generally exist among the Samaroon and Harti. I do not give a toss about the legal arguments about secession because the reasoning behind my statement has more to do with facts on the ground; the Isaaq population want nothing to do with a Somaliweyn state. Hence, why I gave the South Sudan example because the civil war has left a scar that will not heal and it is best to formalise the separation. The Southern 'Government' should not even look at the legalities of it but just separate like the way the North and South Sudanese did.

The Samaroon can choose whether to be another Djibouti.
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Re: The irony!

Post by smartyt »

Ben Dover wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:14 pm
zumaale wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:03 pm Lastly, one cannot ignore the Elephant in the room. The Isaaq populace mainly want nothing to do without Somalia and in my opinon their separation from Somalia should be formalised. The Harti and the Samaron should aslo be allowed to decide where their loyalties lie.
No chance mate, and you know it.

If there is any referendum it will take place in the entirety of Somaliland. Everyone will be given a vote, it will return a yes vote and we will be on our merry way.

Referenda are conducted in all of the territory in question. The only legal base for separation is the dissolving of the North-South union. Harti and Samaron are stuck with us for better or worse.
There is going to be war just like how bosnian serbs refused to secede with the Muslims
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Re: The irony!

Post by smooth »

Xildiiid wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:23 pm
Darood didn't even give him the benefit of the doubt. 2 weeks after the selection, nicknames such as Garguurte, Culusow were created and the Daroogo vermin were protesting in Minneapolis, London, Gayroowe, Bumsaso and the Daroogo section of Kismaayo. T
I am probably the most Anti Garowe corrupt elitist and their quest for the destruction of Somalia, but this is a blatant lie, when HSM was elected Garowe was one of the very few places that held PRO HSM demonstrations and Euphoria like no other city outside of Xamar.

The reasons for the Anti HSM protests few months later is because he immediately began to dismantle their corrupt oligarchy and made life hell on earth for them particularly financially, their propaganda machine kicked in, it started with he is Anti P/land, then Anti Darood, then Anti Federalism, hence demonstrations.

They will attempt to do the same thing to Farmaajo whom they previously helped dispose using Mahiga, when he was made PM there was demonstrations against him because the propaganda machine of the elites kicked in and they got them out on to streets because the seat belonged to Mohamoud Saleeban.

Now he is made president you see Pro Farmaajo demonstrations, but Gaas has already threatened him in private that he won't last beyond 6 months. There was a big rift between him and those corrupt P/land elites which even the UN monitoring report touched on, the wounds are very deep and they and Sakiin will be the greatest enemies.

I have no idea were you pulled this Darood fantasy stuff from.

http://fpif.org/new_report_reveals_soma ... _millions/
http://www.hiiraan.com/news4/2012/July/ ... cials.aspx
Last edited by smooth on Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The irony!

Post by smooth »

sahal80 wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:54 am "like the xoolo they are" :russ:


if farmajo picks a HG pm everything can change into another cabdiqasim.
Nothing will change whatsoever, the demographics of Mogadishu has changed drastically as has the psyche of the people, 600.000 IDP's alone settled with several thousands more moving in, it's not the city of 1991-2008 anymore.

Forget Abgaal, the Hiraab population put together would be a very slim majority today if a count was done, and abgaal by itself would be a minority, people have flocked to the place in numbers that are crazy.

The whole Qabiil fabric is dead, it's all about Islamic groups that hold power, Daljir (former Ahla sheikh), Damul-Jadiid, Islah etc. They are all mixed, the PM will go with Daljir group, the most likely candidates are Fiqhe, C/Nasir, Ossoble.

If Hypothetically speaking there would have been tribal groups, there wouldn't be Amisom protecting an Abgaal president for 8 years in his own city, while Farmaajo on day one walks around with Alpha Group, it's all BS nonsense, if tribal group existed, this wouldn't be the case.

Even if hypothetically true and Abgaal tried to resist a Murursade/HG/Xawaadle PM, due to this wave of populism, the entire Somali people will turn against them and this would pretty much condemn them to the same fate as Majerteen as the most hated people, previously HG, before MX.

The AbiQasim example is wrong, he was in a Mogadishu with 10 warlords, I visited back then, it was 200x worse then the Mogadishu today, his vital mistake was to insult all the warlords particularly the two Sacad warlords, hence his government never got off the ground as a result, but he stayed in Xamar with his own militia's guarding him and his government.

Had he not been that stupid, he wouldn't be in that predicament, Hussein Ceydiid was allies with 2 other Abgaal warlord and the same with Qeybdiid that was allied with Bashir Rageh and the other Wacbudhan warlord whose name I forgot, he would have flourished easily. That's 6 of the most powerful warlords backing he would have got, if he didn't insult them public-ally.
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Re: The irony!

Post by sahal80 »

smooth wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:44 pm
sahal80 wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:54 am "like the xoolo they are" :russ:


if farmajo picks a HG pm everything can change into another cabdiqasim.
Nothing will change whatsoever, the demographics of Mogadishu has changed drastically as has the psyche of the people, 600.000 IDP's alone settled with several thousands more moving in, it's not the city of 1991-2008 anymore.

Forget Abgaal, the Hiraab population put together would be a very slim majority today if a count was done, and abgaal by itself would be a minority, people have flocked to the place in numbers that are crazy.

The whole Qabiil fabric is dead, it's all about Islamic groups that hold power, Daljir (former Ahla sheikh), Damul-Jadiid, Islah etc. They are all mixed, the PM will go with Daljir group, the most likely candidates are Fiqhe, C/Nasir, Ossoble.

If Hypothetically speaking there would have been tribal groups, there wouldn't be Amisom protecting an Abgaal president for 8 years in his own city, while Farmaajo on day one walks around with Alpha Group, it's all BS nonsense, if tribal group existed, this wouldn't be the case.

Even if hypothetically true and Abgaal tried to resist a Murursade/HG/Xawaadle PM, due to this wave of populism, the entire Somali people will turn against them and this would pretty much condemn them to the same fate as Majerteen as the most hated people, previously HG, before MX.

The AbiQasim example is wrong, he was in a Mogadishu with 10 warlords, I visited back then, it was 200x worse then the Mogadishu today, his vital mistake was to insult all the warlords particularly the two Sacad warlords, hence his government never got off the ground as a result, but he stayed in Xamar with his own militia's guarding him and his government.

Had he not been that stupid, he wouldn't be in that predicament, Hussein Ceydiid was allies with 2 other Abgaal warlord and the same with Qeybdiid that was allied with Bashir Rageh and the other Wacbudhan warlord whose name I forgot, he would have flourished easily. That's 6 of the most powerful warlords backing he would have got, if he didn't insult them public-ally.
firsty there is no way hawadle pm. MX and HG r politically closer than the rest of subclans even one of the HG pm candidates cabdisamad is half mx. even ahlussuna who was against garguurte said now they will join the SNA!

as for xamar are you kidding the IDPS r found in dharkeenley. xamar is basically abgaal, HG and murursade but the security forces r mainly abgaal due to them leading the SFG. for this reason its not working to ignore them. i have reatives in xamar jadid who only sees abgaal security. it wasnt like that before muungaab.
HG mainly have the business.
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Re: The irony!

Post by smooth »

Sahal

I am in London and live in a white neighbourhood, everyone I see is white, most places I go to are white, the whole work-place was white, in fact every work-place was white. But in the city they are a minority now.

What your aunt sees is irrelevant much like what I do in London, had it not been for stats, I would swear to you white's were majority, in fact the stats have shocked many people on both sides, one thought they were a minority (immigrants) the other majority (whites).

No such count was done in Xamar, but based on the 10 or so times I have been there, I saw a ridiculous amount of Jareer's, Raxanweyne and Somali's from other regions even S/land, this is the last 5 years I been there, which I didn't before as it was more gradual.

The Raxanweyne/jareerweyne out-breed us like no business in those camps and in the city, in Gaalkacayo alone I see this massive demographic changes happening already even the minorities out breed us, our birth rates are dropping in comparison to theirs, if a full count was done, I believe everyone would be shocked by the results.

Security are just useless anyway, the real power is the SNA and it's relatively mixed their, qabiil is pretty much dead there, there is no tribal loyalty with them whatsoever, just whoever pays them, but he will go with a Hiraab PM, this talk that Abgaal is somehow going to rebel is nonsense, it will be suicidal.

This scaremongering is what got that swine Qeybdiid to lead Galmudug then sell out to HSM like the buffoon he is, then got us corrupt Guleed instead of a better Fiqhe, Let him pick the best man for the Job, I couldn't careless if he was a Benadiri man or 0.5, Somalia has turned a new leaf.

The worst leaders are often those from your own tribes, because you cannot remove these swines and everybody blind walks into their obedience just because of tribe, and these swines feel like they don't have to do anything because everyone is already bowing down for them. It took a decade just to turn my people against Qeybdiid but some still worship him, even worse was notorious liars like Guleed.

This will not happen with Farmaajo, everyone is keeping a good close eye on him and he himself will be eager to prove himself in a city were he is a minority, there is no doubt about his nationalist credentials the man was campaigning on the lecture circuit for almost a decade, while everyone was telling him to give up because only HAG will be president due to corruption.

To hell with this HAG business, we never got any good from it only more and more blinded buffoons much like the Isaaq's up North or those Puntlanders, we couldn't even build a home during HSM reign because those hungry unpaid soldiers would come and harass you so they can feed their families, everything became impossible to, I know people that wanted to make big investments return because they asked to pay ridiculous bribes that was mind boggling just to set up.
Last edited by smooth on Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The irony!

Post by Xildiiid »

Smooth,

Nonsense.

Zumaale,

A referendum would only take place in the territory of former British Somaliland, nothing less.

Secondly, the government of Zoomalia doesn't have legal authority in SL so it's ludicrous to argue that they would have a say in a proposed partition of my country, which by the way will never happen.
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Re: The irony!

Post by TheblueNwhite »

Smooth

Fiqi aint gonna be PM, you can continue to play down Abgaal numbers in Xamar.

Gaandheri men just dont cut it. Somalia needs an administrator for a PM. A PM who can delegate responsibilities, a project manager, one who will hold a thieving minister accountable not some dude who got his start at a gaandheri and has a dark cloud shadowing him. Fuck Ala Sheikh, Al Islah, Ictisam, DJ and al hebels. We are fed up with these fake gardheeres. No mais.
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Re: The irony!

Post by Ben Dover »

zumaale wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:46 pm

You misunderstand me, my argument is that the there is a generation that do not identify with anything but Somaliland among the Isaaq clan and the reality on the ground is that there is no return to a union with other Somalis. The same sentinemt does not generally exist among the Samaroon and Harti. I do not give a toss about the legal arguments about secession because the reasoning behind my statement has more to do with facts on the ground; the Isaaq population want nothing to do with a Somaliweyn state. Hence, why I gave the South Sudan example because the civil war has left a scar that will not heal and it is best to formalise the separation. The Southern 'Government' should not even look at the legalities of it but just separate like the way the North and South Sudanese did.

The Samaroon can choose whether to be another Djibouti.
Referenda do not work this way. In the Quebec example allophones and anglophones were a firm no, but they were not given the option to keep their provinces out of the referendum. You conduct the referendum in all of the the territory, in this case Somaliland. There are no two ways about it.

Believe you me if a referendum is to take place it will not be based on sentiment, it will be based on the legal union of Somaliland and Somalia and as such it will take place on all of the territory of Somaliland.

In your example of Djibouti the Afar and Somalis had little choice in forming a nation, territory dictated their union. If it will force non Somalis to join a majority Somali state then Samaron will have no choice either, same for Harti.
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Re: The irony!

Post by Tijoux »

Harti is somaliweyn :som: stop claiming us dirty idoor bastard
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Re: The irony!

Post by Ben Dover »

Somaliweyn is dead.
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Re: The irony!

Post by gegiroor »

zumaale wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:19 pm
Ben Dover wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:14 pm
zumaale wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:03 pm Lastly, one cannot ignore the Elephant in the room. The Isaaq populace mainly want nothing to do without Somalia and in my opinon their separation from Somalia should be formalised. The Harti and the Samaron should aslo be allowed to decide where their loyalties lie.
No chance mate, and you know it.

If there is any referendum it will take place in the entirety of Somaliland. Everyone will be given a vote, it will return a yes vote and we will be on our merry way.

Referenda are conducted in all of the territory in question. The only legal base for separation is the dissolving of the North-South union. Harti and Samaron are stuck with us for better or worse.
There does not need to be a legal basis, South Sudan etc. Self determination for all is the most moral approach to this issue.


Somali government needs to give us funding for 3,000 fighters and we'll throw out this Soomaalidiid nonsense from our territories. The problem was successive TFG leaders were signing hundreds of millions of USD to SL while we were given 0 funding

If certain groups want to breakaway from Somalia, that is their prerogative; they just need to understand they will not take other Somali regions with them. But it is up to central Somali state to play part!

As for this election, congratulations to Farmaajo and Somalis in general. We should all support this government by lobbying western governments to provide more support and to get Ethiopia outside of Somalia.
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Re: The irony!

Post by Xildiiid »

^
:pac:
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