Who deleted Waachis Ram Naga thing?

[Adali]

There is a difference between claiming to be descendant from the prophets and being a coon, first of all Arab identity is fluid, its a language group, not an homogeneous ethnic group.

You're an average Cushitic horner with the average Cushitic E-V32 marker , you're no different to the vast majority of Somalis. You and a E-V32 Oromo share the same origin. I have a more believable claim to being Banu Hashim since my Haplogroup originates from the middle east and my closest cousins who share my T-Y16879 sub-clade are found in the Arabian Peninsula and some of them are Meccan Hashemites , even the Quraishi Bani Shaiba who traditionally hold the keys of the Ka'ba belong to my sub-clade. But i have caqli and sharaf and won't claim Arab or Banu Hashim since i know we are only distantly related and our common ancestors predate Arabs and Islam by thousands of years.

Ya ibn Goita Theodorus keep dreaming tho

Haplogroup T is shared by all Horn of Africans including Oromos, Afars, Habeshas etc. Why do you think that you’re closer to Arabians, than all the named above who share your haplogroup? BTW, even the Iraqw who have been living in Tanzania for at least 3000 years share your Haplogroup T.

Why therefore would you want to make it out as if Haplogroup T is a foreign lineage, when its as native to Somalis(and Horn of Africans) as E1b1b(which is also shared by North Africans and Southern Europeans)? Even Haplogroup J can be considered native to the Horn.

This theory I like it, because it doesn't remove claim to being descendants of Muhammed SCW, while at the same time it removes the arabphile elements of being descendants of Muhammed SCW, he could very well have been a horner, the Hejaz and the horn is not far from each other, clans can move back and forth repeatedly.

These T fanatics have 2 objects, disprove relations to Muhammed SCW, and dismantle the Isaac clan and make it part of Dir, I don't mind the second

They have failed to dismantle Darood doe, they only managed to disprove MJ and Warsan membership of Darood.

[Lion104]

You're an average Cushitic horner with the average Cushitic E-V32 marker , you're no different to the vast majority of Somalis. You and a E-V32 Oromo share the same origin. I have a more believable claim to being Banu Hashim since my Haplogroup originates from the middle east and my closest cousins who share my T-Y16879 sub-clade are found in the Arabian Peninsula and some of them are Meccan Hashemites , even the Quraishi Bani Shaiba who traditionally hold the keys of the Ka'ba belong to my sub-clade. But i have caqli and sharaf and won't claim Arab or Banu Hashim since i know we are only distantly related and our common ancestors predate Arabs and Islam by thousands of years.

Ya ibn Goita Theodorus keep dreaming tho

Haplogroup T is shared by all Horn of Africans including Oromos, Afars, Habeshas etc. Why do you think that you’re closer to Arabians, than all the named above who share your haplogroup? BTW, even the Iraqw who have been living in Tanzania for at least 3000 years share your Haplogroup T.

Why therefore would you want to make it out as if Haplogroup T is a foreign lineage, when its as native to Somalis(and Horn of Africans) as E1b1b(which is also shared by North Africans and Southern Europeans)? Even Haplogroup J can be considered native to the Horn.

This theory I like it, because it doesn't remove claim to being descendants of Muhammed SCW, while at the same time it removes the arabphile elements of being descendants of Muhammed SCW, he could very well have been a horner, the Hejaz and the horn is not far from each other, clans can move back and forth repeatedly.

These T fanatics have 2 objects, disprove relations to Muhammed SCW, and dismantle the Isaac clan and make it part of Dir, I don't mind the second

They have failed to dismantle Darood doe, they only managed to disprove MJ and Warsan membership of Darood.

The prophet pbuh was most likely J1 from the subclade - L859. Most of Hashemites including the Jordanian royal family have gotten this. Sorry, but Darood aren’t the descendants of the Prophet.

[Adali]

Haplogroup T is shared by all Horn of Africans including Oromos, Afars, Habeshas etc. Why do you think that you’re closer to Arabians, than all the named above who share your haplogroup? BTW, even the Iraqw who have been living in Tanzania for at least 3000 years share your Haplogroup T.

Why therefore would you want to make it out as if Haplogroup T is a foreign lineage, when its as native to Somalis(and Horn of Africans) as E1b1b(which is also shared by North Africans and Southern Europeans)? Even Haplogroup J can be considered native to the Horn.

This theory I like it, because it doesn't remove claim to being descendants of Muhammed SCW, while at the same time it removes the arabphile elements of being descendants of Muhammed SCW, he could very well have been a horner, the Hejaz and the horn is not far from each other, clans can move back and forth repeatedly.

These T fanatics have 2 objects, disprove relations to Muhammed SCW, and dismantle the Isaac clan and make it part of Dir, I don't mind the second

They have failed to dismantle Darood doe, they only managed to disprove MJ and Warsan membership of Darood.

The prophet pbuh was most likely J1 from the subclade - L859. Most of Hashemites including the Jordanian royal family have gotten this. Sorry, but Darood aren’t the descendants of the Prophet.

First of all we have no proof that Prophet Mohamed was J1, and second of all being a descendant of the prophet doesn't necessarily mean you have his lineage, but perhaps one of his great grand daughters who come from a family known to have descended from the prophet married into your lineage making you Sayiid because the prophet was your rer abti.

finally I want to clarify J1 is a laangaab clan in the horn, are you calling prophet muhammed a laangaab ?

[zumaale]

the average Darood does not claim arab, the average Djiboutian claims arab, I meet alot of them in scandinavia, yet Darood origin story is arab while djiboutian is dir.

You are obsessed in disproving our lineage but you have managedto only disprove Isaac funnily enough.

Sxb, search through my posts on Somalinet, I have never created a thread or started a discussion about Darood's supposed Bani Hashim ancestry. I have already made it plain to you that we do not even belong to the same Horn of African family, you are Jabarti and I am Samaale. Why would I be obsessively bothered about your lineage when we do not have the same origin myth? For all I care, you can claim to be a descendant of Gengis Khan.

That being said, it is not even open for debate that the E-V32 haplogroup that many Daroods and Samaales belong to is mainly indigenous to Africa. It would be an insult to even call you a novice in matters pertaining to DNA so please spare yourself further embarrassment by refraining from dragging this debate on as only one of us will end like looking like a fool. The most knowledgeable Darood Jamacatul DNA members will repeat what I have told you in this thread. Darood Guys such as Estarix, Awale on Anthrogenica, the Admin of the Somali FTDNA page and Herr Itrah/Amun would tell you to sit your ignorance ass down. Even your own MX cousins that have taken the test such as Advo, Murax, SultanOrder etc. won't side with you in this debate.

what evidence do you have that the Hejaz Arabs a 1000 years ago were not E-V32 ?

I have evidence that many high ranking family members of prophet moved to East Africa, Hejaz arabs are the darkest skinned arabs to this day, they resemble Somalis in features as well, if you look at other arabs the nose is much bigger, the ears are huge. they look like trolls.

KowJow

This Nigga is just as Bad as AwRastaale, you will dumb yourself down by trying to explain the basics to him. Allow him, the more he writes, the deeper the hole he digs for himself.

[Lion104]

This theory I like it, because it doesn't remove claim to being descendants of Muhammed SCW, while at the same time it removes the arabphile elements of being descendants of Muhammed SCW, he could very well have been a horner, the Hejaz and the horn is not far from each other, clans can move back and forth repeatedly.

These T fanatics have 2 objects, disprove relations to Muhammed SCW, and dismantle the Isaac clan and make it part of Dir, I don't mind the second

They have failed to dismantle Darood doe, they only managed to disprove MJ and Warsan membership of Darood.

The prophet pbuh was most likely J1 from the subclade - L859. Most of Hashemites including the Jordanian royal family have gotten this. Sorry, but Darood aren’t the descendants of the Prophet.

First of all we have no proof that Prophet Mohamed was J1, and second of all being a descendant of the prophet doesn't necessarily mean you have his lineage, but perhaps one of his great grand daughters who come from a family known to have descended from the prophet married into your lineage making you Sayiid because the prophet was your rer abti.

finally I want to clarify J1 is a laangaab clan in the horn, are you calling prophet muhammed a laangaab ?

Yh but darood isn’t a descendant of his great grand daughter, but claim to be descendants from the prophets first cousin, aqeel ibn abi talib(ra).

And whilst we have no proof that the prophet pbuh is J1, the minority out of the millions of people who claim to be from his lineage have formed a cluster showing that they’re his true descendants.

I don’t know what you’re talking about in your last sentence

[zumaale]

Haplogroup T is shared by all Horn of Africans including Oromos, Afars, Habeshas etc. Why do you think that you’re closer to Arabians, than all the named above who share your haplogroup? BTW, even the Iraqw who have been living in Tanzania for at least 3000 years share your Haplogroup T.

Why therefore would you want to make it out as if Haplogroup T is a foreign lineage, when its as native to Somalis(and Horn of Africans) as E1b1b(which is also shared by North Africans and Southern Europeans)? Even Haplogroup J can be considered native to the Horn.

Yo, the argument that KowJow made is not about haplogroups or being closer to Arabs but about a specific subclade of HG-T . Do you know how old the haplogroups you mentioned are and how they split up? You have T and J subclades that are present in both Arabia and Africa whilst some are solely found in Eurasia. It cannot be implied that just because T is found among the Iraqw then all HG-T carriers in East Africa are the same. For example, a Saho T carrier that did the test belongs to a different T subcalde as can be observed in the following Yfull link. Search Eritrea.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/t/

The Y16897 T subclade that we belong to has been found in both Eurasia and Somalia. As things stand, the only other people who share our subclade are Arabs in the Gulf and other Eurasians. As more Y-full test results become available, other Africans might possess it too. Hence, we need more test results before making concrete assertions. However, we do not have the same point of origin as E-V32 Somalis. When their E-V32 ancestors were breaking bread and breeding with the Nilo-Saharans, our ancestor was not even in Africa but in the Middle East. Capisce?

[Jabuutawi]

The Y16897 T subclade that we belong to has been found in both Eurasia and Somalia. As things stand, the only other people who share our subclade are Arabs in the Gulf and other Eurasians. As more Y-full test results become available, other Africans might possess it too. Hence, we need more test results before making concrete assertions. However, we do not have the same point of origin as E-V32 Somalis. When their E-V32 ancestors were breaking bread and breeding with the Nilo-Saharans, our ancestor was not even in Africa but in the Middle East. Capisce?

[Adali]

The prophet pbuh was most likely J1 from the subclade - L859. Most of Hashemites including the Jordanian royal family have gotten this. Sorry, but Darood aren’t the descendants of the Prophet.

First of all we have no proof that Prophet Mohamed was J1, and second of all being a descendant of the prophet doesn't necessarily mean you have his lineage, but perhaps one of his great grand daughters who come from a family known to have descended from the prophet married into your lineage making you Sayiid because the prophet was your rer abti.

finally I want to clarify J1 is a laangaab clan in the horn, are you calling prophet muhammed a laangaab ?

Yh but darood isn’t a descendant of his great grand daughter, but claim to be descendants from the prophets first cousin, aqeel ibn abi talib(ra).

And whilst we have no proof that the prophet pbuh is J1, the minority out of the millions of people who claim to be from his lineage have formed a cluster showing that they’re his true descendants.

I don’t know what you’re talking about in your last sentence

I was referring to the Jordanian family not Darood, I am not so much interested in the Prophet descendants claim, its not really something to make fun of, its not like Darood is claiming to be descendants of just any random Ayrab, it is religious bearing to it more than Arabphile bearing.

T-Gang who is the latest clan to join you among the Isaac, Garhajis are they all T, is it just Habar Yonis, or Ciidagale ?

[zumaale]

War wuxu dhandhansana!

The Ruling Family of Jordan are not descendants of the Prophet's SAWS Great Granddaughter!

You do not become a Sayid or a Sharif by marrying one of the Prophet's (SAWS) Great Granddaughters but must be a descendant of Hassan (RAH) or Hussein (RAH).

The Jordanian head of the Hashemite clan are direct descendants of Hassan (RAH). Considering that Cali (RAH) was a paternal cousin of the Prophet SAWS, his Y-DNA is the same as that of the Prophet SAWS. Hassan's (RAH) Grandfather Abu Talib was the head of the Bani Hashim before he died. The Hashemites were the traditional Ahlul Bayt rulers of the Sharifate of Mecca until the Saud family seized control of the Hijaz. No one in the Arab or Muslim world doubts the authencity of their pedigree. The Bani Hashim clan that the Prophet (SAWS) belonged to is the same one that currently dominates Jordan after being forced to migrate from the Hijaz after the Saudi victory over the Hashemites.

[Adali]

War wuxu dhandhansana!

The Ruling Family of Jordan are not descendants of the Prophet's SAWS Great Granddaughter!

You do not become a Sayid or a Sharif by marrying one of the Prophet's (SAWS) Great Granddaughters but must be a descendant of Hassan (RAH) or Hussein (RAH).

The Jordanian head of the Hashemite clan are direct descendants of Hassan (RAH). Considering that Cali (RAH) was a paternal cousin of the Prophet SAWS, his Y-DNA is the same as that of the Prophet SAWS. Hassan's (RAH) Grandfather Abu Talib was the head of the Bani Hashim before he died. The Hashemites were the traditional Ahlul Bayt rulers of the Sharifate of Mecca until the Saud family seized control of the Hijaz. No one in the Arab or Muslim world doubts the authencity of their pedigree. The Bani Hashim clan that the Prophet (SAWS) belonged to is the same one that currently dominates Jordan after being forced to migrate from the Hijaz after the Saudi victory over the Hashemites.

I see well its good to get educated on these matters by a local hobbyist, so are you saying Darood cannot have been descendant of Aqeel because you are certain he is not E-V35 ? This entirely rest on the authenticity of the royal family of Jordan,are you willing to bed your clans lineage on the claim of Jordans royal family who have long been subdued by British empire, Zionist etc

I am just playing the devils advocate but its actually not unreasonable to ask for something more concrete to disprove Darood claim to be descendants of Prophet family.

By the way, you didn't answer my question, the T family is all of Garhajis or just some of them, is it all of Gedabursi or just some of them, is there infact any clan that is predominantly T so far ?

[zumaale]

War wuxu dhandhansana!

The Ruling Family of Jordan are not descendants of the Prophet's SAWS Great Granddaughter!

You do not become a Sayid or a Sharif by marrying one of the Prophet's (SAWS) Great Granddaughters but must be a descendant of Hassan (RAH) or Hussein (RAH).

The Jordanian head of the Hashemite clan are direct descendants of Hassan (RAH). Considering that Cali (RAH) was a paternal cousin of the Prophet SAWS, his Y-DNA is the same as that of the Prophet SAWS. Hassan's (RAH) Grandfather Abu Talib was the head of the Bani Hashim before he died. The Hashemites were the traditional Ahlul Bayt rulers of the Sharifate of Mecca until the Saud family seized control of the Hijaz. No one in the Arab or Muslim world doubts the authencity of their pedigree. The Bani Hashim clan that the Prophet (SAWS) belonged to is the same one that currently dominates Jordan after being forced to migrate from the Hijaz after the Saudi victory over the Hashemites.

I see well its good to get educated on these matters by a local hobbyist, so are you saying Darood cannot have been descendant of Aqeel because you are certain he is not E-V35 ? This entirely rest on the authenticity of the royal family of Jordan,are you willing to bed your clans lineage on the claim of Jordans royal family who have long been subdued by British empire, Zionist etc

I am just playing the devils advocate but its actually not unreasonable to ask for something more concrete to disprove Darood claim to be descendants of Prophet family.

By the way, you didn't answer my question, the T family is all of Garhajis or just some of them, is it all of Gedabursi or just some of them, is there infact any clan that is predominantly T so far ?

One does not need to be a 'local hobbyist' to know about the Family of the Prophet (SAWS). Any Muslim who has read about the Prophet (SAWS) knows some basic stuff about his family, like who his Father was; who raised him and how Cali (RAH) is related to him. You made a basic error by assuming you become Ahlul Bayt merely by marrying the Prophet's SAWS Great Granddaughter.

Caqil (RAH) is the Brother of Cali (RAH) and the cousin of the Prophet (SAWS), did you know that? Just checking. Do I need to spell it out for you that if Caqil (RAH) and Cali (RAH) are Brothers then their descendants will both possess the same y-dna?

The head of the Banu Hashim clan is a Sharif, there are no question marks over the lineage of this dynasty. Your MX cousin (Lion) already told you that the signature marker of the Hashemites is a subclade of haplogroup J1. It is folly to entertain the idea that an E-V32 East African belongs to the lineage of the Prophet SAWS.



As for your question, address me directly if you want an answer. There is no T-Gang as I am the only veteran HG-T Somalinet member of 'Jamacatul DNA'. So far, Samaroon and Garxajis test results are overwhelmingly HG-T. It is arguable that HG-T is the dominant lineage in non-Darood areas of North-Western Somaliweyn.

[zumaale]

The Y16897 T subclade that we belong to has been found in both Eurasia and Somalia. As things stand, the only other people who share our subclade are Arabs in the Gulf and other Eurasians. As more Y-full test results become available, other Africans might possess it too. Hence, we need more test results before making concrete assertions. However, we do not have the same point of origin as E-V32 Somalis. When their E-V32 ancestors were breaking bread and breeding with the Nilo-Saharans, our ancestor was not even in Africa but in the Middle East. Capisce?

E-V32 Bani Hashim sailing to Somali colonies, circa 1500.

[Lion104]

You have T and J subclades that are present in both Arabia and Africa whilst some are solely found in Eurasia. It cannot be implied that just because T is found among the Iraqw then all HG-T carriers in East Africa are the same. For example, a Saho T carrier that did the test belongs to a different T subcalde as can be observed in the following Yfull link. Search Eritrea.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/t/

The Y16897 T subclade that we belong to has been found in both Eurasia and Somalia. As things stand, the only other people who share our subclade are Arabs in the Gulf and other Eurasians.

As more Y-full test results become available, other Africans might possess it too. Hence, we need more test results before making concrete assertions. However, we do not have the same point of origin as E-V32 Somalis. When their E-V32 ancestors were breaking bread and breeding with the Nilo-Saharans, our ancestor was not even in Africa but in the Middle East. Capisce?

Could you point me to any studies that says that the Y16897 T subclade isn't found in East Africa outside of Somalia? Where is the proof that all Somali T carries belong to the Y16897 subclade? In fact, how many Somali T carries have even done the full Y test?

When you say that you don't have the same point of origin as E-V32 Somalis, what exactly do you mean? Diversity in Y-DNA doesn't mean you have different origins. The Y16897 T subclade is 6000-8400 years old, meaning it's most likely an original Cushitic Y-DNA. Bare in mind that it's also found in low numbers across all Somali clans, although it peaks among certain clans.

[KowJow]

You have T and J subclades that are present in both Arabia and Africa whilst some are solely found in Eurasia. It cannot be implied that just because T is found among the Iraqw then all HG-T carriers in East Africa are the same. For example, a Saho T carrier that did the test belongs to a different T subcalde as can be observed in the following Yfull link. Search Eritrea.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/t/

The Y16897 T subclade that we belong to has been found in both Eurasia and Somalia. As things stand, the only other people who share our subclade are Arabs in the Gulf and other Eurasians.

As more Y-full test results become available, other Africans might possess it too. Hence, we need more test results before making concrete assertions. However, we do not have the same point of origin as E-V32 Somalis. When their E-V32 ancestors were breaking bread and breeding with the Nilo-Saharans, our ancestor was not even in Africa but in the Middle East. Capisce?

Could you point me to any studies that says that the Y16897 T subclade isn't found in East Africa outside of Somalia? Where is the proof that all Somali T carries belong to the Y16897 subclade? In fact, how many Somali T carries have even done the full Y test?

When you say that you don't have the same point of origin as E-V32 Somalis, what exactly do you mean? Diversity in Y-DNA doesn't mean you have different origins. The Y16897 T subclade is 6000-8400 years old, meaning it's most likely an original Cushitic Y-DNA. Bare in mind that it's also found in low numbers across all Somali clans, although it peaks among certain clans.

It was determined in the Sanchez study that the Haplogroup T Somalis most recent common ancestor lived 2000-2200 years ago. The STR values of T samples in this study perfectly matched both Dir and Habar Yoonis samples that were commercially tested.

Recently it has been established that Habar Yoonis individuals who took the 111 Y- STR and 69 Y-STR tests respectively , belong to the Y16897 subclade , the DYS425 value of '14' which defines this clade has been identified in them , another Habar Yonis also ordered a Y-SNP pack and he has been confirmed to belong to the Y16897 subclade. Since this clade , as you already mentioned is about 8 millenia old and since it has been determined that Somali Haplogroup T carriers share a recent ancestor juts 2 millenia ago , logic then dictates that Dir Haplogroup T carriers must also belong to the Y16897 subclade. Ma fahantay.

[zumaale]

Could you point me to any studies that says that the Y16897 T subclade isn't found in East Africa outside of Somalia? Where is the proof that all Somali T carries belong to the Y16897 subclade? In fact, how many Somali T carries have even done the full Y test?

Find me a study which has found Y16897 in East Africa?! Researchers do not generally carry out y-full tests because they are too expensive. No study on HG-T in East Africa has used y-full test kits, hence there are no studies to speak of. Why do you think I said that it is possible Y16897 might be found among non-Somali Africans as more people do the y-full/big y-test? As things stand, most HG-T Africans that have privately done the y-full or big-Y test are North East Africans and not one of them has tested positive for Y16897 yet.

Secondly, I never argued that all Somali HG-T's are Y16897, I can only speak of Somalis that share the same lineage as identified in the Sanchez et al study. The study used STR's when it estimated that the Somali haplogroup T carriers that they sampled had a common ancestry within the last two millenniums or so. The Iacovacci Djiboutian study also used STR's when establishing that the Ciise/Samaroon T samples were close matches; their STR's also relate to the ones found in the Sanchez et al study. My STR markers are also present in the Sanchez T samples (HT-84), so is a HY (HT-82). Thus, if one of us tests positive for Y16897 on the y-full test, anyone else who is closely matched to our individual STR's is going to be Y-16897 because it has a very old TMRCA and precedes the TMRCA estimate of Sanchez's Somali T samples by thousands of years. There is no need for several us to do the y-full/big y in order to determine if we belong to Y16897! However, to determine when our founding father lived, more of us need to do the test.

When you say that you don't have the same point of origin as E-V32 Somalis, what exactly do you mean? Diversity in Y-DNA doesn't mean you have different origins. The Y16897 T subclade is 6000-8400 years old, meaning it's most likely an original Cushitic Y-DNA. Bare in mind that it's also found in low numbers across all Somali clans, although it peaks among certain clans.

Y16897 is found among Western Europeans, Ashkenazi Jews and Gulf Arab clan confederations?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y16897/

How can you argue that it is a Cushitic marker? Going by your logic, they are also of Cushitic origin.

Like HG-T, the Y16897 subclade originates somewhere in Eurasia. My ancestor and those of the above ethnic groups parted ways thousands of years ago, Mine headed South to Africa, there is no doubt about that. However, it cannot be argued that we have an indigenous African origin that can be connected to the formation of the Cushites because the TMRCA (7200ybp/5th century BC) of Y16897 is well before the estimated date in which the Cushitic ancestors of E-V32 Somalis were having cultural exchanges with Nilo-Saharans: