Do you prefer Somalia to become Theocratic or democratic.

[avowedly-agnostic]

[quote] agnostic you are the biggest jerk online.
I used the word ‘’sunshine’’ in a sarcastic manner.
You are the dumbest mother here. Your are very good with the English language yet this doesn’t shadow your stupidity [/quote]

I see that you've picked up a few debating techniques from LionHeart, that is dodging the topic at hand, and insulting your opponents to deflect attention from the fact that you're talking nonsense.

I've already explained at great length (in this and past threads as well) why I think we have freedom of speech in Western Europe and North America. If you're arguing that somehow we're all deluded, and that we've been fooled into thinking we have free speech when in fact we don't, then it's only proper that you justify your claims.

Failure to justify your claims is to accept that you don't have any proof, and that you're terribly mistaken.

I won't be responding to any more of your silly unfounded claims until you either rebutt my point or admit that we do have freedom of speech in the UK & US just as it is enshrined in our respective countries.

P.S. regarding the “sunshine” issue, it's too late to take it back now, because I've already asked my girlfriend to start calling me it.

[BLUE RUSH]

dumb ass. wat did i say in why first thread you moron..

i don't give a shit about you love girl friend

[BLUE RUSH]

dumb ass. wat did i say in why first thread you moron..

i don't give a shit about you love girl friend

[biko]

since this is about somalia and not somaliland nor djibouti i say democracy or whatever that will let people (who have been murdered, raped and god knows what else) - have a taste of stability and a chance to make something out of their lives.

from what brother xabashow said in his recent report from somalia, and from what my few moryan mirqaan parteners tells me; am rooting for the wadaados to put an end to the moryaan activities that have been going on for long.

but i would have prefered they transfered all power to djibouti which will give them more hope. or even somaliland.

[Mowhawk]

Wow

Subax wannaagsan all.

Who said that the trademark of democracy is owned by the western powers? Our prophet bever deignated a successor and left to other Muslims to choose/vote to nominate for the Rightly guided caliphs. One can successfully argue that Muslims invented democracy.

Please let us refrain from insults because it is the antithesis of being a Muslim. Let everyone express their point of view without harrassment. Yes, Lacageey presented a good argument based on the Salafi Manhaj, but there are many non-salafi Muslim Somalis who see Saudi Arabia as a bad example and want to avoid a system like that.

[LionHeart-112]

Mowhawk....When discussing democracy, you have to be really specific. There are many different democracies, most of them are of course only in theory. One example of democracy is indirect democracy which is practiced in the U.S.A and many Western countries. This is what comes to the mind of every1 when the word "democracy" is mentioned. You can't be throwing around words like "democracy"if you want to get a precise answer.

This ^^type of democracy is one that's created BY the people, and FOR the people. Islam is not compatible with western democracy because of the whole separation of church and state dillema. In Islam, there is only One legislator (law-maker) and that's Allah (swt). In the west, laws are made by man and God's laws are reduced to mere Sunday morning entertainment.

Islam has no problem with choosing leaders directly (democratically by the people).

[Mowhawk]

LionHeart

I'm not talking about a western style secular based demcoracy. You summed up for me when you stated below: For me Malaysia is a good example to follow. First educate the people about their own religion and improve their condition. I even suggested to look at the Iranian model, where they have a supreme Ullemma Council (but this has to be inclussive to all the Somali Muslim scholars Shafia-Salafi and etc) and an elected president and parliamentarians.

"Islam has no problem with choosing leaders directly (democratically by the people)."

[LionHeart-112]

Malaysia is not a good example in that they haven't fully implemented the Sharicah. It's a good model for other muslims countries to follow interms of economic, technology and education but they are not the best example of a Islamic based democracy.

[Under Taker.]

i think islam is all about democracy. and i think that sheria law should be implemented in somalia. i think i agree with lion

[LionHeart-112]

Undertaker..don't be so surprised. All genuine muslims think alike when it comes to their Deen and how it should be practiced.

[xoogSADE14]

NEITHER

first of all "democracy" is just a made-up word because there is no one universal way that all "democratic gov't" govern their crounties

the last thing i want is a few guys in turbans telling me how to live my life maybe the ones who voted for "theocratic regime" don't really know what it feels like to live under a taliban-like tech-hating gardheerayaal

i would rather somalia remain the same shitty place it is today than see it under the rule of some turban wearing arab lackeys

[DamallaXagare]

[quote="Mowhawk"]Wow

Subax wannaagsan all.

Who said that the trademark of democracy is owned by the western powers? Our prophet bever deignated a successor and left to other Muslims to choose/vote to nominate for the Rightly guided caliphs. One can successfully argue that Muslims invented democracy.

.[/quote]




We Muslims were dynamic in the past. Someone was telling me this story with a sense of humor.

He said that the West was so ridiculous to have stolen all the civilizations we have obtained that they even emulated and took the Hadith that says the Smile is a Sadaqa. Give Smile to your friends, clients, customers and every stranger so that you get Rewards from Allah.


So true.

[salafi_student]

Mowhawk,

Number one was my choice!

In further .........


The Most High said:

"Authority and comand is for Allah alone" [ Qur'an 12:40 ]


Ulama explained that this verse is one of the basic principles of Towheed.
The one who becomes reluctance of acting up on any obligatory duties because of weakness in him self with out rejection, he is a sinner but a Muslim as long as he is performing the prayer.

However, who ever rejects any aspect of the religion of Islam with full knowledge of the consequences of his actions then he becomes a disbeliever.


The Most High said:

“And whosoever does not judge by what Allâh has revealed, such are the disbelievers." [ Qur'an 5:44 ]


The one who argues he is a believer and says man made laws are better, more suitable in our time than the Allah’s low, intentionally is considered to be a disbeliever and rejecter of the Qur’anic verses.


As The Most High said:

"Have you seen those (hypocrites) who claim that they believe in that which has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and they wish to go for judgement to the Tâghût (false judges, etc.) while they have been ordered to reject them. But Satan wishes to lead them far astray."[ Qur'an 4:60 ]


The Most High said:

"But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad SAW) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." [ Qur'an 4:65 ]


The most high said :

"And the Hypocrites say, 'We believe in Allah and His massenger, and are obedient to Allah and His messenger'. Then they turn away from Allah's Messenger to others for jugment, and they are not believers."[ Qur'an 24;47]

“And if they are called to the book of Allah and His messenger for judgment about that which they dispute in, then a group of them turn away from acceptance of the truth." [ Qur'an 24:48 ]


whoever said democracy or fedaralism is the only way of somalia to rise from it's ruins has said an enormous thing. I’m not sure weather they aware! Ask forgiveness and repent sincerely to Allah (SWT).


The Most High said in the Qur’an :

“When you were propagating it with your tongues, and uttering with your mouths that whereof you had no knowledge, you counted it a little thing, while with Allâh it was very great.” [ Qur’an 24;15 ]


Hadith narrated by Anas in Sahih Bukhari:

That the Prophet (SAW) said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will taste the sweetness of faith:

1. The one to whom Allah and His Apostle become dearer than anything else.

2. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.

3. Who hates to revert to disbelief (Atheism) after Allah has brought (saved) him out from it, as he hates to be thrown in fire."


For the point of evidence in the Hadith been that someone should hate to turn back to disbelieve after Allah guided him or his people.

May Allah give us these qualities and make us die in Islam.

Allah ordered for all mankind to follow the prophet until the last day. Taking him as an example in any aspect of their lives.


Hadith Narrated by Anas:

The Prophet (SAW) said "None of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind." ( Sahiih Bukhari ).

Point of evidence here in this Hadith is that faith is connected to loving the prophet (SAW), and making him dearer to you than the closest people in your life so you obey him, eccept his message and his comands. (Sharia)

May Allah give us the true love of our beloved prophet in order we may love him and follow his foot steps, to be successful in this life and hereafter.


Wallahu A'alam

[SoMaLiSiZz]

Bissmellah

democracy is for jaahil weak muslims, munaafiqs and Kaafirs !!


1. As they are not content with the sharica of Allah caza w Jal!

2. these Pathetic Weaklings are in need of laws that were created by Allahs' ===> creation ====> The most narrow minded ignorant once!

3. All this while they neglect their Creator Allah the most Wise and His Prophet Mohamed Sunnah Salwat Allah w Salam upon him!


Seriously how ignorant can you get? Stupid fools!

[gurey25]

We muslims will have to be open minded and logical when we aproach this issue.
Ideally we should look at it like an engineering problem,
and avoid dogma and mindless debate.

start from the begining , try different things , see what works and what doesnt.

Just like The rebel said the shareeca is an ideal that we should live up to, but we have been given enoughh leeway for us humans to fill in the details.


One thing we should be wary of is concentration of power.
the centres of power the legislature, executive and judicial should be conter balanced and power spread out between them.

Power is like heroin and if you give a small group of ulema ultimate power you would be doing both them and the people great harm, becuase you will corrupt them.

we should be imaginative, becuase there are many ways of getting the same thing done.



my 2 cents