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[quote="Sadaam_Mariixmaan"][quote="Samatr"]Somaliland is retarded, it has no problem jailing Isaaq traditional leaders and it treats faqash scum like Riyaale, Duucaale and Ismaciil Faqash like royalty. It always surprises me how any Isaaq can be for Somaliland when it is this corrupt and you scum running around the parliament. I would rather have a united Somalia which Isaaqs rule their own territories and join Somalia with all its problems than to live in a country where the same faqash rule and tell the citizens to keep dreaming about a non existent recognition.[/quote]


^^ cot damn u believe in a Federalized Somalia?


Long Live Saciid Gerxajis Isxaaq Axmed!! [/quote]

There is nothing wrong with a federalized Somalia, every subclan should take care of themselves and we should unite when there is a national threat, its in everybody's best interest to be united when fighting foreign threats on Somali soil whether it is in Xamar, Hargeysa, Burco, Buuhoodle, Kismaayo, Saylac etc. Soomaalidu badankood isma dhaamaan ma na kala maarmaan.

[quote="Samatr"][quote="Sadaam_Mariixmaan"][quote="Samatr"]Somaliland is retarded, it has no problem jailing Isaaq traditional leaders and it treats faqash scum like Riyaale, Duucaale and Ismaciil Faqash like royalty. It always surprises me how any Isaaq can be for Somaliland when it is this corrupt and you scum running around the parliament. I would rather have a united Somalia which Isaaqs rule their own territories and join Somalia with all its problems than to live in a country where the same faqash rule and tell the citizens to keep dreaming about a non existent recognition.[/quote]


^^ cot damn u believe in a Federalized Somalia?


Long Live Saciid Gerxajis Isxaaq Axmed!! [/quote]

There is nothing wrong with a federalized Somalia, every subclan should take care of themselves and we should unite when there is a national threat, its in everybody's best interest to be united when fighting foreign threats on Somali soil whether it is in Xamar, Hargeysa, Burco, Buuhoodle, Kismaayo, Saylac etc. Soomaalidu badankood isma dhaamaan ma na kala maarmaan.[/quote]


Habar Yoonis should lead this idea

[quote="Samatr"][quote="Sadaam_Mariixmaan"][quote="Samatr"]Somaliland is retarded, it has no problem jailing Isaaq traditional leaders and it treats faqash scum like Riyaale, Duucaale and Ismaciil Faqash like royalty. It always surprises me how any Isaaq can be for Somaliland when it is this corrupt and you scum running around the parliament. I would rather have a united Somalia which Isaaqs rule their own territories and join Somalia with all its problems than to live in a country where the same faqash rule and tell the citizens to keep dreaming about a non existent recognition.[/quote]


^^ cot damn u believe in a Federalized Somalia?


Long Live Saciid Gerxajis Isxaaq Axmed!! [/quote]

There is nothing wrong with a federalized Somalia, every subclan should take care of themselves and we should unite when there is a national threat, its in everybody's best interest to be united when fighting foreign threats on Somali soil whether it is in Xamar, Hargeysa, Burco, Buuhoodle, Kismaayo, Saylac etc. Soomaalidu badankood isma dhaamaan ma na kala maarmaan.[/quote]

sounds nice doesnt it.
but things dont work out that way.
whatever position we take in somalia should be negotiated from a position of strenght.

In somalia bieng a Somali patriot and caring about all somalis first irrespective of clan is a severe weakness and whoever believes that shit will be bumrushed like a punk in prison.

^ Sadly Somaliland doesn't want to negotiate. They could negotiate on a position of strength right now. However they don't want nothing to do with somalia. If and when the TFG summons the strength to tackle Xamar and all of somalia save waqooyi galbeed provinces then somaliland would be negotiating on a position similiar to a who.re on her knees. At best they would be negotiating with a hand behand their backs. The time is now for somaliland to take the forefront. But I hardly believe this is a likely scenario.

UncleBin, it is a question of time, and for political expediency Somaliland will come the negotiating table. They will make a condition to come the table as a Somaliland government, and will refuse to join a 4.5 based government. Somaliland will demand negotiation based on Somalia and Somaliland forming a government whereby everything is done 50/50. If Somalia takes the presidency, the premeirship goes to Somaliland. If Somalia takes head of the military, the head of the police goes to Somaliland etc. etc. etc. etc. They will insist on pursuing seccession or "re-joining" Somalia on a 50-50 basis.

The 50/50 formula is nothing less than empowering the dominant clan in the North and is not clear how that will play out with the other groups in Somaliland. One possible arrangement would be to convince people to support a 50/50 arrangement with Somalia proper and then use a formula similar to the 4.5 t divy up the 50% with-in Somaliland.


Late edition
from Niyadesk

uncle bin


your problem is that you think too highly of yourself.

Somaliland can afford to make mistake after mistake, can afford to have a treasonous and incompetant government.

in the end we can kick anybodies ass, with our hands tied behind our backs.

i believe in efficiency, i want us to have all our resources available.
this is better for you in the end becuase it means a quick end and less unnecessary civilian deaths.

niya if i was incharge of somaliland in a future were a newly recovered somalia existed i would ofcourse negotiate.

but there are some things that can be accomodated and things that cannot.

1.international community will have to bribe us with billions in aid
2.international community and future somali government turns a blind eye to our own private parralel millitary force, funded from the same source as somalia .
3.federal autonomy in local legislature and economic policy as well as consular relations with other countries.


give me this and i dont care if President, vice president, prime minister the entire cabinet goes to the south without a single isaaq cabinet member, or even if the capital is in kismayo.
I will still sign up, becuase that doesnt matter at all.

This is a healthy discussion. First to uncleben. Somaliland is in a very strong position right now when compared to the other parts of former Somalia. We have a country, peace, our own currency, flag, etc, etc we are a nation, recognised or not. Majority of Somalilanders are dead against anything to do with former Somalia, Italian Somaliland that is. The wounds are still fresh from the disasterous union of 1960, in which the older generation of Somalilanders yearning for Somaliweyn rushed into marriage with Somalia without conditions. This new generation of Somalilanders like me are not so full of Somaliweyn ideas of brotherly love, you need to bring more than bananas for us to even begin to think aout holding talks with Somalia proper, such talks am sure will include international mediaters, most likey Britain and some of the neighboring contries, Ethiopia, Kenya, etc...

As a Somalilander, let me play the Devils advocate here and examine the facts, Somaliland functions like a full fledged democratic state, Somalia doesn't, there is a gap between the two nations that needs to be addressed, Abdulaahi Yusu'f or Geedi's remarks about one Somalia, indivisible, only add gasoline to the calls for seperation, Southern politicians have alianated Somailanders sympathetic to the old Republic. Yes there is Somalilanders and many Isaqs who are not keen to see the country divided. It is just that with every comment made by a Southern-ignorant-turned-politician their numbers shrink and the other camp's number increase, I would say Isaq/Somalilanders are not serious enough about Somaliland becoming a seperate entity, otherwise, they would use their resources wisely and Somaliland would be recognised by now.


Now. This 4.5 TFG invention will not fly in Somaliland. There is no DIR Waqooyi, there is Isaq. No one in Somaliland will buy into this DIR business or anything to do with 4.5. Calls from TFG officials for another Shir Beeleed somehwere is also non starter, Somalilanders have had their recon conferences way back in 1991/92/93/97, peace brokered between all clans in Somaliland and it is all behind us, this Shir Beeleed has nothing to do with Somaliland, it is for Southern consumption only(Puntland included)


If anything, two party negotiation is the closest thing to reality, Somalia(puntland included) Vs Somaliland. 50/50 is not fair given the fact that Somaliland is ahead in the game and has achieved remarkable success in short period of time and is to gain more if it stays the course as an independent state. Com'on my Southern counterparts, intice us here, bring something worth looking at to the table, and please don't insult our intelligence with exports of Southern agricultural foods, we produce our own food and import the rest, we have a port so we are not landlocked, we have a beautiful country, a growing, healthy workforce and soon or later big money will come. This leads me to my final question to all of those who hail from Somalia(not Somaliland) WHAT IS IT THAT YOU CAN OFFER SOMALILAND TO GIVE THIS FAILED MARRIAGE ANOTHER TRY?


I, await your answers

In my Insomnia raved self



Niya you bring some good points. 50/50 is not going to work. Isaaq getting 50% of Somalia for all the rest to share like a pack of dogs? Your crazy. They represent no more then 1/5 of Somalia proper. Even less in Ethnic Somalilands in a vision to have 'Somaliweyn' a sing clan getting more then their fair share is not going to happen.


Gurey

Trust me. Somalia in its irony of all ironies. Is an internationally recognized government with it's foreign affairs minister a man from Hargeisa. Now tell me do you not see a lot of political cards here? Say for instance 'war' broke out and the Foreign Affairs minister is in support of this war. No world government would believe that this is a clan aggresion when a man from the capital of this 'renegade' seccesionist region is on the other side of the coin. Even if he is 'in it for the money' as you landers propogate (But he hardly earns 2000 USD a month from my sources, but thats another story).

Position of strength for the Somalia government is 1) recognition 2) International dollars flooding in 3) embargo's and air probitiations from International airports in Dubai, London etc 4) A larger population of which to go to war 5) Julius caesar had his 400-500 german homicidal horseman who would be the trump card in Gallic wars, the TFG if they can consolidate with the HG have the most homicidal mother fukkas in Habr Gidr. Jokes aside but you see where I am going. Not that this would bring consensus. This would only fuel the fire between the Idoor vs the rest of the Walanweyn nation of Faqash, Hutu, Jareer Eelaay etc



Xidigta

It is not what your country can offer you but what can you offer your country. As a person from a relatively stable region (Albeit you crazy qaldaans kill each other ever so often). You should be at the vanguard of helping the crazy wanlaweyn nation. Shouldn't you guys be 'go gettas'. Instead of waiting for Abdullahi Yusuf to talk to his friend boqor buurmadoow and tell him to invite suldaan cismaan and say ' My mother is a dir waqooyi presumably damal muuse, we are all relatives'?


Come on. He will never do that. This is a man who will negotiate but when he offers something he doesn't flinch. In galkacyo he came out of jail and he negotiated the control of the airport in the city with aideed which was located on the Habar gidr side of galkacyo. Do you think he give you guys your imaginary 50+ percent of Somalia?

The best a somalilander could hope for is complete autonomy in Somaliland, whilst still being in a union with the country at large for national defense purposes etc. Do you know what a federal Somalia is? Do you think a walanweyn will be mayor of Hargeysa, Burco, Berbera like the past? Sxb thats not going to be the case. There will be regional States like Somaliland, Puntland, Jubbaland, Banadir etc

You will have your fair share of the cake in the federal government since the seats will be allocated in population basis. So certain seats of a federal government will be given to Hargeisa, Burco, Borama, Oodweyne, etc. All based on population. So you will not have to deal with being known as Dirta waqooyi. I understand that is a slap in the face and the TFG leadership should deal with this.


Now I shall go back to sleep.

Dream my dahabayaco dreamer, dream

I would love to see a peaceful somalia. But if you want war, we will give you a war inmany facites without pulling one trigger.

We should come to the table as brothers. If you have grievances, air them out. This is how things worked in the past. You want to talk, we will talk.

Where has negotiation come into play with criminals? Waqooyi Galbeed is runned by organized pirates with false ideology. They have committed treason and there attempts to undermined Somalia and Somalis will be dealt with accordingly by Somali governement when time comes.

^ Get the fukk out of here you neocon mother fukka.

only a loose confederation is acceptable.
and a private millitary is non-negotiable.

and unclebin, all you said will take years and years.
right now you cannot threaten us.
plus you assume that you will make the first move.

[quote="Unclebin-"]I would love to see a peaceful somalia. But if you want war, we will give you a war inmany facites without pulling one trigger.

We should come to the table as brothers. If you have grievances, air them out. This is how things worked in the past. You want to talk, we will talk.[/quote]



another assumption is that you believe that your opinion in the matter counts?

assumption is the mother of all fokups