Somaliweyn soo gal!

[Somaliweyn]

Somaliweyn
If you say a majority of puntlanders support the TFG, which is true and why not? because people in that region believe in a government even if it's not perfect.

Really? or is it they mistakenly believe one of their own is in charge? If you your assertion is true, then how do you explain their denial of ARTE government? or their division based on clan lines inside puntland administration?

Thats why I find the claims of Northeastern puppet regime supports always laughable. They pretend like ''dowlad'' is just something which arrived now.

During Arta, it was men like A.yusuf and most Northeastern who were against the TNA, and were was ''supporting a dowlad'' then?

Anyways, lets not derail the topic with inconsistent claims of puppet regime supporters.

[RebelLion]

Northeastern puppet regime? What about the mudulood and other clans in the regime?

Also the arta government was a corrupt government that didn't have support of most somali's, it was just formed as a way to get aid money from arabs. And the people of puntland were not represented well, as well as many somali groups. If there was adequate representation of all somali's I'm sure northeasterners and others would've supported it.

Either way, how's it relevant to the TFG or the peace process? it's the past and we must look to the future if we are to move forward as a people.

[sadeboi]

Somaliweyn, how do you view fellow Hawiyes, Southeastern folks who oppose al-shabab, yet also oppose the TFG, and only support the Hawiye led resistence? Such as abidwahab and twisted logic, do you view them the same way as you do rebelion and somalianboqor or no?

[The_Emperior5]

sade boi has a good poin this is a good debate and there are milions of hawiyes that dont like this alshabab. nor this t f g.
But rather prefer there clan To rule Something like golaha shuurada where hawiye was the boss in 2006.
While now allshaabaab got hawiye jeberti isaaqq digil and xurufle diir bantu and all the other people. and they just see them as another faction that wont protect just hawiye interrest

[Twisted_Logic]

Somaliweyn, how do you view fellow Hawiyes, Southeastern folks who oppose al-shabab, yet also oppose the TFG, and only support the Hawiye led resistence? Such as abidwahab and twisted logic, do you view them the same way as you do rebelion and somalianboqor or no?

When did I claim that Hawiye should lead the Somali nation? Or do you think my pragmatic view that the TFG nor the Al-shabab will not bring any solution to the Somali problem. I have noticed that the people who always preach against qabilinimo are in fact the ones so in bed with it.

[Somalian_Boqor]

Somaliweyn, how do you view fellow Hawiyes, Southeastern folks who oppose al-shabab, yet also oppose the TFG, and only support the Hawiye led resistence? Such as abidwahab and twisted logic, do you view them the same way as you do rebelion and somalianboqor or no?

When did I claim that Hawiye should lead the Somali nation? Or do you think my pragmatic view that the TFG nor the Al-shabab will not bring any solution to the Somali problem. I have noticed that the people who always preach against qabilinimo are in fact the ones so in bed with it.

You forgetting you are login as Twisted_logic and not as Somlaiweyn at the moment?

[Twisted_Logic]

^^^^^ You need an Ice-Cream and blanket. Go to Bed Son

[Somaliweyn]

Somaliweyn, how do you view fellow Hawiyes, Southeastern folks who oppose al-shabab, yet also oppose the TFG, and only support the Hawiye led resistence? Such as abidwahab and twisted logic, do you view them the same way as you do rebelion and somalianboqor or no?

I'll adress first this question, then continue with the subject of the topic.

The Q is, if I view Abdiwahab and Twisted-Logic, and Southwestern (not Southeastern ) the same as the shameless transmittion belts i.e the Northeastern supporters of the puppet regime/Ethiopa?

No not really. To start with AW/TL, ofcourse they supported the wrong side in the beginning (Abdiqeybiid/M.dheere), but both are now in a state were they can say openly: ''cut the heads of those two men'', which signifies that their loyalty has changed from blind loyalty to particular persons, to loyalty to ideas.

I have to see the day I hear a single Northeastern person on this Forum who will openly agree with the idea of ''executing the traitor A.yusuf''. To be honest and balanced, even Southwestern people seem to silently admire A.Yusuf as I have witnessed many times from the utterings of Murax, Voltage and you

The only patriotic and independent thinking Northeastern I have come across on this Forum is Zackabdul, and sometimes Scarscream. At least these two individuals can think for themselves, separate wrong from good, and understand that one should not blindly support criminals/traitors.

Anyways, we are derailing the topic. Lets continue, because the interesting parts of the analysis have yet to come. Kismaanyo issue will be adressed.

[sadeboi]

But just today abdiwahab said "Al-shabab is a problem for the masses, we are tired and the dijbouti process should be taken and accepted, we should make a deal and work with the TFG and so forth but al-shabab is in our way." Both twisted and a/wahab have mentioned their dis-support for the al-shabab movement, if not al-shabab and not TFG, who do they support?

[Somaliweyn]

Be patient. I'll explain why nowadays people rather prefer ICU then Al Shabab. It has to do with my former analysis of incorporating ''the current setting on the ground''.

[Somaliweyn]

In the last analysis we have understood what the Islamic movement is, how they operate and what their ideology is.

The question which we need to answer now is how can we come to terms with this Islamic movement, which will prevail in this conflict with Ethiopia and its puppet regime sooner rather then later. More important, can we even come to terms with the Islamic movment?

I believe so, depending on what component of the Islamic movement you are talking about. As we all know and see nowadays is that we have two main groups within the Islamic movement, namely Al Shabaab and the known ICU (who also have broken down into two factions Asmara-Djiboutie, but nonetheless share the same ideology and only diverged on tactics to be used).

A clear distinguishable feature of Al Shabaab is that the group has not come up with a viable solution to the dualism between clan and nation. They have discarded the policy of incorporating the ''current setting on the ground'' and have rather opted for a policy in which Al Shabaab should be diverse, and free from clan politics. They are composed of young men who know each other from previous trainings in Afganistan and other places, have fought together and in that way created some version of ''band of brothers''. To them, it is rather simple: you do not acknowldge the clan fragmentation in Somalia, do not talk about it, do not even incorporate the wishes of clans in their regions, and emphasis more the ideology in order to defeat clannism. This is basically how most political groups pre-1991 have tried to solve the issue of clannism in Somali society. From SYL, and the governments of 1960-1969 and 1969-1991. All have just discarded the discussion or incorporating the clan structures in Somalia into their policy and tactics. Although the government of 1960-1969 distributed the seats of government along clan lines, they have refrained from the discussion of this clan distrubition in the open an have rather kept it as a silent formula of distribution.

The distinguishing feature of Alshabaab is even visible in how they operate and the area's in which they operate. They are always active in regions/cities with diverse clan-structure and were the clan structures are not adhered to as strongly as in other places. They are active in Mogadishu (a diverse city), active in Lower Shabelle (a diverse region and were clan structures are not as strong due to the fact of agro-pastoralists), active in Bay (were clan structrures are weak) and active in Kismanyo/Lower Juba (were clan structure is diverse).

If we look at places like Hiiraan, Middle Shabelle, Gedo etc we can see that the Islamic groups in those regions rather identify themselves losely with the Islamic movement, but stress their independance and local character. Alshabab ofcourse has made incursions in these regions but they have never gained a strong foothold due to them been alien to the clans that inhabit those regions since they are composed of diverse men from diverse clan-backgrounds.

Due to this rather ''alien'' way of the group in post-1991 reality they have only received support from those that are tired of clannism and yet support the resistance against the occupation. These are small numbers of people since most Somalis are aware of the clan fragmentation in Somalia, and the post-1991 intensified animosity and mistrust between various groups. Another key aspect of Alshabaab is their radicalism, which can be explained partly by their foreign training and ideology and also by their frustration with not been a popular movement and not having popular support. Hence they seek attention, which can be achieved by shocking the people (beheadings, suicide operations, audacious assaults etc etc).

Now in the previously sketched desired development path of Somalia, the best group we can come to terms is the ICU since they have acknowledged the fact that Somalia in post-1991 is made of ''divided communities who hold animosity and mistrust against each other''.

Now how can we come to terms with this component of the Islamic movement?

[Twisted_Logic]

But just today abdiwahab said "Al-shabab is a problem for the masses, we are tired and the dijbouti process should be taken and accepted, we should make a deal and work with the TFG and so forth but al-shabab is in our way." Both twisted and a/wahab have mentioned their dis-support for the al-shabab movement, if not al-shabab and not TFG, who do they support?

Opposing the TFG and Al-shabab doesn't mean that one has a sinister agenda to further their own clan goals. That is just quite absurd. It doesn't take a genius to realize the destructive damage both factions are causing to Somalia's attempt to find a long-lasting resolution to the 18 year old conflict that has wrecked havoc on our country. Personally, I oppose the TFG and Al-Shabab because they are both part of the Somali problem and can't be the remedy to our calamity. One doesn't have to support either factions to show their honesty and quite frankly that is quite a stupid proposal. The Somali conflict is deeper and much more convoluted then you would have us believe. A third option is not only the most rational departure from our current national quandary but the beginning of any tangible resolution to the Somali conflict.

I oppose both the TFG and the heaven-bound Al-Shabab lunatics because doing so is suicidal for Somalia.

Coming back to the topic, it is clear that you are trying to frame Somaliweyn into satisfying your pre-conceived notions of his genuine nationalistic views being a more sinister cover for a secret Hawiye plan to take-over Somalia and honestly, a strong believer in clan politics like yourself can see nothing but bad in the hearts of people. The gentle-man has expressed his views in candid and frank manner and any honest person can see that what you call a "Hawiye cover-up," as only a pragmatic solution to our national nightmare.

To paraphrase Ralph Emerson, the spiritual measure of any inspiration is the depth of the thought and not who said it, so take Somaliweyn's views for what they are and what you want them to appear and analyze them in an honest heart.

mahadsanid

[Twisted_Logic]

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[Twisted_Logic]

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[Somaliweyn]

Wlc back.

I will continue my political analysis.

Let's refrain from any immature behaviour. This should be a genuine dialogue in which we exchange views.

Thanks