Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

[Somaliweyn]

When Siad Barre came to power in Somalia, there was one paved road in all of Somalia running in Mogadishu in front of the Roman arch. When he left, the country was one of the most powerful in Africa.

Instead of just talking, provide us with sources.

You claim there was 1 road, give us your sources. You claim he left the country as one of the most powerful in Africa, give us resources!

The fact is (and I shall present my sources to back it up) Mogadishu city was already built as its centre testifies of, there were already roads running throughout Mogadishu city, and many other paved roads connecting Mogadishu to agricultural centre's as Jowhar, Afgoye, Merca etc.

Another fact is, when Barre fled Mogadishu the army of the country (SNA) was broken down into pieces (clan-pieces to be sure), and the economy was bankrupt, while the heavy armory fell in the hands of different factions. Is this your definition of ''the most powerful country in Africa?

About your comparisons between the different presidents in terms of achievements, tell me what do you consider as an achievement?

The act of turning a country from mediocre nation into a bankrupt nation ripped apart by corruption/nepotism/clannism?

If that's your definition, then by all means Siad Barre is nr1.

Also, how can you compare someone like Siad barre to somoene like Aden Abdulle Osman? Siad Barre is in the same league as Mobutu, Idi Amin, Jerry Rawlings: all men who came to power through coup and when they left power left the country in ruin, while Aden Abdulle Osman is in the league of men like Kwame Nkrumah, Julius Nyerere, Patrice Lumumba etc etc, all men who were beloved when they came to power, and still to this day beloved and admired by their countrymen.

As I said earlier, lets compare the two periods while backing up with sources. Because otherwise the structure of the debate will be lost, and you will take that opportunity to make laughable claims like: ''he built all roads in Somalia, he built a spaceship to go to mars''

Claims should be backed up by sources my friend. Shall, we now continue with the investigation of the period of 1969-1991 and see what the military regime accomplished and what not?

[Voltage]

Old ladies tales sxb, keep moving. I am not two years old sxb and you of all people will not succeed in using reverse psychology on me.

As you said the discussion is between Somaliweyn and I. He knows how our discussion started and he can answer my charges.

This is where the discussion began and the main point of the topic:

http://www.somalinet.com/forum/viewtopi ... 82&start=0

If he wants to turn this into a legitimate discussion, I am more then welcome to contribute my part. If not, then he is welcome to continue on this joke.

He just cannot expect me to participate by legitimizing it.

Either way, continue sitting on the sideline and worrying about yourself.

[Twisted_Logic]

Voltage,

SW is now here to enlighten you some more. I will watch from the side-lines as the rest of SNET b/c if I join this discussion when you already have your back against the wall, you will have no option but to wave the white flag as you did in that last argument

Good luck Solider

[Voltage]

If that's your definition, then by all means Siad Barre is nr1.

Also, how can you compare someone like Siad barre to somoene like Aden Abdulle Osman? Siad Barre is in the same league as Mobutu, Idi Amin, Jerry Rawlings: all men who came to power through coup and when they left power left the country in ruin, while Aden Abdulle Osman is in the league of men like Kwame Nkrumah, Julius Nyerere, Patrice Lumumba etc etc, all men who were beloved when they came to power, and still to this day beloved and admired by their countrymen.

I agree Siad Barre was a dictatorship and Addan Cadde was an infantile, underdeveloped pseudo-democracy which achieved naught and harmed naught. What you consider love, I consider indifference.

Are YOU, however, agreeing the two men men cannot be compared in terms of achievement, which is what this discussion was about to begin with?

Again, if you do not agree, fine! However, stay in the parameters of the debate.

I am going to ask you this once and once more.

How do the three presidents, Siad Barre, Addan Cadde, and Abdirashiid Shermaake, rank in terms of achievement (which is the topic of discussion)?

You have this one chance to turn this from a joke to a legitimate discussion.

[Somaliweyn]

Again Voltage,

Code: Select all

About your comparisons between the different presidents in terms of achievements, tell me what do you consider as an achievement?

The act of turning a country from mediocre nation into a bankrupt nation ripped apart by corruption/nepotism/clannism?

If that's your definition, then by all means Siad Barre is nr1.

---

Either tell us your definition of achievement, or let us continue with the research of the two periods and compare them to each other, then our judgment.

To order them you need first to present their achievements/performance to the people, then rank them from 1 to 3. But claiming he was nr1 and not presenting any sources or analysis to back it up is plain childesh.

So do not derail the topic, and let us present the achievement/failures of the military rule. After that will we proceed to ranking them from 1 to 3.

[Twisted_Logic]

So do not derail the topic, and let us present the achievement/failures of the military rule. After that will we proceed to numbering them from 1 to 3.

That's a methodical analysis the dude is incapable of doing

[Somaliweyn]

So do not derail the topic, and let us present the achievement/failures of the military rule. After that will we proceed to numbering them from 1 to 3.

That's a methodical analysis the dude is incapable of doing

No T-L,

It is a purposeful attempt to derail the topic since we are on the point to investigate the military rule in which the public will be shocked!

He knowes what is about to come, so he wants to derail it by turning it into a childesh argument.

Ofcourse, my judgment of his intellect can be wrong

[Twisted_Logic]

So do not derail the topic, and let us present the achievement/failures of the military rule. After that will we proceed to numbering them from 1 to 3.

That's a methodical analysis the dude is incapable of doing

No T-L,

It is a purposeful attempt to derail the topic since we are on the point to investigate the military rule in which the public will be shocked!

He knowes what is about to come, so he wants to derail it by turning it into a childesh argument.

Ofcourse, my judgment of his intellect can be wrong

I just think that you are too kind

[Voltage]

Twisted, do you feel Somaliweyn is in trouble? Why come back as soon as you left?

Somaliweyn, I will try my hardest not to laugh.

*Time-span of Discussion*

Rebellion: Voltage who do you think of the three presidents (Siad Barre, Abdirashiid Shermake, or Addan Cadde) achieved the most.

Voltage: Easy, Siad Barre is 1, Abdirashiid Ali Shermaake is 2, and Addan Cadde is third and last and this is why.......

Somaliweyn: Wrong Siad Barre is not first on achievement......

Voltage: Really? By all means go ahead starting with your rank and tell us why.

*End of time-span*

We are now in the fifth page of discussions in ANOTHER topic after so much time wasted with anything BUT the topic of discussion and you just NOW ask me for my "definition" of achievement.

Why did you not ask for my definition of achievement when you disagreed with my position that Siad Barre achieved the most? Why now when I forced you to try to start out by ranking the presidents in point you disagreed with me on from the beginning?

You are a joke and you do not have the balls to say Addan Cadde or Abdirashiid are ahead of Siad Barre in terms of accomplishment.

I knew it from the beginning and I know it now.

Let everybody else understand what I have meant.

If I was less intelligent, I would have been easily led by your sorry ass b.ullshit.

[Twisted_Logic]

Voltage,

I think your mind is playing tricks with you Bro. I never left

[Somaliweyn]

Guys lets not derail the topic.

Voltage re-read the disclamair. No need to become emotional or impatient.

I'll start in the next post with the period of military rule under Siad Barre. Afterwards we'll see what the impact of this 21-year rule was on Somalia, i.e on our society, economy, military and politics.

Only after carefully presenting a full picture of the two periods and the behaviour of the rulers in those periods will we proceed to ranking the two periods, and the three presidents.

So lets all be patient and keep the structure of the debate intact.

Do you guys agree on this setting? Cawar, Sadeboi, Rebelling, Shilling, Twisted_logic and all those others quitely reading with us?

[Voltage]

[AbdiWahab252]

Mr. "I need proof and evidence" can't debate his assertion.

[Voltage]

For some people, this seems to be the time where they respond because of the years of humiliation they have suffered under my hands in this forum.

[sadeboi]

Somaliweyn, you have drove this thread into the wrong place, on purpose maybe.

Economic achievements:

It unleashed its first 5 year development plan in 1963.

The plan materiaized to some extent. While ofcourse some of the money ended up in private pockets as result of corruption.

So at mid 1966, a report found that the rate of implementation of the plan was only 25%!

This is the economic achievement you mentioned of the period of Aden Cadde(aun), in which you have accredited him basically no achievements. The first five-year plan did not work and the implementation of it was only 25%. So do you disagree that Aden Cadde (aun) had no economic achivements in his record, just promise on a paper which was not carried out?


You then got into Abdirishad era and you mentioned this:

To make up for delays in implementation, Government launches in 1968 a two-year Short-Term Development Programme.

You said he made a new [two-year] plan and in 1969 his government was toppled bro, and in knowing that, you accredited the early success of the revolutionary governments to this plan. When asked how did the 2-year plan achieve to help the revolutionary government in its early period you replied:

SB,
How else can you explain the fact that the military government that assumed power by coup d'etat saw impressive economic figures as early as 1969 and 1970-71.......the critical first years in which the generals were preoccupied with survival and power plays?

I ask you again, what source do you have to explain how the 2-year plan by Abdirishid helped the revolutionary government economic boast in its first few years of power? Also, I want an answer from you, DURING Abdirishids (aun) reign was there any substantial economic achivements besides that 2-year plan you mentioned that helped AFTER HIS REIGN?