AbdiWahab, what do u want

[Wadaay]

Stupid Nomads

[Digital-Infidelity]

Sadeboi,

Oh wow! What an astute analysis. My world has totally changed after hearing these glorious words of wisdom. SB, you are a perfect example for the wisdom, "empty vessel makes more noise." Your knee jerk double standards are hilarious.

I didn't know that if somebody was in their early twenties, they have full license to construct alternative histories (with no regard for facts), dream up fake arguments and use them in the place of real ones. I love your strategy- we should install it systematically in the place of a school and college system. Let's encourage the young to dream and fantasize big-dream free. Who was responsible for the holocaust? The Hawiye. How many people died on 9/11? 2 Million. What is the capital of Russia? Lafa-Hawiye.

Why bother with facts. We live in imagination land, folks. Lets just go CRAZY.

Hawiye traitors who work with the Ethiopians are embodiment of evil, while Darood traitors who were writing plea letters to the British were guess- this "SMART." Barre Hiraalle was forced to flee by the gun. In other words, the fear of God was placed in him. In military terms, he was routed out. It doesn't matter if he was begged by his clan to leave, the end result would have been the same. I am surprised at how fast you change positions. You and your little brother together with the rest of Darood members have always argued that Al Shabab and the ICU were a Hawiye organization, so why the sudden change of heart? And of course, Abdullahi Yusuf and the rest of the TFG are in a virtual house-arrest getting their prescribed doses of Gabre-style pimp-slapping. But of course, you would simply say, erm, "He is Ballin." I think I speak for every-Hawiye member at SNET when I say; We are just glad that a ruined building that has seen more than its fair share of bullets and mortars is of some use to you. Why NOT discuss the shameful history of your forefathers in inviting European colonizers to Somalia simply to score brownie-points against Hawiye? Because they rain on your parade miya?

You talk of Kenadid so much as a clear example how Darood is noble. This is the same man who invited the Italians into Somalia after the Hawiye routed out the Italians at Lafoole. Again a clear example where your sorry race has settled for brownie-points instead of appreciating the consequences of their actions..

Read Italian Colonialism in Somalia by Robert L. Hess.

''The Italians might well have become discouraged in their search for colonies in East Africa had not a sudden impetus come from a most unexpected quarter- northeastern Somalia.

On December 12, 1888, a delegation from Yusuf Ali, sultan of Obbia, arrived in Zanzibar and requested the protection of Italy.''

He goes on,

''Filonardi recognized the opportunity for Italy to extend its trade and to obtain a foothold in the supposedly promising Somali area at the spontaneous invitation of one of the local rulers''

''On February 8, Yusuf Ali placed his sultanate under Italian protection in return for an annual subsidy of 1,200 Maria thalers''

''On April 7 an agreement was reached (With Osman Mahmud) that was similar and simplicity to that signed by Yusuf Ali''

Page 24-25

You can twitch and wince all you like. The facts won't go away because they scare you. Take baby steps and eventually you'll end up in the real world. 'a scary place to be but the good thing about it is, its not imaginary

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

Kenadid

[sadeboi]

IN THAT SAME BOOK:

Page 65, Chapter Three, Italian Colonialism in Somalia:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... talia3.jpg

"Within ten days he [Italian investigator Sorrentino] had determined that Lafole incident was neither the precursor of a general uprising against the Italians nor an Ethiopian ambush but an isolated case of action by Wadan tribesmen and the tribes of Geladi, who had been SPURRED TO THE ACT BY TWO ARABS FROM MUQDISHO. Upon closer inspection Dulio and Sorrentino discovered that Abu Bakr bin Awod, Filonardi's [Italian commander] interpreter, and a certain Islam bin Muhammad were the two Arabs responsible for INSTIGATING the massacre. THEIR MOTIVE HAD BEEN FEAR OF LOSING THE PROFITABLE POSITION THEY HELD UNDER THE FILONARDI ADMINSTRATION."

How does it feel that you hate Arabs, lakiin forget the history of working for other Somalis, YOUR CLAN LOST SO MANY MEN AND WENT TO TO GET AN ARAB INTERPRETER'S JOB BACK!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... alia44.jpg

In this sources its how mudulood sub-clans SUBMITTED TO THE COLONIALIST and the saddest thing was...the first sub-clan to submit of wacdaan the mahad-moodlheere were perceived as a prestige and head of the clan...THEY WERE LOOKED UP TO BY THEIR CLAN!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... talia5.jpg

Ya Allah, lets look at this, EVEN the Xawaadle, Shidlee, and Mobileen swore allegiance and SUBMITTED!



http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... talia6.jpg

THEY EVEN TAUNTED THE COLONIALIST TO FIGHT THE SAYID AND BIYAMAAL DARAWIISH


And the book says of beesha SADE:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... ed-1-2.jpg

Twisted logic...know what your asking for!

[Son_of_Somalia]

AW the clown started this stupid feud between us.

What does he get from dividing the somali people, does AW work for Ethiopia? It seems like it.

Their is no such thing as Hawiyanism, their never has been.

Fact is that Hawiya are afraid of each other more than other clans.

They fought each other heavily and killed fighting each other more than any other clan.

From my Knowledge the problems of somalia arise from many corners.

I am fully on the side of sadeboi on this one He has made alot of good points, however i disagree with him on the issue of Barre Hiirale.

AW seems to be a clown
-He supported the warlords
-He turned against the TNG of abdiqassim
-He supported the TFG
-He fought the UIC alongside the ethiopians

AW you are like a virus amongst us, how you laugh at our divison makes me sick.

Darood this Darood that, WTF????

This is 2008 not 1991, move on

These people are sick

[sadeboi]

Galia..some people (twisted_logic...) do not get that this was started by abdiwhab and xidigow...if we are progressive thinkers then we would have no problem..lakiin la orad hawiye can only rule and Darood ruined Somalia..then we will all think in the qabiilistic way and lets see who wins the debate!

[Addoow]

in puntland you always hear the saying"itoobiya walaalo beynu nahay maadaama ay hawiyihii noo qabatay ama noo laysay"

[Digital-Infidelity]

Sadeboi,

awwww, I have obviously touched a raw nerve. There there SB. Please don't cry

No-where did I say that Hawiye sub-clans fighting against the Italians had the means to defeat a major European power armed with the latest weapons and tactics at the time, nor did I say that they defeated the Italians. Yes, they did win some crucial battles, and even killed the Italian explorer who advocated for the colonization of East Africa Antonio Cecchi. This was expected. The Hawiye subclans were engaged in a mismatched battle and only a call from heaven could have saved them. However, under the extreme situation they were in, they fought hard and luck was not on their side. Societies more power full then Hawiye have lost to the European colonizers. This is not the topic of our discussion. You made a retarded claim that Darood has always fought for Somalia and I showed you how retarded your claim was.

I provided you the famous case when your very own Marehan elders were willing to bend over for the British if it meant scoring brownie-points against Hawiye clans. I also provided the other famous case when your beloved Kenadid and his people acted as willing prostitutes for the Italians if it meant gaining an upper-hand against certain Hawiye subclans. There is no honor in that.

The fact is that this topic was about "Darood fighting" for Somalia while Hawiye would not and your case has been routed out so you can't do better than to change the whole theme and focus on how Hawiye subclans lost a war that they could not possibly win. Secondly, in this thread, you and other Darood members express outrage that such criticism of Darood's dark past are being discussed and routinely try to make comparisons with Hawiye to make your-selves feel better. If you dish it out, you better be willing to take it. That's where your hypocrisy is so painfully exposed- your love for criticizing Hawiye is very well-known but you scream in pain when your forefathers shame is revealed. So, THAT is the difference and you know it very well. Your pretense of ignorance achieves nothing. To you traitorship is only bad when a Hawiye warlord engages in it but is completely OK when a Darood clan does the same on a more serious case.

Again, the hypocrisy is obvious- your "outrage" isn't against the crime of Hawiye chiefs accepting defeat at the hands of the Italians (you have yet to condemn the political prostitution of your Marehan forefathers BTW) but only against these sad facts about Hawiye being mentioned. The direction of the discussion is uncomfortable to you because you cant brush away facts about your sorry race anymore.

SOMALI WANT TO FIGHT

The New York Times, pg. 8

Nov 22, 1914



Jubaland Chiefs Send Plea to England to Join the Army



London, Nov. 10 -the London Times has received from a correspondent a copy of a petition signed by the principal Somali chiefs in Jubaland, asking that they be allowed to fight for England. The document is as follows:



To His Highness the Governor,

Through the Hakim of Jubaland



Salaams, yea, many salaams, with God's mercy, blessing, and peace. After Salaams,



We, the Somali of Jubaland, both Herti and Ogaden, comprising all the tribes and including the Maghaubul, but not including the [Tolomooge] Ogaden, who live in Biskaya and Tanaland and the Merehan, desire humbly to address you.



In former days the Somali have fought against the Government. Even lately the Marehan have fought against the Government. Now we have heard that the German Government have declared war on the English government. Behold, our "fitna" against the English Government is finished. As the Monsoon wind drives the sand hills of our coast into new forms, so does this this news of German evil-doing drive our hearts and spears into the service of the English Government. The Jubaland Somali are with the English Government. Daily in our mosques we pray for the success of the English armies. Day is as night and night is as day with us until we hear that the English are victorious. God knows the right. He will help the right. We have heard that the Indian Askaris have been sent to fight for us in Europe. Humbly we ask why should not the Somali fight for England also. We beg the Government to allow our warriors to show their loyalty. In former days the Somali tribes made fitna against each other. Even now it is so: it is our custom; yet with the Government against the Germans we are as one, ourselves, our warriors, our women, and our children. By God it is so.



A few days ago many troops of the military left this country to eat up the Germans who have invaded our country in Africa. May God prosper them. Yet, Oh Hakim, with all humbleness we desire to beg of the Government to allow our sons and warriors to take part in this great war against the German evildoer. They are ready. They are eager. Grant them the boon. God and Mohammed is with us all.



If Government wish to take away all the troops and police from Jubaland, it is good. We pledge ourselves to act as true Government askaries until they return.



We humbly beg that this our letter may be placed at the feet of our King and Emperor, who lives in England, in token of our loyalty and our prayers.

You come from a race that would gladly give away their daughters if it means "getting back" at Hawiye.

A Tear For Somalia By Douglas Collins

We returned to Alula, both angry, and the doubt and suspicion grew until like the kherif outside, they screamed through my tortured mind that my love meant nothing to her, that she really loved Sheik Abdurraham Mursal's son and that she was just a tool of her father, the Sultan, and was merely pretending a love of make-believe in order to further the ends of her tribe.

http://beenaywaarun.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... ll-by.html

This is the actual drawing by D Collins of Amina



The reality can only be understood when one sees it in a broader perspective. Its not my problem that this exposes the warts of your sorry race.

[sadeboi]

Twisted, lets stay away from emotional outbursts and think clearly! Your eagerly looking for an exit and this is evident by your second-grade reply! I want you to take your time reading the sources and my reply and come back with thought-out and factual rebuttals!

We, the Somali of Jubaland, both Herti and Ogaden, comprising all the tribes and including the Maghaubul, but not including the [Tolomooge] Ogaden, who live in Biskaya and Tanaland and the Merehan, desire humbly to address you.

If you took your time to actually read this statement that has been debunked over and over again you would notice it say NOT INCLUDING the Tolomooge Ogaden and the Marehan! Clearly the placement of the commas should have been a hint and would have helped you save face!

Furthermore, in the source that I posted the Hawiye clan did engage in battles with the colonialist, however it clearly states the reasons that lead to the battles against the colonialist, and mind you it was not a resistance against colonialism like the campaigns of Sayid Maxamed Cabdulle Xasan and darawiish, the Marexaan in Jubbaland, and the biyaamaal:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... talia3.jpg

It clearly states in the underline part, that the Lafoole battle was instigated by two Arab man and I quote from the book, "Within ten days he [Italian investigator Sorrentino] had determined that Lafole incident was neither the precursor of a general uprising against the Italians nor an Ethiopian ambush but an isolated case of action by Wadan tribesmen and the tribes of Geladi, who had been SPURRED TO THE ACT BY TWO ARABS FROM MUQDISHO." The reason the two Arab men instigated this battle was, and again I quote from the book, "THEIR MOTIVE HAD BEEN FEAR OF LOSING THE PROFITABLE POSITION THEY HELD UNDER THE FILONARDI ADMINSTRATION."


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... alia44.jpg

In this source, its clearly shows how Mahad-Moodheere of the Wacdan submitted to Italian rule in 1899 and were given petty officer jobs, its was not long before the rest of wacdan submitted to the foreign occupiers.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... talia5.jpg

In this source, and on the bottom of the page where I boxed, it clearly explains how the Shidle Hawiye, Xawaadle, and Mobileen all followed the route of the Wacdan and submitted to the colonialist.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... talia6.jpg

Furthermore, on the next page it shows that not only did those Hawiye clans gladly submitted to the colonialist, but also petitioned for the Italians to go inland into Somalia! And ever more sadly, they taunted the colonialist to fight the resistance of the biyamaal and dervishes!

So in conclusion, and this is nothing of my own thinking but its in the book, "Italian Colonialism in Somalia," that you also used. That the Hawiye battles against the Italians in Lafoole was not a resistance against colonialism, but the work of two persuasive Arab men who were bitter about the loss of their job and received help from willing Hawiye men. The Hawiye clans that consist of Wacdaan, Mobileen, Hawadle, and Shiidle all submitted to the colonialist and actually worked with and persuaded the colonialist to fight the real resistance, the Biyamaal and Darawiish resistance in that area, and to further move in to the inland and colonize more of Somalia! None of what I have said is of my thinking, but its what presented in the sources, like I have informed you before, no emotional rants address these points!

[Addoow]

shiidle is hawiye

[Xamud.]

Sadeboi KOED the entire kamashle crew You have no history! you history started in 1990 and ended the day you let Abdulahi Yusuf in.

[Digital-Infidelity]

Sadeboi,

You are totally retarded man. You made a stupid claim and when your bubbles were burst, you were reduced to rant about Hawiye sub-clans losing to the Italians. Let me help you retrace how this whole conversation started:

SB: "From the Sayid Cabdulle Hassan to the Sultan Maxamoud Dhoore colonialism was defended against by Darood men!"

D-I: Posts the famous cases where Darood clans have gladly went to bed with European Colonizers just to score a parity with Hawiye.

SB: FAILS to refute my assertions and dances around in circle and starts quoting himself over and over again about how Hawiye lost to the Italian colonizers.

It's really funny. You giving one example of Hawiye subclans losing to the colonizers doesn't change the facts. The Darood subclans have professionally bended-over for the Italian and British Colonizers if it meant scoring brownie-points against Hawiye. The incidents were Darood clans have collaborated with the colonizers is not an isolated incident like the example you keep mentioning where Hawiye subclans "the Italians to go further inland into Somalia." In the history of the Darood, it is the norm.

Your attempt to generalize a serious issues as "Darood Fought For Somalia" shows much more about your mentality, actually. Instances where Darood clans prostituted for the Colonizers writing plea letters and marrying their daughters off to the occupation officers simply to score brownie-points is unprecedented in Somali History and it is because of this reality we call you the fifth column of Somalia. You have collaborated with every single occupying power in Somalia from the Italians to the British and to the Ethiopians.

Seriously SB, you REALLY have to read the section on grammar usage in your college handbook or else ask a teacher to sit you down and give you an extended lecture on it (I am guessing its going to take quite some-time for the message to sink through though)

The second paragraph of the plea letter clearly starts with:

"In former days the Somali have fought against the Government. Even lately the Marehan have fought against the Government. Now we have heard that the German Government have declared war on the English government. Behold, our "fitna" against the English Government is finished.."


This is a sincere advice: read things as they are and not how you want them to sound. It can land you in a world of academic trouble if you don't understand what basic comprehension means and you clearly don't.

The point remains despite your attempts to escape from it.

So again, DEFEND or explain to me why your clan prostituted for the colonizers over and over again. Tell me why culture dictates that one should marry their daughters to the occupiers simply to score brownie-points against Hawiye? I am interested in your answers. NOT on a stupid tirade on how Hawiye lost to the colonizers.

Read Italian Colonialism in Somalia by Robert L. Hess.

Quote:
''The Italians might well have become discouraged in their search for colonies in East Africa had not a sudden impetus come from a most unexpected quarter- northeastern Somalia.

On December 12, 1888, a delegation from Yusuf Ali, sultan of Obbia, arrived in Zanzibar and requested the protection of Italy.''

He goes on,

''Filonardi recognized the opportunity for Italy to extend its trade and to obtain a foothold in the supposedly promising Somali area at the spontaneous invitation of one of the local rulers''

''On February 8, Yusuf Ali placed his sultanate under Italian protection in return for an annual subsidy of 1,200 Maria thalers''

''On April 7 an agreement was reached (With Osman Mahmud) that was similar and simplicity to that signed by Yusuf Ali''

Page 24-25

DEFEND THIS

Quote:
A Tear For Somalia By Douglas Collins

We returned to Alula, both angry, and the doubt and suspicion grew until like the kherif outside, they screamed through my tortured mind that my love meant nothing to her, that she really loved Sheik Abdurraham Mursal's son and that she was just a tool of her father, the Sultan, and was merely pretending a love of make-believe in order to further the ends of her tribe.

http://beenaywaarun.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... ll-by.html

[Digital-Infidelity]

Sadeboi KOED the entire kamashle crew You have no history! you history started in 1990 and ended the day you let Abdulahi Yusuf in.

Oh yea? MOAN HARDER

[sadeboi]

Digitial, I take it you can not defend those hawiyes! Quit the emotional rants!

One question thou... when did Hawiyes ever fought against colonialist for the sole reason to defend the land/people against them?

There is a reason why I brought up the lafoole incident is because I knew that would be your only example of hawiye resistance against colonial rule!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that we have debunked the whole notion of hawiye playing a role in the aggression against colonialist! I will now present the arguments brought forth by you against the Marexaan clan, and the Darood clan at large! Again, I must
emphasis on the need for carefully reading and comprehension, just as in the last post were you used a source and thought it said Marehan promised to work with the British and you failed to notice the placement of the commas proved other wise, now again, due to your lack of reading carefully you posted this statement:

"In former days the Somali have fought against the Government. Even lately the Marehan have fought against the Government. Now we have heard that the German Government have declared war on the English government. Behold, our "fitna" against the English Government is finished.."

Now, what I fail to see is how this proves Marexaan worked with colonialist when they actually FOUGHT against them evident or due to your lack of knowledge you assume that Marexaan did not fight against the British before 1914 when the article was published? I fail to see what this quote proves for you!


http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... ngClan.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... alions.jpg

http://marehansade.blogspot.com/2008/09 ... sacre.html

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3096/marehan2od7.png

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5432/hassanor1.png

In the volume, Great Britain Army Chronicles, it is written that:

"The Rer Hassan are the orginal inhabitants. The Isak are further divided into four sections, three of which are called Galti which means strangers, they having come into the country from the north-east during the last six or seven years, in some cases having been with the Mullah. They are typical fighting Somalis and the majority of them have ponies and rifles. Numbers of course are very difficult to obtain and are quite unreliable, but probably the Rer Hassan could put 4000 men into the field and the Galti about 9000, of whom the Rer Farah Ugas numbered nearly half." [5]


As a result of their unwavering resistance against the British, the British decided to relinguish Jubbaland to Italian Somaliland instead of Kenya.

George L. Simpson, Jr. writes:

"More importantly, this inability to control the Marehan illustrated just how little control the colonial state exercised on the northeast frontier. This example of Somali resistance certainly would make the British think twice about imposing their dictates in the northeast for some years to come. Indeed, the presence of so-called recalcitrant Somalis there had much to do with the nature of the cession of Jubaland to Italy in 1925" [6]


Sources:
[1] Military History of East and Central Africa
[2] The Impact of Mohammad Abdille Hassan
[3] The Times, 1913
[4] The Times, 1914
[5] Great Britain Army Chronicles
[6] George L. Simpson, Jr.

Conclusion , you cannot state, off course with source, any resistance from the Hawiye clan against colonial powers nor can you refute the submission of numerous Hawiye clan to the colonialist! You have yet to show any source whereby Marexaan submitted to colonialist, and I presented a small amount of source showcasing the resistance of Marexaan which is far greater then Hawiye clan who have none. Mind you, this is not even beesh Darood, nor are the likes of Sayid Abdulle Xasan, Cali-dhuux, and the Darawiish who started all of this mentioned!

[sadeboi]

First and foremost, showcase the actual source for the Amiina story! Btw, every askari did not write a book, however Somali oral history shows that the abgaal women made up the largest amount of Somali concubines and this is something no one will deny, nonetheless a hoe is a hoe. What does have to do with history? I feel to see how that ties to Darood, what one women slept with a gaal? How many abgaal women did? Such silly arguments!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/ ... alia44.jpg

Now, as I have presented on my earlier post and its indicated in the source above, the Wacdaan, Xawaadle, and Mobileen clans SUBMITTED to the Italians and they had to bring forth FORTY HOSTAGES AS SIGN OF SUBMISSION .


Lets look at the full paragraph of Kenadiiid, Italian Colonialism in Somalia, page 25:

The Italians might well have become discouraged in their search for colonies in East Africa had not a sudden impetus come from a most unexpected quarter- northeastern Somalia.

On December 12, 1888, a delegation from Yusuf Ali, sultan of Obbia, arrived in Zanzibar and requested the protection of Italy.

The immediate background of the request was a dispute between Yusuf Ali and the sultan of Zanzibar over the status of the little village of Mruti, not from from the Zanzibar enclave at Warshiekh.

Filonardi recognized the opportunity for Italy to extend its trade and to obtain a foothold in the supposedly promising Somali area at the spontaneous invitation of one of the local rulers.

.....

On February 8, Yusuf Ali placed his Sultanate under Italian Protection in for an annual subsidy of 1,200 Maria Theresa thalers.

Filonardi, who was popular among the Somali, remained in Obbia for several days to convince them that their suldan had sold his land to Italy.

Final words: one group were forced to submit and show submission by handing labor slaves essentially to the Italians. While the other, Kenadiid, had a problem and used the Italians to attain the village he was fighting for against sultan of Zanzibar, he was paid well for the trade he had with the Italians, and the people he governed had to be calmed down and informed that their land was not sold but that a cooperation just took place, this reaction is different the wacdaan reaction who saw Italian Askaris as prestige of the clan. Nonetheless, both had relationships with the Italians, one is described as SUBMISSION while the other a COOPERATION by the same author!