I dare 2 say Ahmed Gurey was not Somali

[LastREALSomali]

1. Why is it important if axmed gurey was somali, the political structure was not ethnic based at that time.

Because we're Somali stupid.

and BTW Ahmad Gurey was Dulbahante just like Siad Abdullahi Hassan

2 greatest men in Somali history and both from the most honorable clan ever

[Advo]

1. Why is it important if axmed gurey was somali, the political structure was not ethnic based at that time.

Because we're Somali stupid.

and BTW Ahmad Gurey was Dulbahante just like Siad Abdullahi Hassan

2 greatest men in Somali history and both from the most honorable clan ever

forreal, what subclan was he?

[Shirib]

1. Why is it important if axmed gurey was somali, the political structure was not ethnic based at that time.

Because we're Somali stupid.

and BTW Ahmad Gurey was Dulbahante just like Siad Abdullahi Hassan

2 greatest men in Somali history and both from the most honorable clan ever

forreal, what subclan was he?

Ala xaasidsanidaa

[Advo]

I Bet he doesnt know that Siyad Abdella Hassan was from the Dhulbahante sub clan Garaad Absame Jamac Siyaad

[Voltage]

Guryasame, there is fact and then there is opinion.


Advo and Shirib, LastReal is a Habeshi.

[LastREALSomali]

I Bet he doesnt know that Siyad Abdella Hassan was from the Dhulbahante sub clan Garaad Absame Jamac Siyaad

I didn't know that but thats great. I know my mom is Jamac Siyaad, but I don't know about whether she's Garaad Absame. My mom was never big on the clan shit.

But I know my pops side is Maxamuud Garaad.

[LastREALSomali]

Guryasame, there is fact and then there is opinion.


Advo and Shirib, LastReal is a Habeshi.

Thank goodness my parents didn't instill this tribalism crap in me when I was young but now when I'm older its cool to see how great my clan is.

[Shirib]

I Bet he doesnt know that Siyad Abdella Hassan was from the Dhulbahante sub clan Garaad Absame Jamac Siyaad

I didn't know that but thats great. I know my mom is Jamac Siyaad, but I don't know about whether she's Garaad Absame. My mom was never big on the clan shit.

But I know my pops side is Maxamuud Garaad.

war your the man where have u been this whole time

[guryasame]

Voltage:

What is ur point? So what is a fact and what is an opinion? Don't give me some vague blanket statement andd don't be shy to say what u mean.

[Twisted_Logic]

Voltage,

There is no way one can convincingly prove that Ahmed Gurey was Somali or that Emir Nur was Marehan. In fact, even the article by Harvel Sebastian that appeared in the Dictionary of African historical biography is quite vague. For example he never reveals how he reached the conclusion that Nur Ibn Mujahid was Marehan. The citations he uses that supplement the article Do Not prove that he was. They simple provide other information about the man NOT his clan Affiliation. In fact I could not even find any other article or book this Harvel Sebastian guy has Ever written except the one entry that appeared in the Dictionary of African Historical Biography. I am treating this as a Major suspect.

Back to the discussion:

The Marehan at the time of Ahmed Gurey were led not by Emir Nur but by a chief by the name Hirabu bin Goita Tedros bin Adam.

Page 42

''He sent (another messenger) to the tribe of Marraihan whose chieftain was Hirabu bin Goita Tedros bin Adam*, and he also sent (messengers) to the outlying Provinces to spur them on to the jihad, for God, and in the way of the Most High God.


*: (160) Goita or Goyta, the Tegrenya for 'master' or 'lord', Francesco da Bassano, Vocabolario tigray-italiano, col.883, seems to have been sometimes used as a title and sometimes as a personal name.

''Then Hirabu the chieftain of the Somali tribe of Marraihan, killed one of the equerries of the sultan 'Umar Din when he was in Nageb. The imam heard about what Hirabu had done, and he said to the Sultan 'Umar Din, 'This Somali has acted treacherously towards you and killed your equerry.' So the imam, and the sultan with him, prepared himself for an expedition and set out and arrived at the country of the Somalis, as far as Kidad. Hirabu. meantime, had fled and was hiding in his own country.The imam asked the sultan, 'What shall we do now? I am going to send for him to hand over the horses, and to pay the blood-money. If he does so, then all is well: if he does not, then I shall go against him, while you go back to your country.' So the imam sent to Hirabu to hand over the horses, and to pay the blood-money to some sharifs of the family of Ba' Alawi, the Husainites, may God bless us through their means."

This paragraph alone proves the fact that Ahmed Gurey could Not be Marehan as you have claimed.

Also Hirabu was NOT an Emir of all Somalis as you have once claimed. You might have taken it out of context. This is the complete incident.

''A tribe called Girri then came to the imam. A dispute had arisen between them and their companions in another tribe called the Marraihan whose emir was called Hirabu, so the imam Ahmed sent a message to Hirabu emir of the Somalis, to make peace between them.''

Another reference that proves that Ahmed Gurey could Not be Somali:

''Now, having finished this, let us return to the earlier narrative, and look at what happened during the Somali campaign.When news of the imam's leaving for the outlying provinces of Abyssinia reached them, a certain person, by name Hirabu, a chief of one of the Somali tribes called Marraihan, had arrived half-way along the route to the country of Harar. After verifying the departure of the imam to the land of Abbyssinia, he doubled back and returned to his own country.''

Also it is clear that Matan person in question was NOT Marehan but rather the cheif of the Girri

''He also sent (a messenger) to the tribe of Girri which was the tribe whose leader and chieftain was Mattan bin Utman bin Kaled, the Somali, his brother-in-law*

* 158) may also mean 'the imam's son-in-law' See supra note 32. We know that the imam was only twenty-one when he defeated the patrician Degalhan (see p.27 supra) and that Mattan married his sister Fardusa (see p.44 infra).

So, it is quite evident that Imam Ahmed Gurey's "son-in-law/ brother-in-law" was Not Marehan but Girri.

''The army camped around the city (Harar; my own barracks), with each tribe being kept apart from the others. The tribe of the Marraihan was, however, wavering. Their chieftain was a man fond of intrigue and procrastination. Extremely wily, he loved double-dealing and swindles. The imam organised some of his soldiers and went to the Marraihan and confronted Hirabu and his tribe and said to him: 'Why are you lagging behind in coming on the jihad? Hirabu complained about his plight, and excused himself on the grounds of his poverty-stricken state.

The imam accepted his excuse, and then said to him: 'But no good will come to you from just wishing (that things will improve). Thereupon Hirabu appointed his nephew to command the Marraihan and they rallied around the imam -ninety cavalry and more than seven-hundred footsoldiers- with Hirabu bringing up the rear. The imam went back to his city of Harar, taking the tribe of Marraihan with him.''

Lastly, many Somali clans took part in the campaign INCLUDING Hawiye clans

''At this moment the companions of the imam screamed out, saying, 'The infidels have tricked us; they are after the livestock,' whereupon the imam split his forces into two divisions: one he entrusted to Garad Ahmusa, composed of the Somali spearmen of the Marraihan, the Gorgorah and the Hawiya; around one-thousand of them from among the most famous spearmen. And from the soldiers bearing shields, the same number.

[James Dahl]

Interesting research Twisted_Logic.
The reference to the Ba'Alawi is very interesting, because there is a famous Ba'Alawi family in Somalia, the Hasan al-Kawayni, who is also the great-grandfather of Hajji Aliyye, the Silte patriarch.
The reference to Hawiye and Gurgure can be none other than Maxamed Gorgaate Hawiye (today called Midgan or Madhibaan) and the Cali Madaweyne Dir.

Not only were Maxamed Gorgaate once a great clan, they even fought alongside Ahmed ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi. Madhibaan need to be given more respect...

[Goljano Lion]

Interesting research Twisted_Logic.
The reference to the Ba'Alawi is very interesting, because there is a famous Ba'Alawi family in Somalia, the Hasan al-Kawayni, who is also the great-grandfather of Hajji Aliyye, the Silte patriarch.
The reference to Hawiye and Gurgure can be none other than Maxamed Gorgaate Hawiye (today called Midgan or Madhibaan) and the Cali Madaweyne Dir.

Not only were Maxamed Gorgaate once a great clan, they even fought alongside Ahmed ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi. Madhibaan need to be given more respect...

Dude where do come up with these conclusions horta

[James Dahl]

Interesting research Twisted_Logic.
The reference to the Ba'Alawi is very interesting, because there is a famous Ba'Alawi family in Somalia, the Hasan al-Kawayni, who is also the great-grandfather of Hajji Aliyye, the Silte patriarch.
The reference to Hawiye and Gurgure can be none other than Maxamed Gorgaate Hawiye (today called Midgan or Madhibaan) and the Cali Madaweyne Dir.

Not only were Maxamed Gorgaate once a great clan, they even fought alongside Ahmed ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi. Madhibaan need to be given more respect...

Dude where do come up with these conclusions horta

What other Hawiye clan could he be referring to? The others lived far too far away to join his Jihad, and anyways lived under Ajuuraan dominion and were busy fighting the Portuguese.

[guryasame]

Twisted,

Good comments, harvel sources could have been the same as you have qouted, he was likely another careless, superficial european satisfied with his own limited understanding even when the facts are not complicated.

[Twisted_Logic]

James,

There are historical documents proving Hawiye presence as far as Harar. They are mentioned to be Karanle Hawiye. I can dig it up for you if you are really interested.