Mengistu Haile Mariam Vs. MSB

[luis1]

But Wikipedia says something different.

Wikipedia says:Cubans and ethiopians destroyed Somali Army and WSLF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogaden_War

[b]Following the withdrawal of the SNA, the WSLF continued their insurgency. By May 1980, the rebels, with the assistance of a small number of SNA soldiers who continued to help the guerilla war, controlled a substantial region of the Ogaden. However by 1981 the insurgents were reduced to sporadic hit-and-run attacks and were finally defeated.

The Ogaden War weakened the Somali military. Almost one-third of the regular SNA soldiers, three-eighths of the armored units and half of the Somali Air Force (SAF) were lost. [/b]

Just answer me this question:Why nobody can find on Internet somali sources which support your point of view?

Let me show you somali sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Air_Corps

[b]At first the SAF was able to provide some close air support, but by the time the Somali invasion was halted, the SAF lost momentum. The SAF was not able to win air superiority, and shortly after, the Somali army was defeated and driven out of the Ogaden at the end of 1978. Tensions remained, however, and some three years later the conflict rekindled for another round of Ethiopian-Somali bloodshed. By this time the SAF had degraded to the extent that it played no significant role.[/b]

http://www.macalester.edu/international ... cupine.pdf

[b]By mid-1977, with the Ethiopian regime of Col. Mengistu still reeling from gruesome internal power struggles, Somali forces in combination with guerillas of the Western Somali Liberation Front (WSLF) mounted a surprise and initially successful attack on the Somali-inhabited region of Ethiopia. They captured almost all of the Ogaden, except the three large cities of Jigjiga, Harar, and Dire Dawa. By early 1978, the Soviets had shifted their allegiance to Ethiopia. Together with Cuban and South Yemeni troops and new Soviet weapons, the Ethiopians counterattacked. Within a short time, the Somalis were decimated and then compelled to withdraw. By all accounts, the cost was enormous[/b]

http://wardheernews.com/Articles_06/may ... bdoon.html

If Somalia won the war,why Ahmed Samantar and Galaydh(somalis)say it was a defeat?

[luis1]

Another somali source:

http://www.jaallesiyaad.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=82

[luis1]

rabanam:

luis1, Wikipedia isn't false, and your argument is weak. Two parts fought. One part suffered more losses; Ethiopia/Cuba/Russia. The other part suffered less losses; Somalia. Therefore, Somalia won.

You look like a child,Wikipedia says Somalia was expelled from Ogaden in 1978,I dont care if cubans or ethiopians lost 1.000 or 1.000.000 men at the end we expelled you from Ogaden.

The other part suffered less losses; Somalia. Therefore, Somalia won

Are you historian or an idiot?,that answer doenst make any sense Soviet Union lost 20.000.000 of men in WWII and Germany lost 6.000.000 and Germany won the war?
Somalia lost because it was expelled from Ogaden and WSLF was destroyed,every somali historians:Hussein Adam,Ali Jimale,Said Samantar,Galaydh and Abdi Samantar agree with me.

Have you read these authors?

Please find me somali sources on web which say Somalia won the war.

[rabanam]

luis1, the way I see it, war is just like a boxing match. The boxer who scores the most points wins. The boxer who scores the least points loses. Here, we are discussing the 1978 war, yet you're injecting events that happened in 1980. You're also injecting the personal opinions of Ahmed Samantar and Galaydh, which aren't relevant to the discussion. You don't see me injecting the discussion with the personal opinions of anyone, neither you see me injecting with other dates like 1980. I presented you raw data relating to the casualties of the 1978 war. The data points out that Ethiopia and its allies suffered far more casualties and arms/weapons destroyed than Somalia. I didn't write that data; historians did, and it's well documented in other respected sites. Simply put, Somalia won because it suffered less casualties and arms/weapons destroyed. Ethiopia and its allies lost because it suffered more casualties and arms/weapons destroyed. luis1, I know the truth that Somalia won is very bitter for you, but there's no need to resort to ad hominem.

[luis1]

So according you Rusia lost the WWII and Germnay won the WWII,because Germany lost less men than Rusia.

Man are you really an idiot dont you see that you win or lost a war not because the casualties,you win a war if you achieve your political and military goals,Cuba and Ethiopia achieved them.

1.Somali Army was destroyed and WSLF was destroyed.

Simply put, Somalia won because it suffered less casualties and arms/weapons destroyed. Ethiopia and its allies lost because it suffered more casualties and arms/weapons destroyed.

But w expelled Somalia from Ogaden,we dont care if we lose millions of men,we are like Soviet Union,we want to win the war and we did it.

False Somalia lost almost one-third of the regular SNA soldiers, three-eighths of the armored units and half of the Somali Air Force (SAF) were lost

Huge casualties and at the end Somalia could not conquer the Ogaden.

You're also injecting the personal opinions of Ahmed Samantar and Galaydh, which aren't relevant to the discussion.

So the opinions of somali experts about Ogaden War are not important,you are really funny,the opinion of experts are not important in this war,perhaps your opinion is the only important here.

The expected Ethiopian-Cuban attack occurred in early February. However, it was accompanied by a second attack that the Somalis were not expecting. A column of Ethiopian and Cuban troops crossed northeast into the highlands between Jijiga and the border with Somalia, bypassing the SNA-WSLF force defending the Marda Pass. The attackers were thus able to assault from two directions in a "pincer" action, allowing the re-capturing of Jijiga in only two days while killing 3,000 defenders. The Somali defense collapsed and every major Ethiopian town was recaptured in the following weeks. Recognizing that his position was untenable, Siad Barre ordered the SNA to retreat back into Somalia on 9 March 1978. The last significant Somali unit left Ethiopia on 15 March 1978, marking the end of the war.

Following the withdrawal of the SNA, the WSLF continued their insurgency. By May 1980, the rebels, with the assistance of a small number of SNA soldiers who continued to help the guerilla war, controlled a substantial region of the Ogaden. However by 1981 the insurgents were reduced to sporadic hit-and-run attacks and were finally defeated

The article is very clear:

The Somali defense collapsed and every major Ethiopian town was recaptured in the following weeks. Recognizing that his position was untenable, Siad Barre ordered the SNA to retreat back into Somalia on 9 March 1978. The last significant Somali unit left Ethiopia on 15 March 1978, marking the end of the war.

Following the withdrawal of the SNA, the WSLF continued their insurgency. By May 1980, the rebels, with the assistance of a small number of SNA soldiers who continued to help the guerilla war, controlled a substantial region of the Ogaden. However by 1981 the insurgents were reduced to sporadic hit-and-run attacks and were finally defeated[/b]

His position was untenable,very clear.

[yawle]

Mengistu was a focking murderer but he was a nationalist at that. The man killed people mostly his opponents and ruled with iron fist but he never destroyed a single Ethiopian city. And also he left the country with some dignity and went into exile without organising an armed rebellion against the new rulers.

Afwayne on his part was a murderours dictator who not only distroyed Somali cities but also turned the Somali politics into clan coffee shop and pitted local clans against one another. Eventhough he was chased out of Mogadishu and he had no chance of ever coming back to Mogadishu, this dictator tried to organise an armed Daarood resistance to retake power. The motherfocker was the worse kind of dictators.

[luis1]

Rabanam:luis1, I know the truth that Somalia won is very bitter for you, but there's no need to resort to ad hominem.

Lolo,If you won the war,why all somali authors,webs and articles about this war agree with me?

Why nobody can find 1 somali source which say Somalia won the war.

Even here everybody agrees with me.

Please find me one source,because if you won the war,all somalis must be agree with you.But in all somali webs everybody says Somalia lost the war.

I am happy for that.

[luis1]

Find me one somali source or book which say Somalia won the war.

I will be waiting for your source.

[Voltage]

Yawle, the Derg killed half a million especially during the take over when all people with skill were hunted and shot. Siad Barre fought rebels seeking support from the outside, Menguste declared war on his nation. Maybe you should try talking to an Ethiopian whose family fled because his father could write?

Luis is the most hard headed and stubborn creature out there. People are wasting their time on this kuubo naas dheer.

[rabanam]

luis1, all I can add is, in 1978, a superpower with the best arms/weapons fought with Cuba and Ethiopia against Somalia. Somalia had no Americans or others to help it. Yet, Somalia won by killing more and destroying more arms/weapons, tanks, etc than it lost. The numbers do not lie. I know the truth is very bitter for you. But, understand I'm not repetitive like you, so you can go on repeating what you repeated over and over. At the end of the day, the numbers prove Somalia won.

[Voltage]

What is the difference between Somalia and Ethiopia? Menguste Haile Mariam and Siyad Barre were both military rulers. In fact Somalia had not even seen the likes of the Derg. Hell no nation in Africa witnessed what Ethiopia witnessed under the Red Terror of the Derg.

And even so, Menguste Haile Marriam and Siad Barre were overthrown in the same year and both sought asylum in other African nations, one Nigeria and the other Zimbabwe where he still resides.

Siad Barre did not even fight in Muqdisho but left it peacefully (only for the two USC factions to destroy it beyond repair) while Menguste was forcefully uprooted from Addis Ababa by force:

Yet Ethiopia exists, is a power in Africa, and was recently occupying Somalia.

The only difference between the nations those two leaders controlled were the people. Ethiopians are people who have known governance and appreciate it while Somalis are neanderthals masquerading as modern people.

Rebels surround Ethiopia airport // Fighting may strand foreigners in Addis Ababa

ADDIS ABABA Rebels of the Ethiopian People's Revolutionary Democratic Front claimed Sunday to have surrounded Addis Ababa International Airport, less than five miles east of the city.

The announcement was broadcast over rebel radio after heavy gunfire was heard from the direction of the airport. The broadcast warned air carriers not to try to land at the airport.

The warning is certain to strand many of the hundreds of foreign residents here who have been leaving the country in recent days as rebel forces closed in on this capital city. The country's military forces have collapsed.

The insurgents' claim to have surrounded the airport, if true, puts the rebels at the gates of the ...

At about 5.30am yesterday, convoys of tanks and armoured vehicles carrying troops swarmed into the centre of Addis Ababa from all directions. They climbed the hill towards the presidential palace where only four hours earlier government tanks were seen taking up defensive positions.

A few minutes later the people of Addis Ababa were woken by the first heavy cannon fire from the rebel tanks. It was followed by a series of loud explosions as an ammunition store inside the palace compound was hit. Flames leapt 30ft into the air behind a line of eucalyptus trees which shield the palace from the public eye.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/1 ... thearchive

[luis1]

rabanam:May you show me your sources which prove Somalia won the war?

You say Yet, Somalia won by killing more and destroying more arms/weapons, tanks, etc than it lost. The numbers do not lie. I know the truth is very bitter for you.

Dont you see Cuba and Ethiopia could lose many tanks and planes because Soviet Union sent to us many more,we dont care our casualties at the end,we expelled Somalia from Ogaden.

Wikipedia says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogaden_War

The expected Ethiopian-Cuban attack occurred in early February. However, it was accompanied by a second attack that the Somalis were not expecting. A column of Ethiopian and Cuban troops crossed northeast into the highlands between Jijiga and the border with Somalia, bypassing the SNA-WSLF force defending the Marda Pass. The attackers were thus able to assault from two directions in a "pincer" action, allowing the re-capturing of Jijiga in only two days while killing 3,000 defenders. The Somali defense collapsed and every major Ethiopian town was recaptured in the following weeks. Recognizing that his position was untenable, Siad Barre ordered the SNA to retreat back into Somalia on 9 March 1978. The last significant Somali unit left Ethiopia on 15 March 1978, marking the end of the war.

Following the withdrawal of the SNA, the WSLF continued their insurgency. By May 1980, the rebels, with the assistance of a small number of SNA soldiers who continued to help the guerilla war, controlled a substantial region of the Ogaden. However by 1981 the insurgents were reduced to sporadic hit-and-run attacks and were finally defeated.

At the end you were defeated by us,I know you can not accept but it is the true and nobody even Allah can change the outcome.

We destroyed Somali Army.

Jimale
Hussein Adam
Abdi Samantar
Said Samantar

All somali sources agree with me but you dont have any somali author with supports you.

We killed 3.000 men in one day and somalis only killed 400 cubans,is this a victory over Cuba?

[luis1]

Let me show you the article of the ethiopian casualties:



Gebru Tareke and his opinion about Ogaden War,please read it.

[rabanam]

We killed 3.000 men in one day and somalis only killed 400 cubans,is this a victory over Cuba?

At the end of the war, 6566 Ethiopian/Cuban/Russian troops were killed vs. 6,453 Somalis. Far more Ethiopian/Cuban/Russian arms/weapons, tanks, APCs and vehicles were destroyed. That's victory for Somalia over Cuba, superpower Russia and Ethiopia. Yeah.

[luis1]

At the end Somali Army was destroyed,WSLF was destroyed too and Greater Somalia dream was shattered.Somalia state is a disaster now.


The somali reality is very sad.

A somali author says:

http://wardheernews.com/articles/june/7 ... eldoon.htm


Ali Samatar was privy to and a key player in all that happened behind the curtains in that crucial period when huge and more powerful forces were arrayed against us comprising Soviet generals and materiel as well as South Yemeni and Cuban forces beside the Ethiopians. After our defeat – we prefer to call it withdrawal – an Ethiopian colleague said to me jokingly, “ Ismail, we taught you Somalis a lesson” and I replied to him, also jokingly, “Yes, but the lesson was in Russian, not in Amharic”. He looked at me and simply walked away.

I am still waiting for your somali sources


More somali sources:

http://www.somalilandtimes.net/Archive/45/4510.htm

Though at first, Somali forces scored numerous successive victories in the battlefield, "capturing all of the Ogaden region and threatening the key towns of Harar and DireDawa, " but with the help of Cuban and Soviet support it did not take too long for Ethiopia to regain all the lost territory, and in 1978, Ethiopia re-took all of the territories.

http://www.somalilandnet.com/somaliland ... 0130.shtml

Puntland says about Ogaden War:

http://wardheernews.com/Articles_09/Aug ... cheme.html

The Ogaden war represented the most serious disappointment in Somalia. Its outcome was a severe psychological blow to the morale of the Somalis. Siyaad Barre’s major political miscalculation was that knowing the Americans decided not to arm Somalia – by toeing a straight OAU line – he kicked out the Russian and Cubans from Somali soil. As a result of this, the general mood of the public was at its lowest peak, after more than 60% of the country’s army equipment, such as heavy armoured, was either destroyed or captured in the war. Siyaad Barre’s position inside Somalia came under severe pressure. With the help of the Russians, Cubans, and Yemenis, Ethiopian forces became victorious, forcing Siyaad Barre to withdraw Somali forces from the Ogaden.


Show me your sources.Forget it you dont have any one.

We are the champions.