Grandpa soo gal

[Keyblade]

union, what can clay possibly be a metaphor for?

Darwinian evolution perhaps?

so basically we were created from an extract of Darwinian evolution?

[union]

union, what can clay possibly be a metaphor for?

Darwinian evolution perhaps?

so basically we were created from an extract of Darwinian evolution?

Metaphors aren't always easy to understand.

[Keyblade]

first it was i don't believe...now it's i don't know. how can one live with themselves being willfully ignorant?

I don't believe and I don't care to learn something which is fabricated, i.e I am not aware of what you're talking about which is nonsense and fiction in the first place.

but if you don't know (weliba you're not even aware), and this stuff is too intricate for you, how do you know it's fabricated?

[grandpakhalif]

Shirib are you saying the following Sahih Hadith is "metaphorical" and that the Sun didn't actually do these actions?

The following hadeeth does indicate that though:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allaah and His Prophet know best. He (the Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.
[Sahih Muslim: No. 297]

?

[Based]

Keyblade, because his Sheikh says so.

[Alphanumeric]

Shirib are you saying the following Sahih Hadith is "metaphorical" and that the Sun didn't actually do these actions?

The following hadeeth does indicate that though:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allaah and His Prophet know best. He (the Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.
[Sahih Muslim: No. 297]

?

this has nothing to with any orbits

[grandpakhalif]

first it was i don't believe...now it's i don't know. how can one live with themselves being willfully ignorant?

I don't believe and I don't care to learn something which is fabricated, i.e I am not aware of what you're talking about which is nonsense and fiction in the first place.

but if you don't know (weliba you're not even aware), and this stuff is too intricate for you, how do you know it's fabricated?

I don't care to learn anything that is deemed contradictory and inflammatory against my religion. Just like I don't study Satanism.

[grandpakhalif]

Shirib are you saying the following Sahih Hadith is "metaphorical" and that the Sun didn't actually do these actions?

The following hadeeth does indicate that though:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allaah and His Prophet know best. He (the Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.
[Sahih Muslim: No. 297]

?

this has nothing to with any orbits

How does it not? The Prophet is clearly describing the daily routine of the Sun until a special event occurs?

I'll explain bit by bit:

Do you know where the sun goes?

The Prophet is asking, where does the sun go? I.e where does it go everyday after it is night time? or sets?

Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne.

The sun is literally gliding. What's the definition of gliding!?

Cause to move with a smooth continuous motion.

Your beloved thery suggests that the Earth is the one moving, which is incorrect as this hadith clearly indicates the sun's 'gliding' nature.

Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked

It falls prostating to who? Allah Jala wal Cala, pausing, awaiting the command of God to rise.

Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne.

Again the sun "rises" which indicates upward motion and is ordered to return to its place, again "gliding" is mentioned, until it reaches its resting place under the Throne again.


This hadith clearly indicates movement throughout. I don't think anything else needs to be said. Now if you want to say NO GRANDPA THIS IS METAPHORICAL, then you are no different than union and are simply picking and choosing and making baseless explanations without proof. The sahaba knew the sun to be the same none disputed this. And we all know collectively the Sahaba can never error.

[Shirib]

Shirib are you saying the following Sahih Hadith is "metaphorical" and that the Sun didn't actually do these actions?

The following hadeeth does indicate that though:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allaah and His Prophet know best. He (the Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.
[Sahih Muslim: No. 297]

?

that doesn't talk about what orbits what at all. The sun rises from the east and sets in the west, everyone knows that. Where does this hadith ever mention the sun orbiting the earth?

[Witticism]

Most of the replies thus far have been cordial and friendly. Attempts have been made to explain things from a logical, scientific point of view. I'm not going to repeat the process. Grandpa, you're just trolling ( or you're immensely deluded)

[Keyblade]

I don't care to learn anything that is deemed contradictory and inflammatory against my religion. Just like I don't study Satanism.

so in the end you actually do blindly follow men.

[grandpakhalif]

Allah the Most high says:
he has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And he has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the OftForgiving. Az-Zumar 39:5

And His Words: "He makes the night to go in the day.

That is it turns around it, as a turban is wrapped around, which proves the revolving of the night and the day around the eary. If it were the earth which revolved around them, He would have said: He cause the earth to revolve around the night and day. And in His Words:

the sun and the moon, each running (on a fixed course).

It is clear from what precedes is that it is a proof that the sun and the moon move in a perceptible orbit, because subjecting something which moves to its movement is more apparent than subjecting something stationary which does not move.

Allah, the Most High says:
By the sun and its brightness. By the moon as it follows it (the sun). Ash-Shams 91:1-2

And the meaning of follows it.

Is that it comes after it and this is a proof of their moving and revolving around the earth, for if it were the earth which revolved around them, the moon would not be following the sun; rather it would sometimes be following it and sometimes it would be followed by it because the sun is higher than it. And deduction from this Verse requires study and reflection.

Allah the most High says: And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing. And the moon, We have measured for it mansions (to traverse) till it returns like the old drid curved date statlk. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit. Ya-Seen 36:38-40
So, attributing the movement to the sun and describing it as a Decree from the Almighty, Most Wise proves that it is a real movement with a far-reaching Decree, since the consequence of it is the alternation of the night and day and the seasons.



The Measures of the moons mansion (i.e. stations) is a proof that it traverses them, for if it was the earth which revolves, the measuring of the mansions would be for the earths movement around the moon and not for the moons movement around it.



And negating the suns ability to overtake the moon, and the nights ability to outstrip the day are evidence of the rushing movement on the part of the sun and the moon, and the night and the day.

The Prophet (Sallah Allahu Alyhe wa Sallam) said to Abu Tharr, May Allah be please with him, when the sun had just set:
Do you know where it goes?

He said, Allah and His Messenger know best. He said:

Verily, it goes (i.e. travels) and it prostrates beneath the Throne and seeks permission to rise, and permission is granted to it. Then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered: Return from whence you came, and so it will rise in the west. [Reported in Al-Bukhari in the Book of the Beginning of Creation, in the Chapter: Description of the Sun and Moon (3199) and by Muslim in the Book of Faith, in the Chapter: Explanation of the Time When Faith Will not be Accepted (150).]

So and it is extremely clear from his words: Return from whence you came that it revolves around the earth and through its revolving the sunrise and sunset occur.

It is clear from the many Ahadith which attribute rising, setting, and declining from its zenith to the sun, that it is the sun which does so and not the earth

[Witticism]

^^ Well there's your problem. Neither will you find anywhere in the Quran or Bible that mentions Ganymede, Adenosine Triphosphate, or Sickle Cell Anemia. That doesn't mean that those things don't exist.

[Alphanumeric]

nope, those verses are clear to me. sun doesn't orbit the earth

[SultanOrder]

Grandpa the sun only "sets" or "rises" relative to where we are on the earth. If you go on an airplane and travel west with the sun above you, you can stay with the sun as it moves across the sky, hence it never setting. So when is this sun going under the thrown and rising from the east, if you follow it?