The Gersony Report on the SNM and SNA in 1988

[Siciid85]

I don't think we need a report by foreigner to know exactly what took place in late 80s. Most of us can remember what happened or relate to it in different
matter that is much more clearer than this report.

Exactly.

[Salah Al-Din]

Grant,

I’m afraid you’re out of your depth when it comes to Somaliland & Somalia affairs. Forgive for saying this, but your ignorance knows no bounds. You’re stuck in time and unfortunately in decline. Your retired ideas do not sway any one with knowledge.

As for this article, there are a number of things that need to be understood before it can be used as an authentic source for the conflict in 1988-1991.

1. The US was the closest ally to the Afweyne regime. At the time this report was being written the USA was supplying and arming Afweyne. They were also invested greatly in the oil exploration in the north. As such, any report conducted by a US institution would be heavily biased and not credible since they would not want to implicate their own government for being complicit in committing crimes against humanity.
2. To illustrate the above point, although the author witnessed the aftermath of the bombardment of Hargeisa, in his conclusion he basically summed it up as a contested history as each side of the conflict believes the other of being responsible for the destruction. This sounding of neutrality is convenient so as to not have to put the US assistance of Afweyne in the spot light.
3. In the report, there was a lot of praise & affection for the Afweyne regime for allowing unfettered access to northern Somalia. However, he only went to the big cities, which by that time had a population of those aligned with the regime and therefore did not see firsthand any conflict.

Considering the above taking this report with more than a grain of salt is warranted considering the countless other reports international human rights agencies that give a strikingly different narration.

One can almost forgive the author for coming to his conclusions as he did his best under circumstances (the need to not implicating the US) and the many constraints outlined in his report. However, what is repugnant is for the Neo-Faqash who can access credible information of that time and have the power of hindsight and what came after 1988 and yet continue to equate the SNM & the Afweyne regime. You don’t hear the Anti-Gaddafi forces of Benghazi put their people in danger of Gaddafi’s tanks. It is just ludicrous.

The SNM has proven from start to finish that it was democratic, that it was effective and that it was magnanimous in victory. It gave soldiers who were left as the regime left free passage to go to their home regions. It can be said it used the traditions of the Sunnah to not exact revenge on their former enemies. As the Sahabi cried out it is the day of MALHAMA when the Prophet SCW came back to conquer Makkah, and was told no it is the day of MARHAMA. This is the nature in which the SNM conducted itself in making peace village by village in the north of Somalia, and laying the foundation for peace between clans that have been pitted against one another. If it was in a path to destroy other it would have happened when the iron was hot. It gave up power and dispersed among its population having accomplished its mission by giving the people of the north the freedom to choose their destiny.Alhamdulilah, thanks to Allah SWT this opportunity was not wasted and Somaliland’s sovereignty was reclaimed on May 18, 1991.

There is a great contrast between the other rebel movements & the SNM. They took totally different trajectories after the Afweyne regime fell. The SNM embarked on peace building and the others went on a course of clannish bloodletting.

As for the comparison to the Afwene regime, the fact that it imploded from within and could not sustain itself economically or militarily speaks for itself.

[gurey25]

A circus full of sensitive clowns.

If a rebel group came in from Mexico and cordoned off a part of Arizona the American government, like all government would turn the world upside removing them.

You want us to have sympathy for REBELS? You want us to accept apologism for TREASON? You want to hoodwink us with giving reason to the very nature of that barbarity's foundation?

We will NEVER accept that.

what rebels are you talking about?
you stop being a rebel when you win, and we won handily .
You lost get over it, you lost when you targeted isaaq civilians, you lost when you rounded up thousands of men and boys and made them disappear into unmarked graves.
This is when you stopped being a legitimate government and became simply a enemy to be destroyed .

revisionism is only for the consumption of your clan, most people will not buy this because we have the internet.
This is not the 70s and 80's when you were able to concoct fantasies about the dervishe and brainwash poor inoocent hawiye, and raxanweyne and jareer in the schools.

[Thuganomics]

Grant,

I’m afraid you’re out of your depth when it comes to Somaliland & Somalia affairs. Forgive for saying this, but your ignorance knows no bounds. You’re stuck in time and unfortunately in decline. Your retired ideas do not sway any one with knowledge.

As for this article, there are a number of things that need to be understood before it can be used as an authentic source for the conflict in 1988-1991.

1. The US was the closest ally to the Afweyne regime. At the time this report was being written the USA was supplying and arming Afweyne. They were also invested greatly in the oil exploration in the north. As such, any report conducted by a US institution would be heavily biased and not credible since they would not want to implicate their own government for being complicit in committing crimes against humanity.
2. To illustrate the above point, although the author witnessed the aftermath of the bombardment of Hargeisa, in his conclusion he basically summed it up as a contested history as each side of the conflict believes the other of being responsible for the destruction. This sounding of neutrality is convenient so as to not have to put the US assistance of Afweyne in the spot light.
3. In the report, there was a lot of praise & affection for the Afweyne regime for allowing unfettered access to northern Somalia. However, he only went to the big cities, which by that time had a population of those aligned with the regime and therefore did not see firsthand any conflict.

Considering the above taking this report with more than a grain of salt is warranted considering the countless other reports international human rights agencies that give a strikingly different narration.

One can almost forgive the author for coming to his conclusions as he did his best under circumstances (the need to not implicating the US) and the many constraints outlined in his report. However, what is repugnant is for the Neo-Faqash who can access credible information of that time and have the power of hindsight and what came after 1988 and yet continue to equate the SNM & the Afweyne regime. You don’t hear the Anti-Gaddafi forces of Benghazi put their people in danger of Gaddafi’s tanks. It is just ludicrous.

The SNM has proven from start to finish that it was democratic, that it was effective and that it was magnanimous in victory. It gave soldiers who were left as the regime left free passage to go to their home regions. It can be said it used the traditions of the Sunnah to not exact revenge on their former enemies. As the Sahabi cried out it is the day of MALHAMA when the Prophet SCW came back to conquer Makkah, and was told no it is the day of MARHAMA. This is the nature in which the SNM conducted itself in making peace village by village in the north of Somalia, and laying the foundation for peace between clans that have been pitted against one another. If it was in a path to destroy other it would have happened when the iron was hot. It gave up power and dispersed among its population having accomplished its mission by giving the people of the north the freedom to choose their destiny.Alhamdulilah, thanks to Allah SWT this opportunity was not wasted and Somaliland’s sovereignty was reclaimed on May 18, 1991.

There is a great contrast between the other rebel movements & the SNM. They took totally different trajectories after the Afweyne regime fell. The SNM embarked on peace building and the others went on a course of clannish bloodletting.

As for the comparison to the Afwene regime, the fact that it imploded from within and could not sustain itself economically or militarily speaks for itself.

Salah Al-Din:Well put.clear,concise and comprehensive .Even with that bias according to this report it says:

At least 5,000 unarmed civilian Isaaks were purposefully murdered by the Somali Armed Forces between May [1988] and March 1989, in the absence of resistance and in contexts which presented no immediate danger to these forces."

Now in contrast read this unbiased report by Africa Watch "A Government At War With It's Own People "

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/ ... a_1990.pdf

[Coldoon]

That was Beled-Xaawo in the worst in the civil war. We have posted new pictures in the Gedo section which considering how much you lurk there you have seen. And Beled-Xaawo, being about one of dozen Marehan towns in Somalia (as much as all Isaaq) and because of its brunt in the civil war may not be Hargeisa or Kimsaayo but it sure beats any town Habar Yonis can claim in Somalia as theirs only. Beled-Xaawo is one of how many 100% Marehan towns. What is a 100% HY town that mythical hamlet Maydh you keep harping about?

You hit the nail on the head.

[Siciid85]

You can thank Coldoon for quoting. First of all we are not part of "Somalia" and secondly Bulo Xaawo or any other villages put together settled by the Boons is smaller
than one neighborhood of New Hargeysa. . Nevermind Burco, Erigavo, Oodweyne etc. New Hargeysa (100% HY) alone is larger than the entire Kismaayo city which you
share with Ogaden, Gaaljecel, Harti and others. As for Maydh it is a sizeable growing town on the coast, the Boons have no town that is 100% theirs on the coast of
that size.

The largest Boon town is Abuudwaaq and it is the size of one neighborhood in New Hargeysa if not less. We are not in the same league Langaab Boons.

There is no point trying to glorify a slum infested village where men brag about raping the local women.

Beled Hawo, Gedo 0:36 "we use the guns to rape women"

[Thuganomics]

That was Beled-Xaawo in the worst in the civil war. We have posted new pictures in the Gedo section which considering how much you lurk there you have seen. And Beled-Xaawo, being about one of dozen Marehan towns in Somalia (as much as all Isaaq) and because of its brunt in the civil war may not be Hargeisa or Kimsaayo but it sure beats any town Habar Yonis can claim in Somalia as theirs only. Beled-Xaawo is one of how many 100% Marehan towns. What is a 100% HY town that mythical hamlet Maydh you keep harping about?

You hit the nail on the head.

Here comes Pinky with his pom poms

[grandpakhalif]

Guys why can't we agree on something or gain common ground. In reality the SNA were not angels and did commit warcrimes against innocent civilians. This is a fact that cannot be denied.

But we must also admit that the SNM were funded by ethiopia and libya and seeked to destablize the somali state.

Both entities committed warcrimes although one side was state sanctioned.

Now we can agree that such a war was unwise on both sides, it has drived a wedge between the hearts of somalis and has left permanent scars which still have far reaching implications today. a peaceful resolution and peaceful talks should be the best method of reconciliation.

[hargaysaay]

I think the whole bombardment of Hergeisa and the shelling was unnecessary. How strong or equipped were the SNM rebels that invaded parts of Hargeisa and Burco? That's a question that should be asked. Wasn't Siyad Barre's government strong enough to send in Tanks, APCs and ground reinforcements to smoke out the SNM rebels hiding within the homes and people in both Hargeisa and Burco at the time instead of sending in Fighter Jets?

Anyways, I think a Second 88 will happen in the future, history repeats itself usually

they have tried every faqash trick in the book to force snm out of the city from artillery bombardments (they usually started shelling from 6 o'clock in the morning till sunset) to non stop air strikes but they still failed i guess they were never trained for that kind of urban street fighting warfare

[gurey25]

But we must also admit that the SNM were funded by ethiopia and libya and seeked to destablize the somali state.

We were allied with Ethiopia yes, but those stingy bastards refused to provide arms , they provided a safe haven for operations and allowed use of its infrastructure for supply, but they did not provide weapons free, we had to pay for them, we had to even pay bribes to allow shipment of ammunition , fuel and food from Djibouti-Diredawa-Jijiga to the front .
Ethiopian aid came with too many stings attached and this caused a cooling of relations between the SNM and Ethiopia between 81-84
The Ethiopians even threatened to kick out the SNM for not allowing joint control of operation like they had with the SSDF.
Now the SSDF was provided free materials but had to work hand in hand with the Ethiopians.

This all changed in 84 when the SSDF went bust, proved ineffective and the SNM pulled off allot of audacious attacks against the Somali army.
The Ethiopians decided that having an effective rebel movement was worth the cost of not having control over it, the agreement was that they would not interfere on condition that we provide advance notice of any attacks on the Somali army.

Libya provided arms for the first 300 SNM volunteers in 81, ghadaffi offered to arm 5000 and provide heavy equipment and a subsidy but we had to follow his green book mumbo jumbo and other nonesense, so it was cut off .
The SSDF took the money and weapons but did nothing with it.

[Thuganomics]

from 7:00



:

Raage Omaar's sister Raaqiya's analysis of Afwayne at 3.34

[Somalistan]

Yes wallee Isaaq wakaa. Ha la karbaasho faqash yar yar ee wax is mooday

Doofaaridii shalay ilaa xuduudka Kenya la baacsaday ee hadhka cad kabahooda ka cararay ayaa maanta raganimo sheeganaya.

[Siciid85]

Wara Somalistan did you knew the largest Boon town Cabuud-Boon has a less urban population than the town settled by your sub sub sub clan Cabdi Cismaan aka Oodweyne
town.




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[original dervish]

give it a rest

[SahanGalbeed]

1. The US was the closest ally to the Afweyne regime. At the time this report was being written the USA was supplying and arming Afweyne. They were also invested greatly in the oil exploration in the north. As such, any report conducted by a US institution would be heavily biased and not credible since they would not want to implicate their own government for being complicit in committing crimes against humanity.

yep, that's why eventhough I live in the US and love it , polically speaking from an Isaaq standpoint we should stay away from the US gov as much as we can . Let them fuc,k with the Zoomalis for all I care .