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Alchemist wrote:

DR-YALAXOOW wrote:

Alchemist wrote: Saying I am Muslim is not a enough. .

who the heck are you?? are you a God??? who gave you right you say you being muslims is not enough... listen Kid its only God who decides if someone muslinimo is enough or not..

Big misconceptions you have there. I will try to explain it to you. For example someone claims their Muslim but than rejects the Quran or or a single verse from the quran, rejects hadth in general their kaffir

A person claims he/she is Muslim but disbelieves in the prophet or believes there is another prophet After prophet Muhammad saw he/she is a gaal.

Mocking the deen like you do makes you gaal.

You have no excuse your in your forties. Walahi you can claim to be muslim all you want but in the eyes of those Muslims who have even a little knowledge your a gaal.


So you see, saying am muslim is not a enough.

You are mostly correct with the exception of rejecting ahadith. In order for this belief to effectively take one outside the fold of Islam they would have to deny specifically mutawatir ahadith. Undoubtedly there are many actions or beliefs that are supported by Quran or sahih ahadith that effectively remove one from the fold of Islam. There are many but a few from my own memory...
* The most obvious - Consciously denying any of the six pillars of imaan or 5 pillars of Islam or any injunction of the Quran
* Denying any of the qat'e ayat of the Quran
* Denying the Ijma [consensus] of Sahaba
* Hatred or contempt for the Ansaar or Muhajirun
* Believing that Quran is not qadeem [eternal]
* Denying the seeing of Allah (SWT) on Yawn al Qiyamah
* Belief that Hazrat Isa (AS) died a natural death and was not resurrected alive with his body
* Denying the second coming of Hazrat Isa (AS)
* Denying the Hadd laws and their punishments as prescribed by Allah (SWT)
* Denying the Khilafah of the Shaikhain (AbuBakr, Umar, Uthman RA)
* Denying the existence of Kiram al-Katibeen [2 angels on your right and left shoulders]
* Believing that the dunya, this universe or matter is qadeem [eternal]
* Denying the finality of Prophethood with Muhammad (SAW)
* Disbelief in the punishment of the grave

There are approximately 30 others that I won't type out at this time. Also note that this is from the manhaj of the Deobandi school under the Hanafi madhab so there may be some difference of opinion on certain issue or aspects of an issue. At any rate, when we analyze the complete list of actions of beliefs that effectively remove one from the fold of Islam, we can accurately conclude that any man who is conscious and aware of Islam for what it is and despite this, makes a decision to mock the deen in general is quite likely to have fallen into apostasy in the sight of Allah (SWT). Whether or not he definitely has depends on the specifics of what he has mocked but mocking Islam is, at the very least, approaching the zone where one is removed from the fold becoming murtad or kaafir.

Gantaal05 wrote:@Tati Goodluck

GeoSeven wrote:

Gantaal05 wrote:

Ever think about what if you are wrong and there is an actual hell waiting for you? its a big chance to take...since were talking eternity.

I love your comment it reminds me of this South park episode , sorry hahah

It's wrong to assume that all people follow their religions blindly. The majority of Muslims actually practice their religion where areas others barley even attend prayer services. If Muslims blindly followed their religion because they were simply born into it, you wouldn't have many practicing. Culture won't make you bend your back to a God 5 times a day if you didn't believe in what you are doing.

one of major sins in islam ..

Fatal Sin No. 54:A slave's running away from his master


The Prophet said : if the slave escapes his master, his prayer will not be accepted. He said also : Any slave escapes his master the covenant of protection is cleared from him. The Prophet said also Three are whom Allaah will not accept their prayers nor merits are given to them : the escaping slave till he returns back to his master, the damned woman by her husband till he is satisfied and the drunkard till he wakes up. In another hadeeth the Prophet says : Allaah curses the one one who follows not his master. Another hadeteh is : Three whom you should notask about : a man who leaves his master and died on this disobedience, a slave who ran away from his master and died,

why God want to punish poor slave who run away and want to be free humabeings why God is on side of the slave owner?

my critical thinking tells me this so called hadiith and many other ancient scriptures has nothing to do whit what God said or wanted... its just ancient humans wrote this down inorder to keep their slaves...

so Islam today is not same islam as it was just 100 years Ago..

^^Nobody is punishing any slaves.Slavery was a normal practice in the past. It was perfectly normal to have a slave. The slave had rights under Islamic law, they weren't dogs. Man I thought I was a blasphemous Somali at times but snet takes it to another level.

GeoSeven wrote:The majority of Muslims actually practice their religion where areas others barley even attend prayer services. If Muslims blindly followed their religion because they were simply born into it, you wouldn't have many practicing. Culture won't make you bend your back to a God 5 times a day if you didn't believe in what you are doing.

Well said.

GeoSeven wrote:^^Nobody is punishing any slaves.Slavery was a normal practice in the past. It was perfectly normal to have a slave. The slave had rights under Islamic law, they weren't dogs. Man I thought I was a blasphemous Somali at times but snet takes it to another level.

rights?? like what not been able to be free loool what a chicken brained duli you are.. dude are you even saying this shit with straight face? so if i give you few rights like cooking for me and marrying my goat and eating my left overs...you will gladly be my slave?

Some women asked me if i was a Muslim, Muslim! because they believed in Christ but where not Christian

greenday wrote:Some women asked me if i was a Muslim, Muslim! because they believed in Christ but where not Christian

huh? what you means, yes you do , you believe in Christ at least in the sense that he is the Messiah and will come back at the end of the time.

X.Playa wrote:

greenday wrote:Some women asked me if i was a Muslim, Muslim! because they believed in Christ but where not Christian

huh? what you means, yes you do , you believe in Christ at least in the sense that he is the Messiah and will come back at the end of the time.

They believe in the holy trinity but they said they were not Christian, to me that is not possible. Is he faith or practice that makes you a Muslim, Christian or a Jew?

The question they asked me was similar to the topic although he didn't say are you a cultural Muslim, he said are you a Muslim, Muslim! as in ma Muslim run baa tahay.

am confused.

War qofaa idhahday Muslim run maatahay!( They could tell am Muslim cuz I wear hijab) when I asked them what they were, they they believed in Christ lakiin they were not Christian. Marka how can someone who thinks Jesus died for their sins iyo waxas not be a Christian is my question! Hada fahmin waxa dhahooyo iska moogi how else to say it

waan fahamay , macquul maaha , if they believe the teaching of jose then they are Joseites. no ifs or buts,

X.Playa wrote:

GeoSeven wrote:^^Nobody is punishing any slaves.Slavery was a normal practice in the past. It was perfectly normal to have a slave. The slave had rights under Islamic law, they weren't dogs. Man I thought I was a blasphemous Somali at times but snet takes it to another level.

rights?? like what not been able to be free loool what a chicken brained duli you are.. dude are you even saying this shit with straight face? so if i give you few rights like cooking for me and marrying my goat and eating my left overs...you will gladly be my slave?

Stop talking about marrying goats and feeding left overs. Maybe you don't know jack about Islam, which why you are half lost when it comes to the religion. In Islam, cruelty to a slave is forbidden, proper food and facilities must be provided for them. There are rules and regulations pertaining to it. Go read about it. Stop picturing slavery from an Ancient Romans perspective.

GeoSeven wrote:

X.Playa wrote:

GeoSeven wrote:^^Nobody is punishing any slaves.Slavery was a normal practice in the past. It was perfectly normal to have a slave. The slave had rights under Islamic law, they weren't dogs. Man I thought I was a blasphemous Somali at times but snet takes it to another level.

rights?? like what not been able to be free loool what a chicken brained duli you are.. dude are you even saying this shit with straight face? so if i give you few rights like cooking for me and marrying my goat and eating my left overs...you will gladly be my slave?

Stop talking about marrying goats and feeding left overs. Maybe you don't know jack about Islam, which why you are half lost when it comes to the religion. In Islam, cruelty to a slave is forbidden, proper food and facilities must be provided for them. There are rules and regulations pertaining to it. Go read about it. Stop picturing slavery from an Ancient Romans perspective.

Absolutely! When one studies the intricacies of the laws pertaining to "slavery" as prescribed by Islam, we see that the minimum conditions set for slaves creates an environment and living situation that is far more comfortable than the alleged "free" life of the average working class citizen that lives paycheck to paycheck in any Western country today. This average working class citizen lives in a state of perpetual fear of losing the few possessions that he has managed to acquire in life. If he is "laid off" as they call it, if anything happens to disrupt this person's life, he may not be able to make a car payment, a rent payment, etc. etc. And the result? Well, we know what the result is and in the worst cases one thing gone wrong can serve as a catalyst to what then becomes a domino effect and the next thing this man knows, he is homeless with nothing but the clothes on his back. This is the reality that constantly looms over the heads of the working class in USA, UK, Australia, Canada. You know what I call it personally? Slavery. To view "slavery" as prescribed in hadith on the same platform as "slavery" which was practiced by the Romans or Europeans throughout history is an error to say the least. The two are not comparable in any sense and can't be accurately viewed through the same window, the fundamental dynamics are simply too different.

Furthermore, no one on this thread has mentioned that both Rasulullah (SAW) and Aisha (RA) are often cited throughout the ahadith as encouraging freeing slaves, the freeing of slaves is depicted as a virtuous act many times in sahih hadith. I can write out a full essay detailing the how and why aspects of my following statement if anyone requires it but in short - If a regime were to come to power in any given location and govern by the Shariah, it would be completely within their authority and within Islam to legally forbid the keeping of slaves under their jurisdiction and this would not be in violation of the Sharia. Upon analysis of all the hadiths pertaining to slavery, one can accurately conclude that the concept is discouraged but not explicitly disallowed in Islam, this is why Islam addresses the prescribed conditions for those who, for whatever reason, keep slaves.

zamin,

Don't forget that "slavery" in Islam was an essential avenue for captured women and children to gain a position in a comfortable Islamic home. Let's not forget most slaves were not from Arabia persay but were from the perpheries/recently captured areas by the Muslims. Most of these women and children would have been raped and slaughtered under a taaghut regime but Islam forbade this and encouraged encorporating this captured people in an Islamic household. These widowed women and orphans not only were saved from being tortured, raped/killed but were given provision and homes by the muslims.