I might be able to bring her back....

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LiquidHYDROGEN
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by LiquidHYDROGEN »

ciddhartha wrote:By Creationist I meant anti-Evolution, my bad. Man was made "by hand" from "clay," "dust," and "the earth" as I stated earlier.

That is where Islam is in contradiction with scientific fact. Now, will you argue that I don't really know what was meant by "created with my own hands" or "from clay/dust/the earth," :roll:

Let's not forget the story of Adam is believed to be true in Islam.
.

Actually, yes. I don't think you can find a single muslim who believes he is made of actual mud or clay. That is what happens when you take something vague and metaphorical and then try to extrapolate it onto real life counterparts. How do you know earth, clay, etc doesn't just mean natural elements or material? I mean the jinn are made of "smokeless fire", what's that? If you take it literally, it will mean actual fire and flame and we can both agree that's ridiculous. Maybe it means plasma or high levels of energy/photons. The same with man. Maybe mud is a crude way of saying elements and natural materials e.g. carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen etc. Scientists say that the elements found in stars and nebula are also found all over the universe and yes including earth/mud/clay and in human beings.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by TheMailMan »

Phinks wrote:@LH

Holy fuck you just destroyed all the atheistic cunts on this forum. :lol:

The worst part is you have these f-king imbeciles proclaiming "I support science" blah blah blah and state that there is no God. But what the f-king idiots don't realise is there is (currently) no scientifically verifiable evidence to support either side of the God question, both theism and atheism have to be called
beliefs. Just as theism is a belief that there is a God, atheism is the belief that there isn't. Atheism, therefore, is not immune to the criticisms that other belief systems might draw. This is why I don't take the dumb asses seriously, "Atheism is supported by science" my ass.

Science can't even address the
issue, let alone reach any conclusion. :lol:
Saaxib, it gets worse than that: :lol:

The scientific evidence clearly points to the fact that an Infinite Regression isn't scientifically or logically possible. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics clearly states that disorder naturally follows order, and thus it would be functionally impossible for an ordered Universe to arise without it being brought about in the finite past by an Infinite Cause (ie. God) And since an infinite regression is logically impossible, it naturally follows that this "Infinite Cause" was itself not caused. It was just there. We theists call this Infinite Cause "God"....and the structure, dimensions, and nature of the Universe point to an Intelligent Creator who brought this about. All teleological and scientific arguments point to the existence of Allah.

It's the Atheists who are forced to do mental gymnastics to avoid what's staring at them in the face. THEY are the ones who know nothing about science, and are forced to come up with amateur arguments just to admit the truth
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by TheMailMan »

LiquidHYDROGEN wrote:
ciddhartha wrote:By Creationist I meant anti-Evolution, my bad. Man was made "by hand" from "clay," "dust," and "the earth" as I stated earlier.

That is where Islam is in contradiction with scientific fact. Now, will you argue that I don't really know what was meant by "created with my own hands" or "from clay/dust/the earth," :roll:

Let's not forget the story of Adam is believed to be true in Islam.
.

Actually, yes. I don't think you can find a single muslim who believes he is made of actual mud or clay. That is what happens when you take something vague and metaphorical and then try to extrapolate it onto real life counterparts. How do you know earth, clay, etc doesn't just mean natural elements or material? I mean the jinn are made of "smokeless fire", what's that? If you take it literally, it will mean actual fire and flame and we can both agree that's ridiculous. Maybe it means plasma or high levels of energy/photons. The same with man. Maybe mud is a crude way of saying elements and natural materials e.g. carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen etc. Scientists say that the elements found in stars and nebula are also found all over the universe and yes including earth/mud/clay and in human beings.

Saaxib, these Atheists are walking around like headless chickens :lol:

It is a FACT that humans were made from the Earth. Our entire bodies are made up of the elements which compose the Earth. The carbon, the nitrogen, the oxygen, the phosphorus, the calcium.

It's only the Atheists who are STUPID enough to believe their own propaganda. I cannot believe these people
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by ciddhartha »

What you're doing is called being an apologist. Allah made humans from nothing into what we are today, end point. There is no evolution when it comes to humans in Islam. There are no ancestral species before humans according to Islam. Explain that away if you want, but you're wrong.

If you want to get into language we certainly can. There is a strong implication in the Quran that Man (his creation, not gradual coming into being) was a miracle / magic. It is the penultimate testament to God's omnipotence after the Universe.


You still haven't touched on Adam and Hawa. Was it just a story to be interpreted? Because Adam was the first man and first prophet.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by GeoSeven »

ciddhartha wrote:
Why are you lumping a diverse group of people into a label ("empiricists") that you can dismiss? The question of whether or not God exists is entirely philosophical, full stop. There is no answer because the question doesn't exist outside of our collective psyche.

If you accept Evolution (Islam is Creationist, btw) human intellect was not created and is not a miracle. With it came abstract thought (ideation), self-awareness (mortality), curiosity and emotional depth. It was from this potent combination that God was born (my opinion). Personally, I don't believe in God because I don't place much value in humanity, our beliefs, our endeavors or our self-image. Humans are predictable, lowly animals. The common dismissal of Sociology, Anthropology, Psychology, the so-called Human Sciences as pseudo-science (a joke) is a direct reflection of our own God-complex.

When I ask myself questions like "Why did early believers accept and/or propagate the accounts of Prophets?" I look to patterns of human behavior. Humans get tired of established religions and are receptive to adopting new beliefs. It is true now and it was true then. Nowadays, due to globalism, humans convert to religions of other regions, but new religions are still being born, new Prophets having revelations.

I remember some guy some place saying human civilization spreading is like mold on bread. We are not noble, we are not some great creation, we are a fungus growing and growing, sowing nothing but seeds of destruction and waste.
Unlike some of the confused and melodramatic claimants on the forum, you really are an atheist in the truest sense aren't you. We're all practically organisms of the Kingdom Animalia and Homo Sapien complexity with its ethical premises of right and wrong is merely a specific.

Shamsi yaa daahir, subxaanaka yaa cadiim :snoop:

You guys continue discussing.
sophisticate wrote:I recommend you lot read the following short article " TOWARDS THE CONCEPTUAL DEFINITION OF ISLAMIC CRITICAL THINKING." I have the link below. :clap:

http://www.academia.edu/4692852/TOWARDS ... L_THINKING
I've just skimmed through it, it's a really good piece :up:
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

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Watch this video on evolution. Ciddharta is full of hot air :lol:
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by LiquidHYDROGEN »

ciddhartha wrote:What you're doing is called being an apologist. Allah made humans from nothing into what we are today, end point. There is no evolution when it comes to humans in Islam. There are no ancestral species before humans according to Islam. Explain that away if you want, but you're wrong.

If you want to get into language we certainly can. There is a strong implication in the Quran that Man (his creation, not gradual coming into being) was a miracle / magic. It is the penultimate testament to God's omnipotence after the Universe.


You still haven't touched on Adam and Hawa. Was it just a story to be interpreted? Because Adam was the first man and first prophet.
You clearly haven't been paying attention. We don't know anything, we believe.

Either way, ontological debates are always a waste of time. I can't prove to you Allah exists, you cannot prove to me he categorically doesn't exist.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by ciddhartha »

That's not what our discussion was about. I'm not trying to prove to you God doesn't exist, I'm trying to relate that Islam is incongruent with Science on certain points. It is the role of the apologist to append "Theistic Evolution" onto something that was understood perfectly 1400 years ago, God made Man from nothing.

MailMan, can you summarize his arguments. I don't like watching speeches, I'd rather read.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by TheMailMan »

ciddhartha wrote:That's not what our discussion was about. I'm not trying to prove to you God doesn't exist, I'm trying to relate that Islam is incongruent with Science on certain points. It is the role of the apologist to append "Theistic Evolution" onto something that was understood perfectly 1400 years ago, God made Man from nothing.

MailMan, can you summarize his arguments. I don't like watching speeches, I'd rather read.
I'm not getting paid for this, that's why you don't see me devoting huge amounts of time discussing such things with outright Kaffirs. Watch the video for yourself.

Anyways, Allah made this entire Universe out of nothing, and created it in stages. Hydrogen fusion, the formation of galaxies, and abiogenesis are all processes which were brought about by our Creator, and will continue to exist until Allah wills.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by burcaawi14 »

The law in physics known as the conservation of energy debunks atheists. They're left with 2 choices: Either they believe the universe is eternal (no beginning no end) which is scientifically flawed, or they believe that all energy (which every single thing is composed of) came from an initial source of energy. Physicists call it energy, We say God.
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by Phinks »

TheMailMan wrote:
Phinks wrote:@LH

Holy fuck you just destroyed all the atheistic cunts on this forum. :lol:

The worst part is you have these f-king imbeciles proclaiming "I support science" blah blah blah and state that there is no God. But what the f-king idiots don't realise is there is (currently) no scientifically verifiable evidence to support either side of the God question, both theism and atheism have to be called
beliefs. Just as theism is a belief that there is a God, atheism is the belief that there isn't. Atheism, therefore, is not immune to the criticisms that other belief systems might draw. This is why I don't take the dumb asses seriously, "Atheism is supported by science" my ass.

Science can't even address the
issue, let alone reach any conclusion. :lol:
Saaxib, it gets worse than that: :lol:

The scientific evidence clearly points to the fact that an Infinite Regression isn't scientifically or logically possible. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics clearly states that disorder naturally follows order, and thus it would be functionally impossible for an ordered Universe to arise without it being brought about in the finite past by an Infinite Cause (ie. God) And since an infinite regression is logically impossible, it naturally follows that this "Infinite Cause" was itself not caused. It was just there. We theists call this Infinite Cause "God"....and the structure, dimensions, and nature of the Universe point to an Intelligent Creator who brought this about. All teleological and scientific arguments point to the existence of Allah.

It's the Atheists who are forced to do mental gymnastics to avoid what's staring at them in the face. THEY are the ones who know nothing about science, and are forced to come up with amateur arguments just to admit the truth
Boom! Headshot! :lol:

I need to read up on this; any reading suggestions?
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by ciddhartha »

TheMailMan wrote:
ciddhartha wrote: I'm not getting paid for this, that's why you don't see me devoting huge amounts of time discussing such things with outright Kaffirs. Watch the video for yourself.

Anyways, Allah made this entire Universe out of nothing, and created it in stages. Hydrogen fusion, the formation of galaxies, and abiogenesis are all processes which were brought about by our Creator, and will continue to exist until Allah wills.
By all means keep muddling the original message of the Quran. Let the foundation become murkier and murkier. Allah's message did not reveal He set the Universe in motion, this is a Theistic Theory created by Man. Who endowed these men with Godly knowledge and insight? Are they prophets? In the Islamic sense, Quran and hadith are truer than this endeavor to appease the modern, Western mind.

It's a shame that a message that was once considered complete and perfect can be so tarnished.

Next thing you'll argue is Adam was a human created by Allah but Hawa was a Neanderthal :roll:
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by TheMailMan »

ciddhartha wrote:
TheMailMan wrote:
ciddhartha wrote: I'm not getting paid for this, that's why you don't see me devoting huge amounts of time discussing such things with outright Kaffirs. Watch the video for yourself.

Anyways, Allah made this entire Universe out of nothing, and created it in stages. Hydrogen fusion, the formation of galaxies, and abiogenesis are all processes which were brought about by our Creator, and will continue to exist until Allah wills.
By all means keep muddling the original message of the Quran. Let the foundation become murkier and murkier. Allah's message did not reveal He set the Universe in motion, this is a Theistic Theory created by Man. Who endowed these men with Godly knowledge and insight? Are they prophets? In the Islamic sense, Quran and hadith are truer than this endeavor to appease the modern, Western mind.

It's a shame that a message that was once considered complete and perfect can be so tarnished.

Next thing you'll argue is Adam was a human created by Allah but Hawa was a Neanderthal :roll:
Congratulations, that was literally the most retarded thing I've heard all week. And today is Saturday...

Allah reveals knowledge that is beneficial to our Guidance purposely. You don't look to the Quran if you want to solve some algebra equations or if you want to learn how to build a submarine. That's separate knowledge and has nothing to do with the Divine Knowledge passed down to us from our Creator. We learn about our Universe through study and analysis, with the full and complete knowledge that Our Lord was responsible for it, and we seek to understand Allah's creation. Our knowledge of science and mathematics is meant to improve the material quality of our lives, and to increase our understanding of the universe, that's it.

The fact that you can't even distinguish the two, shows to me your extremely low intellect. I don't even wanna hear what you have to say after this. Shame on you

:snoop:
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by ciddhartha »

At least Zubeir doesn't apologize for his religion :roll:
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Re: I might be able to bring her back....

Post by TheMailMan »

ciddhartha wrote:At least Zubeir doesn't apologize for his religion :roll:
Naga amuus. You're an embarrassment.

Your arguments prove your extraordinary lack of knowledge on Islam as well as your poor logic
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