Is Somalinimo just a myth?

[smartyt]

It was the war crimes that ruined everything

[Khalid Ali]

judging by the poll the majority of Somalis do not believe in Somalinimo
16% of the dir do not believe in Somalinimo
16% OF The isaaq do not believe in Somalinimo
6% of the darood do not believe in somalinimo
9% of the hawiye do not believe in Somalinimo

[PanSomaliNationalist]

In fact it makes less sense to accept clans which were foreign made (Adopted from Arabs) than nationalism

Somali clans are not foreign made. It is a fruit of nomadic pastoral life. Culturally & physically somali in their creation.

In Somali society a clan does not usually mean the same thing as other kin-based groups, such as tribes, and bands. Often, the distinguishing factor is that a Somali clan is a smaller part of a larger society, not actual distinct separate entities on their own. In contrast to Arab clans who are sub-tribal groups within Arab society, Somali clans are rather a network of families’ that make up the Somali people.

Atleast Nationalism helps us more foreign or not but qabiil hurts us.

It is false dichotomy to seperate clan from Somali. Clans are part of the parcel of being Somali.

Denying clan is not part of the process of peace, regardless of how much horrors have been caused in the name of clan. No more so than ignoring a malignant tumor is good cure for cancer.

What will help Somalis is to quit scapegoating our social structure for the issues of our society but rather put focus on reconciliation between clans & communities.

No clans are bad there's no denying it. Clans are just making a border for Somalia because no matter what there will be turmoil until clans are abolished. For example people are mad at hawiye for not giving other clans a fair representation for example 4.5 but reality is this wouldn't be a problem because if clans didn't exist people wouldn't be complaining because there wouldn't be anything to complain about. We wouldn't be blaming abgaal for Somalia being bad but we would blame hassan sheikh.

[smartyt]

Majority of darood fear their own capital how can there be any somalinimo

[PanSomaliNationalist]

Majority of darood fear their own capital how can there be any somalinimo

Somalinimo is weakening but you can never destroy an ideology that's a fact and one day Darod hawiye isaaq dir etc wont exist and all Somalis will leave in peace with eachother.

[Khalid Ali]

if I see someone stranded on the side of the road and needs help, I might stop and offer my assistance depending on the day or my mood.

If I see a fellow Somali stranded on the road, Im obligated to stop by regardless of my situation. There's a sense of unspoken familial bond no matter how much people deny it here or else my guilty conscious will kick in hard.

Anyone who says other wise is deeply political, they let the ever changing siyaasad and qabiil (they go hand in hand) effect their decisions. They spend considerate amount of time reflecting and pondering on how to set their agenda on a wider scale. For example Khalid is a die hard lander, decades of disputes between him and pro Somalia camp has made him rethink and question his position on everything. As a result he will deny any relationship with Somalia as it directly conflicts with the Sland identity his promoting.

However, there are tons of Somalis who are not into politics like that and usually it is this group that gets along the best.

Advo for me if u were Jumped by couple of Black guys i would help you in that sense i believe in Somalinimo i was once also helped i had beef with couple of Polish guys a very skiny Merexaaan guy i knew jumped in and fought them the guy was skiny but had strength and could fight he had a very skinny boyd but a big big fist lol any way i believe in Somalinimo in that sense assisting each other in Qurbaha.. just do not mention politics he is my friend thought the Merexaan guy but he is also a very loyal Afweynist we always have debates he says u guys started the war and i said u guys started the neptiosism when u guys turned to the Somali airlines into Sade Airlines lol. but to make things serious i believe in Somalinimo on a social level just do not bring in poliitcs thats when i lose my control

[Togdeer]

As an Isaaq man I do believe in somalinimo.
I have love for all my somali people.
Thats why I have friends from every clan darood, hawiye, dir, xamar cad cad...
In fact the only people I am not friends with is DM, because I have never met 1.

Having said that I do not believe in somali unity or somaliwayn.

[Raganimo]

Themightynomad,

You're conflating tol (tolnimo) that manifests itself in the everyday life of the Somali with Somalinimo which is a foreign and nationalized form of the previous term.

Modern Somali nationalism and the concept of Somaliweyn has its roots in Benito Mussolinis 'Grande Somalia' project, later adopted by the British foreign secretary Ernest Bevin.

Somalinimo doesn't transcend class, gender and qabiil. It's a divisive rather than uniting force. Communities who oppose each other will always oppose eachother despite their 'racial, social and linguistic commonalities'.

You yourself seem to be conflating political differences with differences in ethnic identity. You could argue that the Somali nation state was a western concoction, but to state that the concept of a common Somali identity, which transcends tribal bonds, was also a Western invention is quite ridiculous.

Somalis have been intermarrying across tribes before any cadaan person set foot on our lands. Different tribes would fight over grazing land and such yet they would also strengthen tribal bonds with "foreign" tribes through intermarriage, poetry etc.

"Tolnimo" only relates to the relationships that are established within the tol and has no bearing on inter-tribal relations, which were also established and nurtured by our ancestors.

Do not underestimate the significance of sharing a common language and culture. Language shapes one's thoughts and emotions. It's more than just a tool for communication:

”For the linguist Edward Sapir, language is not only a vehicle for the expression of thoughts, perceptions, sentiments, and values characteristic of a community; it also represents a fundamental expression of social identity. Sapir said: "the mere fact of a common speech serves as a peculiar potent symbol of the social solidarity of those who speak the language." In short, language retention helps maintain feelings of cultural kinship."

Language shapes our reality.

Give your ancestors some credit. They did not rely on some cadaan colonisers to forge an identity for them. They had their own sense of identity.

[burcaawi14]

As an Isaaq man I do believe in somalinimo.
I have love for all my somali people.
Thats why I have friends from every clan darood, hawiye, dir, xamar cad cad...
In fact the only people I am not friends with is DM, because I have never met 1.

Having said that I do not believe in somali unity or somaliwayn.

Your display pic is making beesha seem evil

[Raganimo]

judging by the poll the majority of Somalis do not believe in Somalinimo
16% of the dir do not believe in Somalinimo
16% OF The isaaq do not believe in Somalinimo
6% of the darood do not believe in somalinimo
9% of the hawiye do not believe in Somalinimo

The percentages are in relation to the total number of votes which is kind of useless for what we're trying to research here.

But it seems like the Daarood members are staunchly pro Somalinimo while the Dir are the least. I'm guessing that people are conflating Somalinimo with Somali nationalism (Somaliweyn) which explains why many Dir (probably Ciise) and Isaaqs voted anti Somalinimo. It wouldn't explain why many Hawiyes voted anti Somalinimo though. Would be interested to hear what their thoughts are.

[TheMightyNomad]

Themightynomad,

You're conflating tol (tolnimo) that manifests itself in the everyday life of the Somali with Somalinimo which is a foreign and nationalized form of the previous term.

''Tol'' as in the phrase ''Tol wa tolaane'' was used in conjunction in expressing the fact that clans are not something based on blood relations. But Something that is created via intermingling and fusion, which reflects somali pastoral lifestyle.

Soomaalinimo is a Somali word and a Somali construction which articulates the social-cultural-political reality of Somali people. (i.e Being Somali).

Unless you want to try and invalidate the term ''Somali'.

Modern Somali nationalism and the concept of Somaliweyn has its roots in Benito Mussolinis 'Grande Somalia' project, later adopted by the British foreign secretary Ernest Bevin

Greater Somali region(Note not Somalia or Grande Somalia) but ''Somaliweyn'' is a Somali concept birthed out of Somali Self-determination. It is a symbol of Somali self-determination.

As is Modern Somali nationalism has its roots in the darawiish and then later adopted by several somali centered movements (SYL and SNL)

Somalinimo doesn't transcend class, gender and qabiil. It's a divisive rather than uniting force. Communities who oppose each other will always oppose eachother despite their 'racial, social and linguistic commonalities'.

How is it divisive tell me that? Is it something else other than the common empirical realities we share collectively that unites us?

Thats thing Somalis dont oppose eachother on Ethnic basis and have huge amount cultural unity. There is no real religious ,ideological ,cultural or physical differences that creates opposition.

In terms of politics what creates friciton is material, (resources, land and political representation(power).

[theyuusuf143]

I am isaaq and believe Somlinimo, if I am not related to other Somalis what the hell I am doing in Snet. To me Somali is an ethnic group , it's the language me and my people speak . Governance is an other issues, not all ethnic groups share Same country or same political ideology.

[Togdeer]

Thus Somali clan structure is not based on blood relationship but rather it's a simple by-product of the Somali pastorial nomadic lifestyle.

I agree with this. It could also explain why there are different origin stories about the same 'tribe' and the differences between the sub-tribes. I personally believe my tribe is just the coming together of 3 different, unrelated tribes.

Genetic tests have proven that people from the same tribe could have different paternal lineages. I believe that on a sub-tribe level there is most likely blood relations, but the major tribes (Daarood, Hawiye, Isaaq etc) are just confederations that were formed as political alliances.

Talk for your self mate.
Isaaq is no confederation we are a family of 8 brothers, with the same dad.

Ahmed Sheikh Isxaaq (toljeclo)
Ayuub sheikh Isxaaq (Ayuub)
Ibrahim sheikh Isxaaq (Sanbuur)
Ismail Sheikh Isxaaq (Garxajis)
Arap Sheikh Isxaaq (Arap)
Mohammed Sheikh Isxaaq (Cibraan)
Abdirahman Sheikh Isxaaq (Habar Awal)
Muse Sheikh Isxaaq (Habar Jeclo)

[Togdeer]

As an Isaaq man I do believe in somalinimo.
I have love for all my somali people.
Thats why I have friends from every clan darood, hawiye, dir, xamar cad cad...
In fact the only people I am not friends with is DM, because I have never met 1.

Having said that I do not believe in somali unity or somaliwayn.

Your display pic is making beesha seem evil

I am Habar Jeclo
our nick name is the foxes.

[smartyt]

Darod feels Somalia is their project they build it just like Yugoslavia was in the eyes of the Serbs something holy while Croats and Bosniaks never feelt it was their country