Respect for the Prophet vs Freedom of Speech?

[Kamal35]

[quote="Gamadid."]Kamal35,

We pay our respect to a man who takes care of female blood relations in our culture, like the future brother inlaw in other words, me and Basra are cousins and me breaking a long standing tradition of no Gaal intermarriages, I give you the hand of BASRA. You have earned a somali lady owing to your conduct and since you both need no introduction having crossed I suspect the preliminary tell-me-about-you-i-tell-you-about-me period, you have my full permission.

The sooner you come knocking the family door seeking Basra's hand the better. I have been observing you two lovebirds and the aged damsel likes you. She is one helluva sister I am willing to give away to a man who hails from Cordova, The cradle of Modern European Civilization. What say you Mr.Santos? Sorry, I didn't get your name previously.[quote]


Gamadid: Thanx for the invitation, but as far as I know, Basra is happily married and a good and honest girl.

In other hand, in my culture is woman herself who chooses the man she's going to live with, not her father, brother or cousin. Women here are independent and free to love the man they want. It was like this even in the times of the Omeyan Cordova.

PD: I'm from Granada, the last muslim kingdom in Europe (and very proud of it)

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"In the days of Mohammed the people of Mecca and Medina used to indulge in drinking wine as often as an occasion offered itself, so that drunkenness often became a cause of scandal, and of indulgence in a second vice, gambling, which together with wine, incurred Mohammed's condemnation. Tradition has not refrained from describing how Hamza b. Abd al-Muttalib, Mohammed's uncle, in a fit of drunkenness mutilated Ali's camels (Bukhari, Sharb, bab 13; Khums, bab 13; Khums, bab i; Muslim, Ashriba; Trad. 1, 2; Maghazi, bab 12; Abu Da'ud, Kharadj, bab 15). And the commentaries on the Koran relate how Mohammed's companions held drinking parties which caused them to commit faults in ritual prayer (see al-Tabari, Tafsir ad Sura xiv. 44; Muslim, Fada'il al Sahaba, trad. 44; cf. 45; Ahmad b. Hanbal, i. 185 sq.).

The prohibition of wine was not in Mohammed's programme from the beginning. In Sura xvi. 69 we even find it praised as one of the signs of Allah's grace unto mankind: "And of the fruit of palm-trees, and of grapes, ye obtain an inebriating liquor, and also good nourishment". But the consequences of drunkenness manifesting themselves in the way just mentioned are said to have moved Mohammed to change his attitude. The first revelation giving vent to these feelings was Sura ii. 216: "They will ask thee concerning wine and gambling (maisir). Answer, in both there is great sin and also some things of use unto men: but their sinfulness is greater than their use." This revelation, however, was not considered as a prohibition. As people did not change their customs and the order of prayer happened to be disturbed in consequence thereof, a new revelation was issued, viz Sura iv 46 "O true believers! come not to prayers when ye are drunk, until ye understand what ye say," etc. But neither was this revelation considered as a general prohibition of wine, until Sura v. 92 made an end to drinking "O true believers! surely wine and maisir and stone pillars and divining arrows, are an abomination, of the work of Satan, therefore avoid them, that ye may prosper." "

[Gedo_Boy]

It's not that it wasn't in the original agenda, it's that it wasn't the main priority.

Those people were Pagans who didn't know God. One must start with priorities.

Long after the Prohet died, one of his wives said:

"If the Quran started with 'Don't drink' & 'Don't Fornicate', the people would have said: 'We swear to God we will not abandon drink & fornication.' But the Quran & this religion started teaching people about God , about Heaven & Hell, until the hearts were attached to God and they willingly gave it up when asked."



sura Hujurat, aya 7:

And know that among you is Allah's Messenger: were he, in many matters, to follow your (wishes), ye would certainly suffer: but Allah has endeared the Faith to you, and has made it beautiful in your hearts, and He has made hateful to you Unbelief, wickedness, and rebellion: such indeed are those who walk in righteousness;-

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Gedo
You can't paint it any way you want. But the bottom line is, it wasn't initially even condemned and it is probable that, since it was a social norm, Mohammed probably did drink in the pre-revelation days. There is no reason to think he did not.

[Gedo_Boy]

Read the passage below taken from the most widely-read biography on the Prophet (saw):

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Book ... /index.htm


It explicitly says: "He shunned superstitious practices but took an active part in constructive and useful dealings, otherwise, he would have recourse to his self-consecrated solitude. He kept himself aloof from drinking wine, eating meat slaughtered on stone altars, or attending idolatrous festivals. "

If you want a biography written by a Western Islamic scholar, you can also read Karen Armstrong.

I have a shrinkwrapped DVD documentary on the Prophet sitting at home, I can mail it to you if you like, Postage Paid



Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] was, in his youth, a combination of the best social attributes. He was an exemplary man of weighty mind and faultless insight. He was favoured with intelligence, originality of thought and accurate choice of the means leading to accurate goals. His long silence helped favourably in his habit of meditation and deep investigation into the truth. His vivid mind and pure nature were helpfully instrumental in assimilating and comprehending ways of life and people, individual and community-wise. He shunned superstitious practices but took an active part in constructive and useful dealings, otherwise, he would have recourse to his self-consecrated solitude. He kept himself aloof from drinking wine, eating meat slaughtered on stone altars, or attending idolatrous festivals. He held the idols in extreme aversion and most abhorrence. He could never tolerate someone swearing by Al-Lat and Al-‘Uzza. All�h’s providence, no doubts, detached him from all abominable or evil practices. Even when he tried to obey his instinct to enjoy some life pleasures or follow some irrespectable traditions, All�h’s providence intervened to curb any lapse in this course. Ibn Al-Atheer reported Muhammad [pbuh] as saying: "I have never tried to do what my people do except for two times. Every time All�h intervened and checked me from doing so and I never did that again. Once I told my fellow-shepherd to take care of my sheep when we were in the upper part of Makkah. I wanted to go down to Makkah and entertain myself as the young men did. I went down to the first house of Makkah where I heard music. I entered and asked: ‘What is this?’ Someone answered: ‘It is a wedding party.’ I sat down and listened but soon went into deep sleep. I was awakened by the heat of the sun. I went back to my fellow-shepherd and told him of what had happened to me. I have never tried it again."

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Abu Talib was a merchant, and he taught Mohammed the important skills involved with the caravan trade. At least once he took Mohammed with him on the long journey to Syria, and here he had his first encounter with Christianity. After he grew up he was hired by another caravan leader, a business-minded widow named Khadija, to serve as his agent on the expeditions. Khadija noticed several positive qualities about Mohammed; he was intelligent and handsome, impartial in his judgments and totally reliable in all his dealings. Eventually that led to marriage; he was twenty-five at the time, she was forty. The marriage made Mohammed financially secure, and it appears to have been a happy one; while she was alive he took no other wife, though he was allowed to do so.

After the marriage he appears to have made no more long journeys. They had four daughters and two sons, one of whom they named Abd Manif, which means "the servant of the Meccan god Manif"; this suggests that in his early years Mohammed practiced the Sabaean creed of his ancestors. Only one of his children--a daughter named Fatima--lived to grow up.

[Gedo_Boy]

I don't recal Abd Manaf as one of the Prophet's children's names......are you confusing it with Abu Talib?


Khadijah bore all his children, except Ibrahim: Al-Qasim, Zainab, Ruqaiyah, Umm Kulthum, Fatimah and ‘Abdullah who was called Taiyib and Tahir. All his sons died in their childhood and all the daughters except Fatimah died during his lifetime. Fatimah died six months after his death. All his daughters witnessed Islam, embraced it, and emigrated to Madinah.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Gedo,
I have to pull out my autobiography, but he also had a daughter from a concubine he took in combat. I think, but I can't remember for sure, that it was a Jewish woman who's husband was killed after he executed him for betraying their treaty.

[Gedo_Boy]

yeah her name was Safiya

[muslim-man]

Mad kufr,Learn to ask those who know next time instead of embarrasing yourself like you did here

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Gedo
Do you mean the daughter, or the woman?

[Gedo_Boy]

MAD MAC,

I meant the Jewish wife of the Prophet (saw).

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

What was the name of the concubine that bore him a child, do you know? I can't remember.

[Gedo_Boy]

I think you're talking about Ibrahim....



One night in March 630 CE, Angel Gabriel visited the Prophet and addressed him as: "O father of Ibrahim." A few hours later, the Prophet received the news of the birth of his son from his wife Mariah, and the Prophet named him Ibrahim. He was the only child born after the six children from ProphetÂ’s first wife Khadijah. Ibrahim died when he was ten months old....."

The Prophet's letter to Muqawqis, the ruler of Egypt was similar to that sent to Emperor Heraclius, as he was a Coptic Christian. Muqawqis answered to the Prophet (pbuh) evasively. However, he sent a rich present of a thousand measures of gold, twenty robes of fine cloth, a mule, and two Coptic Christian ladies who were held in great respect in Egypt. The young ladies were sisters, Mariyah and Sirin. The prophet gave Sirin to Hassan ibn Thabit, the poet, and he took Mariyah as his wife. The mule was named Duldul and the Prophet rode it in the Battle of Hunain.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Gedo
You're missing one. I'll have to get my biograghy of Mohammed. He had one child from a woman that was taken in battle who was not a wife. I'll find out who it was and get back to you.