Mengistu Haile Mariam Vs. MSB

[rabanam]

Personal opinions mean little. There are thousands of professors with the opinion that Somalia won. I deal with numbers and facts. The numbers have spoken, and it says Somalia scored more points against a superpower, Cuba and Ethiopia.

[yawle]

"Yawle, the Derg killed half a million especially during the take over when all people with skill were hunted and shot. Siad Barre fought rebels seeking support from the outside, Menguste declared war on his nation. Maybe you should try talking to an Ethiopian whose family fled because his father could write?"

Mengistu killed his opposition on ideological grounds. Whereas Afwayne murdered people on clan basis. That is the major difference between the two.

The other difference is, Mengistu left the country before the country became unstable and rule & order went out of hand. He left the country while he was still in control of the capital and surrounding areas and in every city that he lost to the opposition such as Gondar (an Amhra city) his followers disarmed and took orders from the TPLF liberators. In Afwayne's case, he waited and waited eventhough he knew that he was loosing the country and he didn't leave Mogadishu until armed civilians knocked on his door in Vila Somalia. By that time Siyad was chased out of the country, the whole country was lawless and neither the government of the day nor the liberators were in total control. The major blame is upon the dictator who clinged on to power and even organised an armed rebellion after he was ousted from the country.

If you compare the results of the two dictators, one did not destroy a single city even Eritrea's major cities were never destroyed and the other focked up the country. So in the end, the results show, Somalia is focked up because of those wrongs of the dictator of pitting clans against one another and destroying the country to the ground.

[SahanGalbeed]

Luis 1 is funny ... I don't know what he is trying to acheive here .

[zingii]

Luis 1 is funny ... I don't know what he is trying to acheive here .

That his ppl were used by the soviets to fight in a war they had nothing to do with.

[luis1]

Rabanam:There are thousands of professors with the opinion that Somalia won.

Why I can not find anyone on Internet.

Show me the opinions of these professors,I have shown you many somali sources but you dont have any source.

If you can show me one somali source which says Somalia won the war,I will leave this forum at once.

Show me your sources.

I deal with numbers and facts

Which facts?

Show me the facts,the article in Wikipedia says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogaden_War

Following the withdrawal of the SNA, the WSLF continued their insurgency. By May 1980, the rebels, with the assistance of a small number of SNA soldiers who continued to help the guerilla war, controlled a substantial region of the Ogaden. However by 1981 the insurgents were reduced to sporadic hit-and-run attacks and were finally defeated.

SNA and WSLF were defeated in 1981,the article is very clear,now I have shown you my sources show me yours.

Show me your somali books,authors and articles which say Somalia won the war.

Everybody is waiting for your somali sources

[luis1]

This is a challenge for all somalis here:

If someone can show me one,just one somali source which say Somalia won,I will leave this forum at once

There are thousands of professors with the opinion that Somalia won

Tell me some names of these professors.

You only use Wikipedia and Wikipedia says we won yhe war because Somali withdrawal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogaden_War

Date July 13, 1977 - March 15, 1978
Location Ogaden, Ethiopia
Result Soviet military intervention
Somali withdrawal

A huge victory,Somalia won the war and left Ogaden after,that doesnt make any sense.

Well,Somalis I have been waiting for your sources 3 years and nobody here can show me one.Why?
Because there is not such source.

[luis1]

Rabanam I am waiting for your sources and proffesors.

Please this is a question for all the somalis:If Somalia won the war in 1978 as Rabanam says Why there are not sources on Net which support the somali victory,all the sources say Somalia lost the war.

I show many sources about Ogaden War but Rabanam doesnt have one,Who is right?

Why Rabanam doesnt show me any source?

He said:Thousands of proffesors said Ogaden War was a victory for Somalia,well show me their names and their opinions.

Because until now you only say,you are wrong,you lost more tanks but you dont read the end of the article on Wikipidia at it says Somalia lost the war.

He says that you won a war if you have less casualties than your enemy,sorry but only an idiot can say that,because if we accept this point of view Germany defeated Russia in WWII,Germany lost less tanks and planes than Russia and everybody knows that at the end Soviet Union won the war,now you understand why I am saying.

We(ethiopians)could lose more men and tanks than somalis but that is not important because,they have more resources than somalis and they expelled somalis from Ogaden,Somalia could not unify Ogaden and its Army lost 1/2 Air Force and 3/4 of its tanks,the somali army was destroyed too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogaden_War

28 Aircraft[10] (1/2 of Air force)

After 1978,the Somali Army was very weak and it was not a threat to Ethiopia anymore.

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-12042.html

Following Moscow's decision to support Addis Ababa, Ethiopia received massive amounts of Soviet arms. Along with Soviet military advisers, about 15,000 Cuban combat troops also arrived. By early 1978, this aid had turned the tide of war in Ethiopia's favor. By March 9, 1978, when Siad Barre announced the withdrawal of the Somali armed forces from the Ogaden, the Somali military had lost 8,000 men--one-third of the SNA, three-quarters of its armored units, and half of the Somali Air Force (SAF).

For all intents and purposes, Ethiopia's victory during the Ogaden War ended Mogadishu's dream of recreating Greater Somalia.


Rabanam,show me your sources and proffesors,I am waiting for them.

[luis1]

Dr. Megalommatis

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/futurele ... egypt.html


Finally, we have to admit that Somalia lost a war against a Nuclear Superpower and its satellites. This is the only truth. It is disreputable for a Somali not to say it loudly, and not to be proud for having fought against the Soviet Union itself.

[rabanam]

luis1, I deal with numbers and facts, not personal opinions. You deal with personal opinions, not numbers and facts. We are different.

[luis1]

I deal with books,experts and facts and you dont have any of them.

You told me you have thousands professors who say Somalia won the war,show us some names,if you are a historian you must show your sources,we have been talking several days about the topic and you dony have any source or number which prove your point of view.

The authors and historians make history not numbers.

Now show me the names of somali professors who say Somalia won the war.


Please send me an article which prove the victory of Somalia.

[luis1]

The personal opinions belong to expert,why can I not believe them?

Are you telling me all these experts are wrong?

but I dont care what you think about it,the important thing here is the world believes we defeated you in 1978,I am happy for that.


You are the only one.

[rabanam]

luis1, you're in denial. The numbers say Ethiopia/Cuba/Russia lost more, therefore, Somalia won. There you go.

[grandpakhalif]

I can't believe qaldaans and hutus rather support a bantu dictator than a nationalist somali leader that kept these savages intact for 21 years Ina lillahi wa ina ilahi rajicuun. what lack of somalinimo and lack of nationalism. Our country can only led by the noble somalis, Siyaad barre, cabdulahi yusuf.

somali won the war against aid infested ethiopians

[luis1]

Rabanam:luis1, you're in denial. The numbers say Ethiopia/Cuba/Russia lost more, therefore, Somalia won. There you go.

But Somali Army was destroyed and WSLF too,am I wrong?

Answer that question:Was Somali Army destroyed in Ogaden War?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogaden_War

Almost one-third of the regular SNA soldiers, three-eighths of the armored units and half of the Somali Air Force (SAF) were lost

Somali Army was destroyed.

The numbers say Ethiopia/Cuba/Russia lost more, therefore, Somalia won.

But that is stupid if we think like you,Germany won WWII because it had less casualties than Rusia,dont see you are saying is wrong.

Are you a historian or stupid?

[rabanam]

But that is stupid if we think like you,Germany won WWII because it had less casualties than Rusia,dont see you are saying is wrong.

Are you a historian or stupid?

That isn't stupid; it's logical. You don't see me injecting the topic with Germany, Russia and WWII. The fact is, Somalia fought a superpower along with Cuba and Ethiopia, and it inflicted more casualties than it lost. It also destroyed more enemy arms/weapons than it lost. Bear in mind, Russia isn't like weak Cuba or Ethiopia; it was a superpower. Based on those facts, Somalia won. I know it's hard for you to swallow the truth, but I can't change the facts.