Ponder this..

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SultanOrder
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by SultanOrder »

"There is no discovery like self-discovery, and there is no self-discovery like the discovery of the self" - one who longs for it.

Indeed Allaah speaks the truth in the Qur'aan: "Verily, in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest. (13:28)"
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by Navy9 »

Thanks firefly (or should I say Jannahfly :D ).


Perfect,

There are several different selfs that Allah has mentioned in the Quran, do you know them?
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by SultanOrder »

Why don't you tell us, I only know of the lower self and higher self, the nafs and the ruh. Could you be talking about the self that incites to evil and wickedness, the self that submits to allah, the self that is like cattle?
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by Navy9 »

Perfect_Order wrote:Why don't you tell us, I only know of the lower self and higher self, the nafs and the ruh. Could you be talking about the self that incites to evil and wickedness, the self that submits to allah, the self that is like cattle?

Isn't self is nafs? In your opinion, what is the difference between the nafs and the rouh?

Allah almighty mentions 3 different selfs:
1) The self that whispers to do bad things which are totally attracted to this materialistic world.(Surah Yusuf, verse 53)
2) The self that judges and blames itself when it does wrong things (surah AlQiyama, verse 2)
3) The pious self (surah Al Fajr, verse 27)
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by SultanOrder »

The way I have learned, and excuse me if I'm incorrect, but the self is categorized into two: the higher angelic self, and the lower demonic self. The ruh is that pure higher self that is in all of us which delights in the love of Allah and his messenger, submitting to Allah, and is that pure self without the faults of hasid, greed, jealousy, anger, unless they are in for correct reasons. The nafs is that lower self that is the opposite of it, which is ruled by appetites, passions, selfishness etc.

The lower self would be considered the first ayat, the second and last ayat would be considered someone who has overcome the lower and reached his higher self, his ruh.

And the purpose of sufism is to reach that higher self.
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by Navy9 »

When I was undergrad, we had to take a course called philosophic thinking and my professor was a German muslim fella who was Sufi, quite an interesting person and most likely he would have agreed with what you said above. But don't you agree when a person transforms from being bad to good at least goes through three main stages: the bad ass fella who feels good about what he is doing and even at times is proud and brags about his sins, the fella that is now aware of his bad actions & judges it and finally the fella who is in complete submission. But can we compare a very pure self to be as the state of angels? I do not know, we are of a very different composition even though we all aim at the same goal which is attaining Allah's approval!


As for the difference between the nafs and the rouh---I have no idea :D even though i have seen some saying that the rouh is what gives the life to the human body and the nafs (the loving heart & thinking mind) is what directs the human be who they are, and Allah knows best!
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Re: Ponder this..

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Yeah I agree with the person that goes through those stages. But the last stage is if you remember the hadith qudsi of the rasul scw who said
On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said:
Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.

It was related by al-Bukhari.
Navy this great person who reaches this stage of siddiquun is greater than all the angels.

Imam al Hadad in his book "The Book of Assistance" translated by Fons Vitae says
You must observe the obligations and the prohibitions, and increase your supererogatory devotions. For if you do this purely for the sake of God you will attain to the utmost proximity to Him, the gift of love shall be bestowed upon you, and then all your movements and times of stillness will become for and by Him. This is the bestowal of sainthood or even vice-regency [khilafa].... (then he cites that hadith qudsi above and then says)...
See, may God have mercy on you, what this hadith Qudsi contains of secrets and gnoses, and ponder on the fine meanings and subtleties which it indicates. This fortunate servant only reaches that great rank, where everything he likes is liked by God, and everything he dislikes is disliked by Him by virtue of his conforming to what He has made obligatory upon him, and his performing supererogatory devotions in abundance in his wish to draw nearer to Him. So make haste! Make haste, if you are determined to reach the degrees of perfection and wish to attain to the ranks of men. [footnote 39- A 'Man' in Sufi terminology is one who has realized the virtues and become firmly established in sainthood and gnosis.] The path is now clear before you, and the radiance of realization has appeared to you.
We are different from the angels who cannot disobey the command of Allah, but when a human conforms to the will of Allah fully by virtue of his free will, then he is greater than the angels. And may Allah give us the good things in his deen.
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by Enlightened~Sista »

Lil_Cutie.. wrote:Insight into a life of a student at Medinah university :clap:

Who or what are you talking about?
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by Navy9 »

PO,

But there is a point which I am at a stand still, Allah has willed us to have a will, do angels have that same will as we do, if not how can there be comparison between those whom Allah gave the will and those whom He didn't? I am in no position to put one being over the other but we are totally of different matter.


Btw, I am not discussing anything here rather merely sharing a thought!
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by SultanOrder »

An angel and a human, each has a rank with Allah. The best of creation is the Rasul Scw then the Anbiya dhamaantood, then it is the saliihs, then it is the angels. This is what has been revealed to us by our messenger.

Now the way I think you are looking at them is from a philosphical point, like one is a robot that is programmed and the other is well us. They are not fundamentally the same, as if they are made from two different composite material. And I think I understand what you are saying. So what you are asking is can they even be compared. But if you will accept the truth it is this, we can become better than the angels, and we can become worse then the shaydaan. And the comparison is not whether free will or no free will is better, it is who has a higher rank with Allah.
Atleast that is how I see it.
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by Firefly »

Lil_Cutie.. wrote:Insight into a life of a student at Medinah university :clap:
:mrgreen:



Perfect_Order:- Wa-iyyak bro.

Navy9:- :D :up:


"Love is intimacy and being yourself with the one you love. It is when you find no need to lie. It is when you both find sweetness in your silence, and when one talks, the other enjoys listening."
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by Firefly »

"Forgiving someone who has wronged you won't make yesterday's pain disappear, but it will allow tomorrow's happiness to grow."
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by DisplacedDiraac »

''Choose your partner carefully because you will eventually turn into them''..
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by Firefly »

WestLdnShawty:- Jazakallah Kheyr sis. That's an interesting one, definitely food for thought.


"There is indeed a God that hears and sees whatever we do. God is light that is never darkened; and unwearied life that cannot die; a fountain always flowing; a garden of life; a seminary of wisdom; a radical beginning of all goodness. Who has God has all; who has Him not, has less than nothing."
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Re: Ponder this..

Post by Firefly »

"We, ignorant of ourselves, beg often our own harms, which the Wise and Powerful denies us for our own good. God alone fully understands what each of us needs; we make mistakes continually and pray for things which would be harmful to us if we received them. Afterwards we see our mistakes and realize that God is good and wise in not giving us these things, even though we plead ever so earnestly for them."
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