Sufis- Limits to Worship?

[Hyperactive]

Yungnfresh, murax, sadobio advo, ilmo adeerayal you made your point clear inshallah but please rafrain/ignore personal comments.

i would add one thing that fisabillilah and others also made it clear which is there's thikr in quran which is dikr Allah, or what arabic calls tasabii7 but what we saw in the video's posted here far from that which is haraj wa maraj.

no one disagreed that thikr Allah is most. thikrel Allah fil quran or tasaabii7 but dancing and crazy practising isnt from tasawuff even. tasawoff is in origin was : zuhd from meterial in this life and luxery of hayyaat. as evet thing just grew differently than it was originally and ignorent people added many bid'a that isnt even acceptable leave alone to be religion practice.

fisabillilah and patshlah said important point too.

[Hyperactive]

This board is not letting me post my point completely.

I get this message:

SQL ERROR [ mysql4 ]

Data too long for column 'post_text' at row 1 [1406]

An SQL error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact the Board Administrator if this problem persists.

you need to rewrite it in your Microsoft Word.
some copy and past this board doesnt except it.

[The_Emperior5]

As for the practise of muslims gathering Together for group Dhikir Or the invocation of allah there is mutch evidence of its praisewortiness in the sunnah aside from the many koranic verses and the hadith
establishing the general merit of dhikr in every state such as the hadith related bye bukhari

Truly, allah has angels going about hte ways, looking for people of dhikr and when they find a group of men invoking allah , they call to one another. Come to what you have been looking for And they circle around them with there wings up to the sky of this world

Now share with us this new cilmi That Dhikir on your own is oke while there are hadith that says allah loves people that come to gether and Doing dhikr



The Ethiopians danced in front of the Messenger of allah ( Allah bless him and give him peace) Dancing and saying in there language Muhammad is a Righteous servant The Prophet ( Allah bless him and give him peace Said What are they saying And they said Muhammad is a Righteouse Servant Musnad aL imam Ahmed 6 vols . Cairo 1313 1895 repring , Beirut : Dar sadir. n.d, 3.152)

Another question why dident the prophet stop these people if they where so wrong
Or is it just me And you guys are the only One who knows what the prophet used to do and what he dident used to do

[Padishah]

Whatever I do, I can't seem to be able to post what I require. It keeps giving me the same error message, even if I write it in Microsoft word.

I do, however, have an article that addresses this very point on the Shadhili Tariqa website, entitled Hadra and the Sacred Law. It has the same proofs that I am using, plus a few more for good measure.

[The_Emperior5]

i had the same problem i just type it all over again

[Murax]

Padiash,

Akhi You do know that it is the understanding of Ahlu Sunnah that in Islam every ibaadah is haraam except for the ones that have a daliil for it therefore the onus is on Yourself not Sadeboi to bring a daleel for any ibaadah You speak of. This is a direct contrast in the affairs of Dunya where everything is halal except for what Allah made haram. We cannot get creative and create our own ibaadat. One big attack against the brothers who try to follow the Salaf minhaj is that they say dhikr is haram. There is a constant barrage of words being put into our mouths. Ofcourse Dhikr is important no doubt about it but what is dhikr? Its an ibaadah right? Then for every ibaadah We have to have a daleel for it. So in the area of dhikr lets ask ourselves one question: How did the Prophet SAW make dhikr? Lets not say 'We don't know' because Aaaisha RA gave us extremely detailed accounts of how the Prophet SAW used to make dhikr. He would fast during the days and pray during the night until His feet had blisters. The companions saw the Prophet doing this and they then started to do likewise. Now us Who do We want to follow and emulate? The Prophet ofcourse so We do likewise. Did the Prophet SAW and His companions sit down in circles and say "Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah" or "Hu, Hu, Hu, Hu, Hu"? No they didn't so anybody who came afterwards and stared such a practice has brought an innovation into the Religion which is NOT ALLOWED. One time Ibn Mas'usd RA after the Prophet SAW died came to the Masjid and saw some people sitting down in the masjid and saying to each other "Sabihillaha mi'a marra" (Make tasbeeh 100 times). Do You think Ibn Ma'sud said "Oh Mashallah You're doing a good thing"? No He refuted them and said the Prophet SAW did not do this so don't do this. Also remember that the best form of dhikr is for us to obey Him. Sa'id Ibn Jubair an Abyssinian Man in the generation of the taabicin who Hassan Al Basri called one of the greatest scholars was asked what is dhikr? He said dhikir is obeying Allah swt in everything because When you obey Allah swt You have shown that You have indeed remembered Him. The Prophet SAW for instance said that there are two words light on the tounge and heavy on the scale "Subhanallahil adeem, subhanallahi wa bi hamdeh". If similar daleels can be made for all these other dubious acts of worship by Suffis then please bring them forth.



All in all alhamdurilah everything has been stated wonderfully by Fiisabeeleah, American Salafi, Sadeboi, Young n Fresh. The only thing these brothers have said is stick to the path laid out by the Prophet SAW in ibaadah and stick to it. When daleels were bought forth false accusations were leveled like "These Salafis are saying all these people will go to jahannam" "They are saying dhikr is haram" and it got to the point of trivial personal insults. Islam is a complete Religion and theres not a lot of room for endless arugements unless one party doesn't wish to accept the truth. The minhaj of Ahlu Sunnah is whenever We have a disagreement We go to Quran and Sunnah, very, very simple.

[FAH1223]

Dhikir

Hadra

It looks fun, I've seen a couple in person, but those are innovations and should be left alone..

[The_Emperior5]

How can one condem making dhikr while standing or standing while making dhikr when allah most hight says those who invoke allah Stadning sitting and upon there sides ( koran 3:191) And Aisha ( Allah be well pleased with her ) said The Prophet ( Allah bless him and give him peace) Used to invoke Allah at all of this Times ( saxiix al muslim 1.282:373} And if dancing is added to this standing, It may not be condemned , as it is of the joy of Spirutual vision AND ecstasy , and the hadith exist In many sources such as Musnad al imam Ahmed 1.108, With a sound of hassan Chain of transmission that Jacfar ibn abi thalib danced in front of the prophet of allah Bless him and give him peace) When the Prophet told him , You resemble me in looks and in Character. Dancing from the happiness he felt from being thus addressed and the Prophet did not condemn him for doing so This being a basis for the legel Acceptability of the sufis Dancing From the joys of the ecstasies the Experience ( al hawi li al fatawi . 2 vols . cairo 1352/1933-34 reprint Beirut :dar al kutub al ilmiya


To my knowledge Jacfar ibn abu thalib is Ahlu bait Is al asxaabii

makes perfect sence

[Shirib]

I had to post this again, it is that good

[The_Emperior5]

tnx shirib i can feel the joy
Alla anigu nabbiga salligisa iyo amaantiisa jeceliya

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

"Say: Shall We tell you the greatest losers in respect of (their) deeds? Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds." [18:103-104]

"And We shall turn to whatever deeds they did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust" [25:23]


About an ayat "and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall assign no weight for them." Ibn Kathir said it means 'We will not make their Balance heavy because it is empty of any goodness.' Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said: A huge fat man will come forward on the Day of Resurrection and he will weigh no more than the wing of a gnat to Allah. Recite, if you wish: "and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall assign no weight for them." It was also recorded by Muslim.

[The_Emperior5]

this one is good 2 Shirib

We used to do this one in sudan all the time

salaam calayk

[Shirib]

Just wondering can u do the whole Hadra thing if u don't think u will be getting good deeds from it?

[*Nobleman*]

Wow the one advo posted amazed me. Is that video a spoof or do people actually beleive that it is a form of worship.



Also one Sheikh i know, one of the most respected somali sheikhs in London, was telling me how he was sufi back in the day and how Allah had mercy on him to direct him to the right path away from bidca and to the path of sunnah.

[The_Emperior5]

You will get lots of good deeds from it basicaly u name allah so many time and his messengers and the prophets that the malig on your shoulders are writing every good thing down



listen to the end of this he says soo many time laa ilaaha ilalah