Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

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Somaliweyn
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by Somaliweyn »

The Ranking

We have presented a genuine objective analyses of the two different periods in Somalia:

-Civilian government 1960-1969
-Military government 1969-1991.

In those two periods there were 3 president, 2 of them belong to the civilian government and are:

-Adden Abdulle Osman, the first elected President who served 7 years, and left the scene with honour as first African leader to step down.
-Abdirashid Ali Sharmarke, the second elected President who served 2 years, and was tragically assasinated before he could shine on the political scene. A young and promising President who if he lived longer could have changed Somalia for the better.


The other president was in the second period, namely the military government.
-Siad Barre, who amazingly came to power been part of the military junta. Also, he was not elected to power but by ingeniously playing out his competitors seized power.


Now the ranking of them based on their impact on Somalia's economy, politics and society.

From the previous objective analysis it becomes clear without doubt that the civilian government had positive impact on Somalia and in this sense was the lesser evil compared to the desastrous military rule which succesfully destroyed Somalia's economy, politics, society and military.

The ranking is as follows:

1) Image
Not surprisingly it is the first President Aden Abdulle Osman.

2) Second President Abdirashid Ali Sharmarke, if only he lived longer we would not witness the 21 years of brutal rule.

3) The self-proclaimed leader of the Military regime: Siad Barre. From giving the people high promises (end to clannism, nepotism, corruption, Somalia been self-reliant, strong bla bla) to uttering selfish words like (I came by the gun, I'll leave by the gun, or I came when there was nothing I will leave nothing behind). If only he took the example of President Adden Abdulle Osman and left power peacefully in 1986 we would worship him as the paramount National Hero, but his power-greed ruined him and the country. :down:
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by luis1 »

Somaliweyn:Siad Barre had to secure his wide support and launched a premature invasion of Ethiopia to gain the Ogaden region, this turned disastrous despite the courageous effort of Somali soldiers.

So you are accepting that Somalia lost the Ogaden War.
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by Somaliweyn »

Luis1,

Ofcourse Somalia lost the war, we had to face an alliance of Soviet client-states: Cuba, Yemen, Libya, Ethiopia.......and Soviet weapon arsenal.
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by luis1 »

But dont forget Somalia could win that war,but Barre trusted in Carter,that was a huge mistake.. :evil:
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by Voltage »

Somaliweyn wrote:The Ranking

Finally!

And his answer is:

*Drum Rolls*
Somaliweyn wrote:The ranking is as follows:

1) Not surprisingly it is the first President Aden Abdulle Osman.

2) Second President Abdirashid Ali Sharmarke

3) Siad Barre

......Voltage's respond to be continued-
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by Voltage »

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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by Somaliweyn »

Sadeboi,

Can you refute the arguments (complete with sources) made so far? Or is it now your turn to giggle like Voltage?
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by S-D-M »

The debate is not going to go any where as long as both parties are not admitting to the truth.

For me comparing the two men is like comparing Mahmud Abas and Yasser Arafat.

Whether Siad Barre was bad or good the dude hold to Somali for 21 years and during his ruling (the first 12 years) Somali was one of the most powerful countries in Africa.



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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by Twisted_Logic »

SW,

They will regroup and go back to the drawing boards. But they will eventually come back. So, let's wait patiently :lol:
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by S-D-M »

Twisted_Logic wrote:SW,

They will regroup and go back to the drawing boards. But they will eventually come back. So, let's wait patiently :lol:

Who is we? The whole argument died there fella. Basically you proved that you are arguing against Barre for a simple reason. His qabiil.


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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by luis1 »

I think we must try to understand each other,we must not fight.
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by Somaliweyn »

Sadeboi,

I will not adress your counter-arguments by going to different topics while the debate is in this topic. I fully know your intention of distorting my words, why else would you quote me in other topics and adress my arguments in other topics while all that I said is in this topic :?:

Be a man, and raise your points in the debate were it belongs.
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by Somaliweyn »

Alluring wrote:

In reality, Aden Cadde and Siad Barre were never in the same league nor have they accomplished the same fleet. Siad accomplished far more, he built roads, establishments, and brought the forefront of Somali creativity and achievement to light. He instituted educational aspects by making the Somali language a priority.

But as far as achievements it doesn't come close.
He built roads? So did the civilian government! He built establishments, so did the civilian government.

Also, come with tangible prove of his achievements (complete with sources) instead of ''he built roads'' like he is the inventor of roadbuilding :lol:

As for: ''In reality, Aden Cadde and Siad Barre were never in the same league''

I agree, they are in different leagues. Aden Cadde is in the league of founding fathers like Kwame Nkrumah, Julius Nyere etc, while Siad Barre is in the league of generals who seized power through coups and took their country in their downfall because of power-greed, men like Mobutu, Idi Amin, Samuel Doe etc.

A builter cannot be compared to a destroyer :!:
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by Somaliweyn »

Update for the ones who have missed out on the debate,


The whole debate started with a question Rebellion asked, see Quote:
Voltage

Out of this list of somali presidents and dictators which do you think was the best?: Abdirashid Ali Shermake, Aden Cadde, Abdullahi Yusuf, Siade barre?

Voltage then answered with, see Quote:


1. Afbiijo is not in the list. You might as well include Cabdiwasim, Caydiid, Ali Mahdi and the assorted members of the Loser's Club.

Coming from an objective analysis, whether it is because he ruled for 21 years or not, clearly Siad Barre's legacy and his achievements, even just looking at the "good", outweigh the combined achievements of the others multiplied by infinity.

With respect to objectivity my list goes:

1. Mohammed Siad Barre
2. Abdirashiid Ali shermake
3. Aden Cadde

Aden Cadde in his tenure accomplished naught, and I mean naught. But he was a fair and decent man who was also the first modern African ruler to step down democratically.

Abdirashiid Ali Shermake tried to reform the country in order to make it an effective post-colonial African state but under is tenure, not necessarily because it his fault, Somalia became the most corrupt country in the world, over a hundred tribal parties came into existence, he failed to write the Somali script despite the determination by the academics, failed to lobby on behalf of the NFD, and failed to tackle Ethiopia's cross border raids into Somalia. Yet he tried and was also a fair and decent man.

Siad Barre is synonymous with modern Somalia, the good as well as the bad. That really says it all.
This topic was to show that Voltage failed in presenting an objective analyses complete with sources to back his outrageous assertions. Also, this topic has succeeded in presenting a lenghty, objective analysis complete with sources and eventually presented a ranking based on that objective analysis.

Looking at the above quotation from the post of Voltage, can one not rightfully ask were the ''objective analysis'' is? Or does he consider some outrageous claims with no any source to support it as an ''objective analysis''?

Now Rebellion AND Voltage, and let the others be a witness!

Can you verify the above quoted pieces of your posts? Is it complete? Did I miss out on something or distorted one word?

Rebellion, was your Question not about the best President Somalia has ever had?
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Re: Real Talk: Somalia-Two Periods

Post by KingTuk »

Ethiopia will rule the horn of africa
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