What is the real solution for somalia's nonstop anarchy

[Murax]

Those things fueled anarchy. Get it straight my brother. Many people have had civil war and statelessness.

Those ills You speak of are prevelent all over the developing world and about 95% in Africa. However having a Government gives the citizens hope to overcome those issues.

Yup. The question should be how we can build a functioning government and not how we can overcome those mentioned ills. Trying to do the latter before accomplishing the first is like trying to walk before you can crawl.

Bingo.



Voltage,


Somalia will never build a Government on their own. They will have a Government forcibly installed by outside powers that will rule by the gun. Right now though there is not enough of a geopolitical incentive for these outside powers to intervene and signifigantly help one side.

[The_Emperior5]

Its good that no one really here sees the extremist as an option they should be stopped any means necessary, Somali people are not extremist by nature.
TFG can work if u have enough power to get rid of the irhaabis.

[Voltage]

Murax, bro I have no faith in the Somali people and I have no faith in Somali institutions.

The history of SOmali people


From Beginning to Late 1800's ---- stateless, anarchic, lawless parasites of the desert

From Late 1800's to 1960 ---- under the grip of foreign colonialists who tried to impose their values and culture but failed

From 1960 to 1969 ---- under a failed experiment with democracy in which it was proven unevolved Somali lawless tribal culture is not compatible with democracy

From 1969-1991 ---- under a single party state with a supreme commander who held off the inevitable (natural Somali anarchy) for a while

From 1991 to present ----stateless, anarchic, lawless parasites of the desert AND world food aid

GOVERNMENTS are representative of their people and systems. Democracy in the West is representative of Western cultural evolution post-enlightenment and Western culture which revolves around the individual.

LAWLESSNESS in Somalia is representative of the Somali people.

4.5 (institutionalized racism/segreation) in Somalia is representative of the Somali people.

An illiterate president and an illiterate Speaker of the House in Somalia is representative of the Somali people.

Even if a government is imposed, Somalia will need baby sitters otherwise it will naturally fall down under the pressure of the illiterate, ignorant, retrograde Somali tribal culture that has never known and never developed cultural institutions that favor central leadership and fealty to a central leader.

[The_Emperior5]

Voltage don’t lose hope sxb

[Twisted_Logic]

Voltage don’t lose hope sxb

Voltage is the classical extremist. He always takes the absolute end of anything. He is either 100% against something or 100% for something. The word moderation doesn't figure in his thinking

[The_Emperior5]

His location

Location: In Rome; lobbying for recolonization.

[dawwa9]

For once I agree with Voltage , Somalia is a lost cause. We as diasporans should just forget about that place ever existed

[Voltage]

Guys am I lying or am I not lying?

The reality is all these things people waste their time on (peace conference, warlords, anarchy) are the SYMPTOMS wallahul cadiim.

The disease is unevolved Somali tribal culture which is the foundation for Somali nationhood----its people, its state, its institution, its political system, ETC.

[Twisted_Logic]

Guys am I lying or am I not lying?

The reality is all these things people waste their time on (peace conference, warlords, anarchy) are the SYMPTOMS wallahul cadiim.

The disease is unevolved Somali tribal culture which is the foundation for Somali nationhood----its people, its state, its institution, its political system, ETC.

Any country that has no history of centralized government, will inevitably face the same situation as Somalia. Afghanistan is a good example.

The trick is critically analyzing the situation and finding ways to diminish some of the problems that plague our country and this is where Somalis are at fault.

But I am hopeful that democracy and enlightened moderation will be the future of the Somali people.

[Voltage]

Democracy is the worst option for Somalia. Democracy is for an individual minded people who vote based on ideas and values.

Introduce democracy and its bureacracy to Somalia is like gas to a fire. Somali tribal culture which respects no central authority beyond the power of clan will need to go under an evolution before dabbling with democracy.

Don't you study politics? Look at the history of Europe, no one "imposed" Democracy on their unready cultures. Their cultural revolution and evolutions led to democracy, whether from the French or the Magna Carta in England or elsewhere.

Somali culture will need to evolve to the point no one looks to clan as the state and security before dabbling in democracy where they can vote as individuals based on their values and positions on issues of the day.

[Murax]

Murax, bro I have no faith in the Somali people and I have no faith in Somali institutions.

Neither do I, and neither does any Country in the world but thats not he point. A think a strongman will be imposed on Somalia at some point in time. The only difference is this strongman will dance to the tune of the West. My point is, they will be beat into submission by SOMEBODY When the time is right

[Voltage]

I am glad I learned all of this as a young man. It just saved me from wasting my life.

There was a point when I was planning on sacrificing my life to help Somalia. Now you won't even catch me dead near a Somali Students Association meeting at my school meeshaan ka taaganahay.

[Twisted_Logic]

Democracy is the worst option for Somalia. Democracy is for an individual minded people who vote based on ideas and values.

Introduce democracy and its bureacracy to Somalia is like gas to a fire. Somali tribal culture which respects no central authority beyond the power of clan will need to go under an evolution before dabbling with democracy.

Don't you study politics? Look at the history of Europe, no one "imposed" Democracy on their unready cultures. Their cultural revolution and evolutions led to democracy, whether from the French or the Magna Carta in England or elsewhere.

Somali culture will need to evolve to the point no one looks to clan as the state and security before dabbling in democracy where they can vote as individuals based on their values and positions on issues of the day.

The idea that rule by the people, for the people and by the people can never be a bad option, let alone the "worst option"

Somalia's experimentation with Democracy was in many ways successful and presents a clear hope that democracy can work in our country.

Anytime, you have a country with illiterate and impoverished majority, the probability that manipulation and corruption will creep in show their ugly face is real. This however wasn't unique to Somalia. The biggest democracy in the world, didn't have a mature democratic system till the early 1990s and still is plagued with corruption, social manipulation, injustice and acute imbalance between the wealthy few and the overwhelming majority of impoverished.

Under democracy, Somalia was politically stable, major political decisions were being made through consensus agreement, and the country was growing rapidly. The imposition of socialism and the idea of one-man rule, sowed the seeds of nepotism, hatred, animosity, division, and eventually led to the collapse of the Somali State.

Only through education and justice will Somalia take a path of prosperity and progress. The most damaging thing one can do, is to argue that the Somali people don't deserve a representative government and that their destiny is to be ruled by one mad man whether he manifests himself through socialism or religious fanaticism.

ps

Education and a better understanding of the World, led more to the development of liberal democracy in the West more than anything else.

[Twisted_Logic]

Murax, bro I have no faith in the Somali people and I have no faith in Somali institutions.

Neither do I, and neither does any Country in the world but thats not he point. A think a strongman will be imposed on Somalia at some point in time. The only difference is this strongman will dance to the tune of the West. My point is, they will be beat into submission by SOMEBODY When the time is right

Why do you guys go about thinking that Somalia has any relevance in the World Stage or important to the West except in terms of International Terrorism and Humanitarian Crisis?

What do you define as being the West's goals in Somalia other than those 2 listed factors?

[Voltage]

We don't really disagree that much in terms of why democracy is not possible in Somalia today or the ideal of valuing democracy in the future but some contentions here:

Somalia's experimentation with Democracy was in many ways successful and presents a clear hope that democracy can work in our country...

...Under democracy, Somalia was politically stable, major political decisions were being made through consensus agreement, and the country was growing rapidly.

According to this book, Somalia's stint with democracy basically equaled the ruling party raiding the national treasury as if it was their personal check book to buy votes and even controlling the independent Somali police force to do their bidding. Imagine the Democratic Party today ordering the Police on the Republicans!

According to this book, each candidate identified his campaign with subclan leading to the "rise of clannism" (the same one that lead to Somalia's first civil war in 1969 which was immediate stopped by the military coup---let's not get the CIA report now).

According to this book, I.M Lewis the number one English observer of Somalia and no fan of Siad Barre called the parliament under "democratic Somalia" a sordid marketplace.

Twisted, you are a typical ignorant Somali and one of the main reasons Somalia will never see civilization. Even the ones who get a Western education like you would spin all lies to demonize the other based on clan. We all know you are doing this because you viewed Siad's government as Marehan government and believe anything that hurts the 60's legitimizes the Siad government even when it is factually accurate.