It stinks

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Why would Puntland go for independence? We think beyond the temporary and sum up the pros and cons.

We have no real infrastructure to begin with and we have no exploitable resources. After independence we'd probably see a 30% boost to our economy because of the attraction to the new nation by foreign and regional investors but it would be nothing much. Our economy would be small and sterile just like Eritrea, only worse because we have NO infrastructure. And without resources, no one will invest in our infrastructure.

If we got this independence we'd experience a very small payoff but we'd permanently lose our place in Somali society. For us, the civil war is temporary and we know it, but Somalia is forever, and its not worth it to lose our place among Somalis just to have our own empty desert for a country.

99.9999999% of Somalia's resources are in the south, from rivers to oil fields and uranium deposits, its all in the far south. There is next to zero resources in Puntland regions or Waqoyi galbeed in comparison to the south. You would get your own country but it would not be any different than what you have now. Djibouti has been independent and peaceful for generations yet it is a shit hole with severe limitations on its potential due to having no resources and basically depending on its neighbors for survival. That's the future of an independent Somaliland or Puntland. Simply put, for both states, nothing will come out of recognition, absolutely nothing. The land we have won't become gold just because some fat white guy at the UN changes some documents and for that reason we will never seek independence, we don't want to trade something real for petty symbolism.

You need to understand that there is a treasure down south and we see no point in separating ourselves from this paradise over some temporary political situation. Civil wars end, Somalia will be around forever and we don't want to jump ship. I think there is just a fundamental difference between Majerteen/Darood and Isaaq/Reer Waqoyi; we always saw a wider world and we always explored the fringes of the unknown, we can see for miles beyond our vast plains in Mudug far into Xamar and Marka and Kismayo and we want to taste it because we KNOW for certain it is better than what we have and we are never afraid of the risks. Just as my great grandfather left the peaceful surroundings of Nugaal 150 years ago to explore the jungles of Jubbada Hoose the people in Nugaal today also think of the fields of mangoes and maize. Today if you travel in Garowe and Bosaso you will see countless business establishments named after southern towns. We still linger for this paradise and the gold it holds, maybe if you tasted this you would know how we feel about the south.

Maybe you will never understand what I'm saying. To put it simply, we have the shitty side of the country and we'd rather wait it out and share the fruits of the south than split with our empty desert with no certain future. If Mali was attached to Algeria, and Algeria suffered a civil war, Mali would be much better off to wait it out until the situation in Algeria improved because independence would prove no gains for Mali while peace in Algeria-Mali union would bring prosperity and wealth to Malians. If you were a Malian in that situation would you really want to lose access to the beautiful Mediterranean and all the economic power that comes with all Mediterranean nations. I wouldn't. But then again, I'm a critical thinker, I can't say that for the "flag waving" Ictiraafians

You've pretty much summed up my thoughts exactly. I have always thought that an independent Somalilland or Bari would just look like a slightly better djibouti. You're right the south does have the resources and we were blessed with a mountainous scorched piece of earth. The thing is, I would rather get involved and get my hands dirty than wait for peace to suddenly happen in the south (not happening anytime soon). I feel S/L should remain autonomous but still part of Somalia. At the end of the day, the only people that would benefit from a split Somalia is Ethiopia, not the people of S/L, P/L or Somalia.

[Cirwaaq]

MonkTastic

Damn they need to give a job as a political advisor in the Vila Morgan

[The_Emperior5]

You've pretty much summed up my thoughts exactly. I have always thought that an independent Somalilland or Bari would just look like a slightly better djibouti. You're right the south does have the resources and we were blessed with a mountainous scorched piece of earth. The thing is, I would rather get involved and get my hands dirty than wait for peace to suddenly happen in the south (not happening anytime soon). I feel S/L should remain autonomous but still part of Somalia. At the end of the day, the only people that would benefit from a split Somalia is Ethiopia, not the people of S/L, P/L or Somalia.

Ethiopia does not benefit from somalilands independence they fear it a strong somaliland is their biggest fear otherwise they would recognize it long time ago, they think a strong somaliland will claim back the hawd and reserve area

For us we do not really care for the wabi that goes trough the shebelle. region or the bananas the gudhus eat down south,, Somaliland has access to sea it has oil Gass everthing full of resources i say alxamudulilah.

[Cirwaaq]

independence

Idoor make above 90% of the population and you still begging for what is rightfully yours for the taking, it is beyond pathetic Either just surrender this dream or take it by force. Divert of all available funds to military spending, prostitute your nation to a few stronger nations and assault Bossasso and Gerowe merciless. It would very easy to recruit warsans and dhulos to join in on the gang bang if they are left the majority stake holders once the seige is complete.

Get with the program or just put on a pink jalbiib and hold sheik sharif hand.

You are dealing with nomad somalis there is no margin for victory via logical discourse. This is as primative as it is going to get. You had the opportunity to put all your resources behind ina Godanne and Atomic kitten you didnt what next?

Waiting for Santa to deliver it in christmass?

For 20 years you have been sidelined like you have a gold fish memory:

- Establish peace and order and we will review it
- Hold a referendum and we will review it
- Await for a stable government in somalia and we will review it 16 times and counting
- Hold peacefull elections and you are assured recognition... well let us try dual track aproach first

For once stop blaming southern somalis, because they are not in the path of your exit

You need to ask Ethiopia, Kenya and Djbouti For each of them will lose half their territory if they ever support your exit out of somalia.

- OG
- NFD
- AFAR

As for somalis, it is only P.land that wishes to keep you attached to somalia so it can govern a united Hartiland.

[gurey25]

Before we embark on this new policy, we need to make preperation against Ethiopian interferance.
Ethiopia will interfere becuase this is a plan that has a good chance of working..

They will not mind 20,000 + AU troops in Somalia, becuase they know that they will not bring peace and will actually fuel the fire..

How do we neutralize Ethiopia?

You have the US, EU and Egypt+ arab league to convince..
The US and EU will be receptive becuase they dont have a plan and will welcome any new idea.

Egypt is important, even though it will be difficult becuase egyptian foriegn policy has been mishandled for years and they may not know what good for them..

but if you convince them that you are rebuilding a strong somalia they will bite, and the automatically you have most of the arabs and the Saudis onboard...

Eritrea is another one that you need to seduce...
They will drop the alshabab if they believe that a real working TFG 18.0 will happen this time.


This diplomatic exercise will be more difficult than defeating alshabaab.

[Cirwaaq]

Idoor + Idoorlings fundamental flaws include

Pride: In politics you can't be too proud to beg.

Integrity: A trait that limits political innovation.

Lack of politic resolve: "achieve end goal any means".

[gurey25]

The international bodies leave us no choice..

[gurey25]

mind you the goal will always be independance..

I am pretty sure the Somalilands independance will help bring stability to the rest of somalia.

[Cirwaaq]

Karbash the srilankans and when they run south the Koonfurians will be ready for them

[gurey25]

The unity of all somali people can still be achieved but first we need to free the south from themselves.
They need to achieve what we have in Somaliland or at least Puntland.
Then we can build on that and achieve unity somtime 30-50 years in the future, this time with all the points of the star...

You may need to take a step backwards to leap 2 steps forwards and
sometimes disunity leads to a much stronger unity in the future..

[gurey25]

Karbash the srilankans and when they run south the Koonfurians will be ready for them

soory mate but will not do your dirty work for you,
if you want to get the "srilankans" then you need to do it yourself..


They are not a threat to somaliland, just a nuisance..

they are your problem.

[Cirwaaq]

They are not a problem to me so long as we have Marehaan to deal with them. You have 10 times the man power of marehaan and they seem to tickle your testicles everytime you make any progress towards recognition which sets you back 2 steps.

They are extinct south of galkaio and i assure you them roam free in your desert with impunity. In fact they even had the nerve to take by force Laastitty and hold on to it for 3 years.

some Nations pursue recognition and some nations have recognition thrust upon them... (c) Cirwaaq